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D-274...Will I .. Won't I. .?!?
Last post Wed, May 20 2020 by Gabriel Plalame, 21 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Mar 23 2020 11:18
by Carlspost
Joined on Wed, Dec 25 2019, Posts 7

Hi All VSL users,

I am on the verge of buying the D-274 Steinway but just need a little more reassurance. 

I have listened to the demos' and have found one (that is to my ears) the perfect sound for what I want.

On the page https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Pianos_Bundle/Concert_D#!Demos I particularly like the Chopin Etude Op 10 no 4 recording.  Is anyone on the forum able to produce a similar sound? 

If so I will buy the software it tomorrow! Is this quality of sound a result of the software only or is there much EQ work done to achieve it? 

I just wanted to make sure.. as I have bought to many pianos that promise so much but just don't deliver without a huge amount of post production sound engineering. 

Thanks!

Posted on Mon, Mar 23 2020 16:51
by MMKA
Joined on Tue, May 22 2012, Posts 358

Hi, a great thing about this piano are the many microphones. And yes, you have to experiment a little with the microphones to find your ideal sound. But you don't need to do all kind tricks to get a good, beautiful natural Steinway sound. I don't have the opportunity right now to figure out the sound of op. 10 no 4, but I'm sure you will get it just by mixing a little with the microphones. When you can afford it, I think, it would be a good choice to buy the full version. The added microphones of the full version have a great added value in sound.

Posted on Mon, Mar 23 2020 16:58
by Lucy
Joined on Sun, Nov 26 2017, Posts 32

I have the Steinway full version, it's astoundingly good, and with all those mic postions you can surely get the sound you want. Maybe just roll off a little of the bass end for Chopin's Etudes. I'm sure you wouldn't regret buying it.

I am in no way affiliated with VSL :)

Posted on Tue, Mar 24 2020 10:40
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11892

Hi Carlspost, 

All the piano demos were made with the factory presets, maybe  slightly tweaked by our composers. 

In the case of the Chopin Etude Op 10 no 4: I checked, and it was the Concert Room-Mix preset that comes with the Standard Library. 

Best,
Paul

Paul attached the following image(s):
ChopinU0020EtudeU0020OpU002010U0020noU00204.jpg (210kb) downloaded 26 time(s).

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Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Mar 24 2020 10:50
by Carlspost
Joined on Wed, Dec 25 2019, Posts 7

Thank you Paul,

So from what you are saying I can be assured that the Chopin Etude Opus 10 No 4 demo is not one that has had extra post rendering EQ work done. 

If this is what I can expect from using this particular preset (with slight tweaking) then I am certainly impressed!

Quick question re standard vs full.. do they both have the same amount of velocity layers? If so - how many?

Thank you again!

Posted on Tue, Mar 24 2020 12:53
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11892

Hello, 

Yes, no additional EQ-ing / Mastering there. 

Standard / Full contain the same amount of velocity layers, the only difference is the additional microphones you get wth the Full Library. 

That's up to 70 velocity layers for each key for the D-274. 

Best,
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, May 14 2020 11:00
by Carlspost
Joined on Wed, Dec 25 2019, Posts 7

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

Hi Carlspost, 

All the piano demos were made with the factory presets, maybe  slightly tweaked by our composers. 

In the case of the Chopin Etude Op 10 no 4: I checked, and it was the Concert Room-Mix preset that comes with the Standard Library. 

Best,
Paul

Hi Paul,

OK..Here is the situation. I have just bought  and downloaded the Steinway D-274  (standard) . From your reply to my previous question I am lead to believe that  the Demo of  the Chopin Etude Op 10 no 4: by Guy Bacos was produced using a default setting of the Steinway D-274 . (Concert - Room Mix) . However, After loading a midi file (same etude) I am only able to achieve a very different result. I realise that there are velocity curves to consider etc but I dont believe that this  would result in such a different outcome.  I have based my purchase on the fact that the demo was indicative of the "out of the box" capability of  the software.- As I indicated in my previous communication , I have been let down too many times by virtual pianos that promise one thing but deliver another. Please listen to the following  uploaded clip of what I mean - and I would appreciate your reply outlining how I would achieve the same (or remotely similiar result) using the same default settings as per the Guy Bacus example on your website. Here is the link https://youtu.be/c_MiC_i1SWk   My version  starts at 17 seconds, Thank you. 

Posted on Thu, May 14 2020 11:15
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 11892

Hi Carlspost, 

I have attached screenshots of Guy's settings for that piece. No changes on the EDIT Page. 

Hope that helps!

Best,
Paul

File Attachment(s):
SY_Pianos_Play.jpg (362kb) downloaded 24 time(s).
SY_Pianos_Mix.jpg (371kb) downloaded 19 time(s).

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Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, May 14 2020 11:37
by Carlspost
Joined on Wed, Dec 25 2019, Posts 7

Hi Paul, Thank you for your quick reply.

