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NEW: Synchron Bösendorfer Imperial
Last post Mon, Jul 06 2020 by Paul, 66 replies.
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Posted on Tue, Jun 02 2020 13:05
by Gamma1734
Joined on Sun, May 17 2020, Posts 12

You can decrease the release sample level by a knob in the right page. When completely deactivating it, it sounds more like the Vienna Imperial, more crisp and dry. That effect goes completely away then. I attach a little chromatic scale playing. It's just loading the instrument, putting only Mid1 and Mid2 up at the same level, loudness normalizing it. That's all.

I .. think I can hear what you are talking about but it doesn't bother me personally when playing.

File Attachment(s):
chromatic_mid1_mid2.mp3 (1,180kb) downloaded 44 time(s).

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Posted on Tue, Jun 02 2020 23:03
by VP1
Joined on Sun, Jan 12 2014, Seattle, Posts 7

Maybe Mid1 and 2 cancel each other out in that example?

In this clip, everything is off apart from Mid1 soloed with no panning. You can hear the notes wandering from left to right, which I think is probably unintentional.

File Attachment(s):
PanBug.mp3 (686kb) downloaded 24 time(s).

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Posted on Wed, Jun 03 2020 22:41
by Gamma1734
Joined on Sun, May 17 2020, Posts 12
Oh! I immediately heard it! With only this microphone it is indeed quite distracting! Yes then apparently mic 1 and 2 are supposed to work together. I can live with that, I don't see a reason right now to specifically use only this mic. However, it is indeed stramge that the panning occurs at this very discrete point and so radically. Not sure but I would almost also call it a bug ..
Posted on Fri, Jun 05 2020 00:27
by Steve Martin
Joined on Sat, Sep 17 2005, Queensland, Australia, Posts 536

Hi Paul,

 

I'm very excited - just wanted to let you know,  I've just purchased the standard library of the new piano.

Can't wait to try it out!

thanks,

Steve

Posted on Fri, Jun 05 2020 19:52
by cuzzinlouie
Joined on Sat, May 04 2019, Posts 9

Hi everybody,

I've recently bought the Bosendorfer and I quite like it.

I am however pretty disappointed by the pretty distracting panning issues I am hearing on the Mid1 (extreme), but also on the Condenser and Ribbon to a much lesser extent.

Other than that, while this piano sounds wonderful, it too suffers from an unnaturally quick and somewhat clinical sounding note decay, lack of sympathetic resonance and silent key, just like all the pianos in the Synchron collection. Not to mention the lack of a velocity curve control which, for such an expensive VSTi, is quite disappointing, to say the least.

Unfortunately, the best microphone in my opinion is the Tube, which does not come with the standard version. So I pretty much paid the full (introductory) price for one single microphone.

I don't expect the note decay to be improved (would be a welcome surprise though), and the lack of sympathetic resonance and silent key are being discussed in another thread, but I would like someone from VSL to acknowledge the panning issues and to hopefully tell us that a fix is in the works.

 

Thank you and stay safe

Posted on Sat, Jun 06 2020 20:28
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12053

Hi, 

It's all about choice 

For the Bösendorfer Imperial, we have decided to add more stereo width with the Mid 1 Mic, compared to Mid 2. If you want to limit the stereo width, you can always do that with the included Power Pan. 

In general, and because it's another saturday night in front of my computer:
We're REALLY happy to hear all the input from all you piano-enthusiasts. We know where you are coming 

If every feature / bug fix was a matter of minutes, all our lives would be MUCH better, I guess. Just saying / wishing for a feature does not make it magically appear. Unfortunately.  

In the real world, feature additions and bug fixes often take longer, needs to be tested and documented. 

We have learned that promises are counter-productive for both our developers and user, so we usually announce features and fixed when they are ready for the public. 

I know you understand, and I hope it will help you to have a little patience 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, Jun 06 2020 21:31
by VP1
Joined on Sun, Jan 12 2014, Seattle, Posts 7

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post
It's all about choice 

For the Bösendorfer Imperial, we have decided to add more stereo width with the Mid 1 Mic, compared to Mid 2. If you want to limit the stereo width, you can always do that with the included Power Pan.

Hi Paul,

It's not the width of the Mid1 mic - it's the fact that it doesn't pan consistently from left to right. It jumps around quite substantially from left to right between octaves and also between some individual notes. Just play a chromatic scale using only Mid1 and you'll see what I mean - or take a listen to the clip I posted above.

