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Synchron Violas Cantabile F3 & F#3 out of tune
Last post Sat, Jul 03 2021 by javajam, 18 replies.
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Posted on Wed, Jun 17 2020 17:07
by javajam
Joined on Sun, Mar 13 2005, Paris, France, Posts 170

Is there a way to apply a particular tuning (fine tuning in my case) to a Synchron Player instance?

I mean I know about the Edit tuning feature but this one applies patch by patch... In VIpro, there's a global tuning feature in Master Settings which applies to all included patches of the instance. Is there anything similar in Synchron Player?

Thanks.

Posted on Wed, Jun 17 2020 19:03
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12754

Hi, 

Yes, the tuning setting on the PERFORM tab affects the whole Synchron Player instance. 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Jun 18 2020 12:08
by javajam
Joined on Sun, Mar 13 2005, Paris, France, Posts 170

Hi Paul, thank you.

I tried something with the Perform tuning but it appears the global tuning was not the problem actually . I'm talking about Synchron Violas.

On Synchron Violas, Cantabile Patch (Long/Soft/Cantabile), F3 and F#3 are out of tune (F#3 even more than F3). Tune is dramatically low.

Please find an attached audio file, C3 chromatic scale, successively Soft/Cantabile/Light Vib & Soft/Regular/NoVib. At the end, octaves F3/F4 & F#3/F#4, Cantabile and Regular again.

File Attachment(s):
ViolaCantabileTuning.wav (20,841kb) downloaded 16 time(s).

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Posted on Thu, Jun 18 2020 15:33
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12754

Hi javajam, 

I'm afraid I can't hear it, and there is also no option to tune individual notes in Synchron Player (or VI Pro). 

One workaround is to work with a second Synchron Player instance that takes care of those 2 notes whenever needed... 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Jun 18 2020 15:43
by javajam
Joined on Sun, Mar 13 2005, Paris, France, Posts 170

Just listen to carefully, the scale starts on C3, the faulty notes are F and F#.
I noticed that on a line featuring D-F#-A. The D/F# major 3rd interval is terrible (and the minor 3rd F#/A too indeed)...
Both F and F# octaves are dissonant on Cantabile patch.

 As checked with a tuner:
- G3 is similar, whatever Cantabile or Regular
- F3: 348Hz (Cantabile) vs 350Hz (Regular)
- F#3: 368Hz (Cantabile) vs 372Hz (Regular).

Posted on Thu, Jun 18 2020 16:17
by javajam
Joined on Sun, Mar 13 2005, Paris, France, Posts 170

Folllowing, here are:

- D3-F#3 line: first with CantabileLightVib, second with RegularVib
- A3-F#3 line: same alternation
- 5th F#3/C#4 chord: 1st & 3rd with CantabileLightVib, 2nd & 4th with RegularVib

It hurts...

File Attachment(s):
ViolaCantabileTuning2.wav (6,059kb) downloaded 32 time(s).

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Posted on Tue, Jun 23 2020 17:03
by javajam
Joined on Sun, Mar 13 2005, Paris, France, Posts 170

Any feedback or expected fix for this, please ?

Posted on Wed, Jul 01 2020 07:42
by javajam
Joined on Sun, Mar 13 2005, Paris, France, Posts 170

Hi Paul,

Can you please give us a feedback about this issue?

Thank you,
Alain

Posted on Wed, Jul 01 2020 09:44
by bbelius
Joined on Sat, Mar 14 2015, Posts 883

We'll come back as soon as possible!

Ben
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Jul 01 2020 14:40
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12754

@javajam: How many are you? 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Jul 23 2020 12:37
by javajam
Joined on Sun, Mar 13 2005, Paris, France, Posts 170

Originally Posted by: bbelius Go to Quoted Post
We'll come back as soon as possible!


@bbelius
Should a fix be expectable for these two notes?

@Paul
Sorry, I don't get what you mean (?)

Posted on Thu, Jul 23 2020 17:05
by Macker
Joined on Tue, Aug 21 2018, London, Posts 276

Javajam, I've put your audio clip into Melodyne Studio 4 to get a reasonably objective look at the pitches. From my experience and many laboratory-type tests using a calibrated external 10-digit counter/timer, I treat Melodyne's pitch detection as accurate only to within about ±3 cents, typically within ±2 cents. Nevertheless Melodyne - carefully used - is a very useful tool and it told me the following about your audio clip:

f4 Vib: -5 cents; f4 NoVib: +5 cents.

f#4 Vib: -14 cents: f#4 NoVib: +5 cents.

So I concur with you about the f#4 Vibrato being too far out of tune, even for a rich vibrato type of articulation which usually can cloak a lot of tuning sins.

Posted on Thu, Jul 23 2020 18:05
by javajam
Joined on Sun, Mar 13 2005, Paris, France, Posts 170

Originally Posted by: Macker Go to Quoted Post

f4 Vib: -5 cents; f4 NoVib: +5 cents.
f#4 Vib: -14 cents: f#4 NoVib: +5 cents.


Hi Macker,

Thank you so much for your efforts, it confirms the respective frequencies I reported on one of my comments a while ago.

Knowing that my instruments are tuned @442Hz (the +5 cents you reported I guess, should be a bit more but the difference only is relevant here), the difference in cents I can calculate from the frequency gap is particularly similar to yours:

F3: 350Hz (Regular) vs 348Hz (Cantabile) = 9.92 cents (your result = 10 cents)
F#3: 372Hz (Regular) vs 368Hz (Cantabile) = 18.72 cents (your result = 19 cents)

Furthermore, rich vibrato tends to go to higher pitch better than to a lower one indeed... And whatever it couldn't be a global 8 Violas low tune.

With global tuning @442Hz, accurate notes frequencies in equal tempered scale are:
F3 = 350.82Hz
F#3 = 371.68Hz

To sum up, F3 is 1/10th tone too low, F#3 is 1/5th tone too low, we're close to oriental scale there...

Best,
Alain

Posted on Thu, Sep 17 2020 15:21
by javajam
Joined on Sun, Mar 13 2005, Paris, France, Posts 170

So, it looks like soon was not possible...

Just to know, should we expect for a fix for this issue or will it definitely stay 'as is' ?

Posted on Fri, Sep 18 2020 12:34
by J.Dnp
Joined on Mon, Aug 24 2020, Sydney , Posts 18

Meanwhile I just purchased the library and waiting for it to finish downloading 😅

But I have faith VSL is working on it

Afterall this is their Main string library. 

cheers 

Posted on Fri, Sep 18 2020 13:40
by javajam
Joined on Sun, Mar 13 2005, Paris, France, Posts 170

Originally Posted by: 149163 Go to Quoted Post
But I have faith VSL is working on it


Who knows... 3 months passed and no reply.

Posted on Fri, Sep 18 2020 21:45
by J.Dnp
Joined on Mon, Aug 24 2020, Sydney , Posts 18

should try email them 

Posted on Sat, Jul 03 2021 14:59
by javajam
Joined on Sun, Mar 13 2005, Paris, France, Posts 170

Great to see that more than one year later, this has just not been even fixed in the last Synchron Strings I update. I'm impressed. :-/

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