Did you listen to the link I attached?  https://youtu.be/c_MiC_i1SWk

I have triple checked that my settings and they are precisely the same as those you have supplied. However, the question still remains – Why does the result differ so drastically??

To be honest I don’t have the patience to go through the process of buying yet another software ( and awaiting shipment of the eLicenser etc etc)  just to find that I have once again I have bought  another virtual piano that has been misrepresented on the retailers website.

I am happy to send you my midi file for you (or Guy Bacos) to produce a result that is at least similar to that featured on the VSL website.

Please let me know if there is something that I may have missed… However like I said my setting’s are in line with those you have provided.

Regards,

Carl

Posted on Thu, May 14 2020 12:35
by MMKA
Joined on Tue, May 22 2012, Posts 358

Just a thought (I understand your feelings about this). Could it be, that the overal attack of Guy is softer, or the keyboard of Guy is responding softer on a attack. You could try to diminish the midi sensitivity. Good luck!

Posted on Thu, May 14 2020 17:55
by Guy Bacos
Joined on Sun, Jan 16 2005, Quebec, Canada, Posts 1986

Hi Carlspost,

I opened the Chopin op 10 no 4 Étude file, I'm affraid I don't understand, I played it from my sequencer and it's the same as the mp3 on the website. Am I missing something? The only thing I did was increased the volume. 

 

Guy

Posted on Thu, May 14 2020 18:05
by Guy Bacos
Joined on Sun, Jan 16 2005, Quebec, Canada, Posts 1986

I just saw the video you sent,  that is stange, let me see what could be the issue.

Posted on Thu, May 14 2020 18:24
by Guy Bacos
Joined on Sun, Jan 16 2005, Quebec, Canada, Posts 1986

I may see what's going on. What I'm hearing is the Concert-Room-Mix preset, however, in my version, the sound is drier and cleaner, which is what you like. I have a feeling that something in the midi file transfer didn't transfer correctly. Click on Concert-Room-Mix preset and manually lower the Room-Mix fader to -7.2. 

Posted on Fri, May 15 2020 10:04
by Carlspost
Joined on Wed, Dec 25 2019, Posts 7

Thank you, Guy for your input.

I really appreciate your response and am very happy to report that your suggestion of that minor adjustment has really transformed the sound to a very comparable result.

I am relieved that I the D-274 is a piano that lives up to its name. Like I said earlier, I have been mislead in the past by other software that really does not produce the promised result. 

 

However, I am extremely impressed by the D-274 and am more and more surprised by its ability to produce a realistic sound. It really leaves everything else behind!

Much appreciated.

C

Posted on Sat, May 16 2020 06:13
by Guy Bacos
Joined on Sun, Jan 16 2005, Quebec, Canada, Posts 1986

Welcome, glad that solved it. So many possibilities just by tweaking the mixer faders, worth playing around with them.

Posted on Sun, May 17 2020 17:51
by Matte
Joined on Sun, May 10 2020, Posts 5

Hello everybody,

May anyone tell me if the sympathetic resonance feature of the Synchron Steinway works properly, please? Unfortunately it is not possible to listen to that via the pubblished demos and I would like to know that before purchasing.

Thanks 

Matteo

Posted on Mon, May 18 2020 07:29
by hazend_18867
Joined on Mon, Jan 02 2006, Posts 12

Hi Matteo,

The silent key function is currently not implemented. You can find out your self: try to press a key on your keyboard without triggering a sound in any of the VSL piano's. Paul wrote that it is on VSL's to do list. Nine months ago he answered me the same, adding that the issue had a low priority because only 5 people had asked about it. Now there are 7 people asking. I doubt that this is an interesting number for VSL. All we can hope for is that more customers ask for the silent key function.

Al the best Roeland

Posted on Mon, May 18 2020 10:51
by buz1984
Joined on Tue, Nov 26 2019, Posts 4

I'm surprised how little I miss the resonance.  It wasn't long ago everyone was wondering why virtual pianos felt nothing like pianos, and sympathetic resonance became a high-demand feature.

Yet here we are in 2020 with the best instruments not even bothering to use it.

Of course it'll be very welcome if it does reach VSL's standards and show up one day.

Posted on Mon, May 18 2020 18:49
by bbelius
Joined on Sat, Mar 14 2015, Posts 688

Hi buz,

I'm not sure if I got you right, but in case you miss the sympathetic resonance feature, please check the top-right corner where you can enable it :)

Best, Ben

Ben
Technical Support - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, May 20 2020 08:50
by Matte
Joined on Sun, May 10 2020, Posts 5

Hi Ben, I have purchased the Steinway and tested it. Unfortunately the feature called "Sympathetic resonance"  does not work as sympathetic resonace would and destroys the sound naturalness. Therefore I believe it is not usable. 

Matteo

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