I don't think this is by design? It wouldn't make any sense. I'm assuming it's a bug.

File Attachment(s):
PanBug.mp3 (686kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

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Posted on Sat, Jun 06 2020 21:33
by cuzzinlouie
Joined on Sat, May 04 2019, Posts 9

Thank you for the reply, Paul.

Regarding the Boesendorfer Mid1 microphone, I am not complaining about the stereo width, but about the fact that the notes are randomly jumping from left to right in the stereo field. With headphones on and with only Mid1 loaded, simply run a C major scale up and down. I can provide you with with a midi file, but I don't think this is needed since the panorama issues are very obvious.

Regarding bugs, wishes or feature requests, I honestly consider that everyone on this board has been pretty patient and understanding, it's just that it's been a year and a half since the Concert D has been released, and we have yet to get a clear answer. We had a few replies stating that the sympathetic resonance and the silent key are not considered priorities, or that it's even been decided to leave these out, but I need to remind you that the sympathetic resonance is not a feature request. Moreover, I don't think there are many VSTi pianos on the market that do not have this feature. The same goes for the silent key and velocity curve control. These are basic yet important features and I am really having a hard time accepting that the most expensive VSTi pianos on the market do not have them.

There's been a "Sympathetic" control on the interface since day one, it's just that it really does not do what it's supposed to do. Not even close. The same behavior has been carried over to the CFX, Bluethner and the two Boesendorfer.

Nobody has asked for over night, magical fixes. It's been a while though.

I personally still have patience, but it would be nice of VSL to at least acknowledge the bugs and confirm that they are being worked on. An ETA would be nice too.

Thank you

Posted on Sun, Jun 07 2020 08:11
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12053

Hi, 

Thanks for the additional explanations, I can hear what you mean. 

The mic signals have not been manipulated, but we will look into the Mid 1 again. 

Silent key, velocity editor and improved sympathetic resonance calculation is on our list. Unfortunately I cannot give you an ETA. 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Jun 07 2020 09:22
by cuzzinlouie
Joined on Sat, May 04 2019, Posts 9

Thank you

Posted on Sun, Jun 07 2020 10:42
by VP1
Joined on Sun, Jan 12 2014, Seattle, Posts 7

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the additional explanations, I can hear what you mean. 

The mic signals have not been manipulated, but we will look into the Mid 1 again.

Thanks Paul,

To be clear, this also affects Mid 2.

To test, load only Mid 1 or Mid 2, make sure the Power Panner is neutral (Center C, Width 100%, Balance C) and play a chromatic scale up the keyboard (ideally wearing headphones).

Some examples:-

On Mid 1 C4-C5 are panned slightly left, C#5-B5 panned right, C6-F6 left, F#6 right, G6-B7 left, C8 right. There are problems in the lower register too, but it's easier to hear the higher notes.

On Mid 2, it's most obvious B5-C6, F6-F#6-G6, B7-C8. 

I suspect it's just that the L&R Mics got mixed up in some places when the samples were mapped across the keyboard.

Hope this helps!

Posted on Sun, Jun 07 2020 12:12
by Steve Martin
Joined on Sat, Sep 17 2005, Queensland, Australia, Posts 536

Hi Paul,

please don't worry about answering this question that was here before, I hope you don't mind that I deleted it, as, I decided on doing something else instead.

 

best,

 

Steve

Posted on Tue, Jun 23 2020 00:55
by Steve Martin
Joined on Sat, Sep 17 2005, Queensland, Australia, Posts 536

Hi everyone,

I have the full version of the Bosendorfer. My computer is having struggles with it though. It plays well, but then when I'm adding large chords and the sustain pedal, I'm getting drop outs and clicks etc.

I have a Intel® Core™ i3-8100 Processor6M Cache, 3.60 GHz, and 24 gigs of ram. Maybe this processor is not fast enough? I'm just not sure.

I tried it also through the keyless vienna ensemble 7 tryout. As I have 4 cores, I decided to set it to one thread to see if that helped, but it seemed to be I was still having playback problems.

For the sound, I'm using a focusrite Scarlett solo for my soundcard. It's connected via usb.

I'm not sure what is causing the problem. I do have the SSD connected via an electrically powered usb port tree, and everything seems to be ok.

I would love some assistance if someone can help me here.

