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Posted on Sat, Aug 01 2020 15:49
by Sassan
Joined on Wed, Jul 22 2015, Posts 7

Hi,

I am using Digital Performer. I tried to load two instruments on Vienna Synchron Player but I do not understand how is that possible? I prepared everything on my DP like Channel 3-4 for Strings (I know that the Vienna programs sounds is coming from Channel 1-2). Can you please explain it to me how is that possible to load two different instruments on Vienna Synchron Player in the same time? (I found how I can add new Channel and Aux in the Edit part of the Vienna Synchron Player but I can not assign a new instrument to channel two)
Thank you in advance for your help.

Best regards,
Sassan

Posted on Sat, Aug 01 2020 20:47
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 970

Each instance of SY Player load a single instrument. That's where Vienna Ensemble come in. Load that into DP, and multiple SY instrument into that

Finale 25, Sibelius 2018, Notion 6, Overture 5, Cubase 10.5, StaffPad
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Sun, Aug 02 2020 06:47
by Sassan
Joined on Wed, Jul 22 2015, Posts 7

Thank you for the answer but the question is, if this is the only way using Vienna SY player, why DP give us this option adding Vienna SY Player with 16 MIDI channels as well? (not inside of Vienna Ensemble) 
I can prepare this Vienna SY Player with 16 MIDI channels but I can not submit instruments to other channels except channel one ( Out 1-2).

Regards,
Sassan

Posted on Sun, Aug 02 2020 11:46
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 970

16 channels is the standard MIDI port. The host (in this case DP) has no way of knowing how many are available from the VSTi.

Finale 25, Sibelius 2018, Notion 6, Overture 5, Cubase 10.5, StaffPad
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Sun, Aug 02 2020 16:45
by Macker
Joined on Tue, Aug 21 2018, London, Posts 120

Sassan, you can indeed add any instrument Patch from any of your Sy libraries to whatever is already loaded in the Sy Player, or build up your own new multi-instrument structure of patches starting from an empty Sy Player. Of course you can then save the result as a User Preset.

There is no way of adding a complete instrument Preset (Factory or User) to whatever is already loaded. However, (though I haven't tried this yet) I think it may be possible to copy one (or more?) dimension branch structure from one Sy Player, then paste it into an appropriately-positioned newly-added dimension slot in another Sy Player.

In Sy Player, routing or re-routing the audio of each patch is done by selecting the actual patch slot (which has the actual audio sample) in the dimension structure, then in the Sy Player's Edit Tab, in the last item in the list of Options - shown as "Mixer Output" - selecting which Sy Player mixer strip the patch's audio is to pass through. Prior to this action you can add more mixer strips if you wish, by clicking the top "+" symbol shown to the right of the mixer. Once you have the patch routed to the mixer strip of your choice, you can then click on that strip's "Output" field (second from bottom in the mixer) and choose which of Sy Player's audio outputs that mixer strip's audio will be routed to. 

Sy Player is superbly flexible in this way and can stream concurrently up to 9 stereo or 18 mono audio channels to its host, which may be VEPro or your DAW. If you want an instrument patch's audio to be routed to the DAW as a single mono channel, it can be done by using Sy Player mixer strip's Balance control panned hard over, then extracting that side of the appropriate 2-channel pair received in the DAW.

Posted on Sun, Aug 02 2020 17:47
by Sassan
Joined on Wed, Jul 22 2015, Posts 7

Thank you for the answer. My problem is I can not assign a new instrument to Mixer channel 2. All activation I get is from Mixer channel one all the time. I can not find how can I tell the program that I want to have two instruments loaded in one Vienna SY Player like one violin and one Flute in the same time, the first instrument has to go to Mixer channel one the second one to Mixer channel two.

Actually I do not know is that possible to loud two instruments in the same time in one Vienna SY Player. All the time after I have the first instrument ready loaded, when I try to load the second instrument, the second instrument replaced the first instrument. What do I do wrong?

Regards,
Sassan

Posted on Sun, Aug 02 2020 17:56
by Macker
Joined on Tue, Aug 21 2018, London, Posts 120

1.  Are you creating a new empty slot in the dimension structure in Sy player before you try to load that slot with another instrument patch?

If you drag a patch into an already-loaded slot, the dragged patch will replace whatever was loaded in the slot. Same thing will happen if you have an already-loaded slot selected and then double-click on a patch in the Sy Player Browser. It's not a bug.

Posted on Sun, Aug 02 2020 18:00
by Macker
Joined on Tue, Aug 21 2018, London, Posts 120

2.  Also, doesn't DP give you the option of loading a multi-output-channel version of the Sy Player plugin? It should.

Posted on Sun, Aug 02 2020 18:05
by Macker
Joined on Tue, Aug 21 2018, London, Posts 120

3.  And lastly - Sy Player cannot be used in the same way as a traditional so-called "multi-timbral" player. Whatever MIDI channel goes into Sy Player is global to the whole structure of instruments loaded in that player - there is no way of routing different MIDI channels to different instruments.

However, different instruments loaded into different dimension trees can of course be selected by using Dimension Controls to select the appropriate dimension tree.

Posted on Sun, Aug 02 2020 21:18
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 970

Use Vienna Ensemble. That's how things are deigned to work. End of issue.

Finale 25, Sibelius 2018, Notion 6, Overture 5, Cubase 10.5, StaffPad
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Mon, Aug 03 2020 04:03
by Sassan
Joined on Wed, Jul 22 2015, Posts 7

Thank you for the answer. That means the DP has a bug because the Program DP give me an impossible option, adding Vienna SY Player alone with 16 Channels.

After your explanation I have my last question. How can I use channel 2 in Vienna SY Player and for what is this channel created?

Thank you in advance,
Regards,
Sassan

Posted on Mon, Aug 03 2020 04:55
by Macker
Joined on Tue, Aug 21 2018, London, Posts 120

Sassan I do not understand most of what you have written, nor have any idea of the procedures you've tried in Sy Player in connection with your issue. A lot of time has been spent trying to help you, but from what we can see in your posts, none of it seems to have made any difference. Please either use Google Translate and try hard to understand what has already been posted for you here (the solutions you need are there), and what's written in the user manual, or else contact VSL directly.

I'm out.

Posted on Mon, Aug 03 2020 13:41
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 970

The SY player only outputs to 1 channel. There's no channel 2.

There's no bug in DP; all DAW operate the same way. DP has no way of knowing how many channels a given VSTi has. But you know.

VSL provides Vienna Ensemble. You can put 16 instances of SY Player in that, the connect DP the VE, and you have your 16 channels.

Finale 25, Sibelius 2018, Notion 6, Overture 5, Cubase 10.5, StaffPad
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Mon, Aug 03 2020 18:19
by Sassan
Joined on Wed, Jul 22 2015, Posts 7

Thank you for the answer. What I understood is by default we have Channel 1, but the program gave us the option to add other channels like channel 2 or channel 3 with keeping the first channel but, we can never use all channels at the same time, right? The question is, is this program wrong designed to have two or more than two channels at the same time with no use of channels together at all? If I'm wrong can you please tell me how can I use two channels in the same time in this program? If I'm right please can you tell me what is the use to have the option having more channels in the same time in Vienna SY Player with no use?

Best regards,
Sassan

Posted on Tue, Aug 04 2020 09:41
by Andreas8420
Joined on Mon, Dec 02 2019, Vienna, Posts 15

Hello everyone!

Thank you for your contribution - it's already perfectly answered. The Vienna Synchron Player is not multi-timbral and therefore not designed to access different instruments on different channels. You load each instrument or instrument group into their own instance of the Synchron Player (like Flute, Trumpet, 1st Violins, etc.).

And like Bill suggested - the best way to approach this is indeed the Vienna Ensemble software which allows you to do exactly what you want to do with access to 16 MIDI channels per port.

You can find detailed information for Routing in Digital Performer here.

Best regards - Andreas

Technical Support - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Aug 04 2020 10:51
by Sassan
Joined on Wed, Jul 22 2015, Posts 7

Thank you Andreas for the answer,

My last question is, we have this option to have more than one Channels at the same time in Vienna SY Player (we can add a second one after we got the first one automatically). How can we use two channels at the same time on one Vienna SY player? In other words, having two channels in one Vienna SY Player is for which use an option for us?

Thank you in advance for your help
Best regards,
Sassan

Posted on Tue, Aug 04 2020 12:20
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 970

No, there is no such option. YOU CAN'T DO IT

Finale 25, Sibelius 2018, Notion 6, Overture 5, Cubase 10.5, StaffPad
Win10 x64, 32GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Tue, Aug 04 2020 13:25
by Sassan
Joined on Wed, Jul 22 2015, Posts 7

I guess we can. Please have a look at this picture:

https://www.sassan-mohebbi.com/ViennaSYPlayer.png

Am I wrong?

Posted on Tue, Aug 04 2020 13:42
by Macker
Joined on Tue, Aug 21 2018, London, Posts 120

EDIT VSL: Please be respectful when addressing other people or simply refrain from continuing the conversation if further answers seem pointless.

Gentlemen, it appears we have a troll here.

He has obfuscated, ducked and dived all along, did not respond coherently if at all to answers or pertinent questions from us, and continued posting his petulant and incomprehensible complaining. It seems that at some stage, without admitting it to us of course, he cottoned on as to how to solve his problem, and now he's trying to use that as a weapon too. (Notice how he cunningly projected his own initial confusion about Multi-MIDI-channel multi-timbral operation onto Bill, by misleading Bill into thinking he was talking only about that - the troll thereafter carefully avoided saying what sort of "channel" he was referring to. Bill and I correctly told him traditional Multi-timbral operation was not possible, but in retrospect we can see that the troll had moved on - without making it clear to us - to focussing on multi-audio-channel outputs.)

Classic troll behaviour. I've seen it all too many times in 'social' and political forums. Probably a deranged narcissistic millennial snowflake living in mom's basement.

Please, dear gentlemen, I implore you - avoid wasting your valuable time and attention on this malicious type.

And keep your guard up! This one's upload reveals that he's IT savvy, probably savvy enough to do what so many trolls do once they're busted - use a spoof IP address to come back in another guise and start their malignant activity again. I've got eyes on a suspicious one in this forum as we speak. Am I being paranoid? Pfft, in this day and age? Lol, I'm not paranoid enough!

Posted on Tue, Aug 04 2020 17:25
by Andreas8420
Joined on Mon, Dec 02 2019, Vienna, Posts 15

Please be nice and respectful. All further communication is directed to the existing support case. And I think there is a simple misunderstanding between the concept of mixer outputs & midi channels. Thank you everyone for your contribution. This thread is closed now.

Best, Andreas

Technical Support - Vienna Symphonic Library
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