 

thanks,

 

Steve

Posted on Sat, Jun 27 2020 17:29
by David B.
Joined on Tue, May 15 2018, Posts 52

The VSL team uploaded a nice video to their Youtube channel of Jordan Rudess playing the Bösendorfer Imperial. How can I get his settings so that my VSL Bösendorfer Imperial will sound like his? Can the VSL team retrieve his settings since they have access to him and I don't? Thanks for the help. Below is the link to the video.

https://youtu.be/2AkEFvO_MIA

God Bless,

David

Posted on Thu, Jul 02 2020 08:11
by Martin
Joined on Fri, Aug 23 2002, Wien, Posts 497

Unfortunately, Jordan doesn't remember.... Here's what he said:

"Oh man – I realize I didn’t save a project for the piece I did. I basically called it up- tweaked the sound to taste and filmed it!!!!"

Best, Martin

Martin Tichy
Marketing Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Jul 03 2020 09:10
by David B.
Joined on Tue, May 15 2018, Posts 52

Originally Posted by: Martin Go to Quoted Post

Unfortunately, Jordan doesn't remember.... Here's what he said:

"Oh man – I realize I didn’t save a project for the piece I did. I basically called it up- tweaked the sound to taste and filmed it!!!!"

Best, Martin

I understand. Thanks for looking into it for me. 

God Bless,

David

Posted on Sat, Jul 04 2020 10:51
by KevinMe
Joined on Sun, May 10 2020, Posts 3

I have to say the update has resulted in a step up in my enjoyment of the Bösendorfer Imperial. I don't properly understand the fixes, the panning issue was one I didn't pick up on but there is something cleaner about the sound after the update

I am however confused, from what I understand and my reading of the lightweight release notes the fixes are for panning issues in the mid mics and removing clicks for certain notes in the close and mid mics at high velocities. It feels like the improvement is more than that to me, are there any other changes or is that it?

I was rating BI a step down from the Vienna Imperial, but now I'd be hard pressed to say which i enjoy more.

They have quite different sounds.

Posted on Sat, Jul 04 2020 11:55
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12053

Hi Kevin, 

Glad to hear that you like the new updates, and our pianos in general!

We took the feedback we received in the introduction period and also took a deeper look, with some mini-adjustments here and there. We only mentioned the most obvious fixes with the Library Update Info, to keep us all from scrutinizing instead of playing. 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Jul 05 2020 11:27
by cuzzinlouie
Joined on Sat, May 04 2019, Posts 9

Originally Posted by: KevinMe Go to Quoted Post

I have to say the update has resulted in a step up in my enjoyment of the Bösendorfer Imperial. I don't properly understand the fixes, the panning issue was one I didn't pick up on but there is something cleaner about the sound after the update

I am however confused, from what I understand and my reading of the lightweight release notes the fixes are for panning issues in the mid mics and removing clicks for certain notes in the close and mid mics at high velocities. It feels like the improvement is more than that to me, are there any other changes or is that it?

I was rating BI a step down from the Vienna Imperial, but now I'd be hard pressed to say which i enjoy more.

They have quite different sounds.

Hi Kevin,

I think I may be missing something.

The panning issues have not been addressed, nor have they been mentioned in the release notes.

Regarding the improvements you are hearing, can you be a little more specific? I am asking because I hear zero difference. Just so my ears don't deceive me, I created a chromatic run in Cubase, at different velocities and bounced the results with and without the update, then did a null test (listen to both bounces at the same time, but reverse the phase on one track).

Other than a few extremely minor differences in the lower registers on a few velocities on the ribbon mic only, and the C2 peaks, both bounces sound absolutely identical, i.e. they null perfectly.

Anyway, looking forward to the panning fixes, as these currently keep me from enjoying this otherwise great sounding VSTi.

Thanks

Posted on Sun, Jul 05 2020 16:56
by David B.
Joined on Tue, May 15 2018, Posts 52

Originally Posted by: cuzzinlouie Go to Quoted Post

I think I may be missing something.

The panning issues have not been addressed, nor have they been mentioned in the release notes...Anyway, looking forward to the panning fixes, as these currently keep me from enjoying this otherwise great sounding VSTi.

Thanks

The panning issue has been resolved. It's resolved by downloading two improved mic samples (mid1 and mid2) to replace the original ones. 

The smaller update files address the clicking issues and whatever else is in the secret sauce the makes the Bösendorfer Imperial awesome! 

God Bless,

David

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