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  4. Wagner, Tristan und Isolde, Act III, Prelude

  • Wagner, Tristan und Isolde, Act III, Prelude

    PaoloTP
    PaoloTP
    last edited
    last edited

    Hi,

    I'm working on the Prelude to Act III of Wagner's Tristan und Isolde. The right music for these times!

    Wagner - Tristan/Isolde, Act III, Prelude

    It's all old VI, with MIR as the reverb. I went for Teldex for its transparency. All made in Dorico, as an exercise, but also as a way of working fitting better my habits. And a nice way to analyze the score!

    I'm trying to make it as realistic as possible. One aspect that I'm not yet satisfied is how the solo violoncello and viola sound. Maybe I should equalize them so that they sound warmer, not brighter. Also, maybe I should move them more out of the ensemble in the MIR space, so that they sound more separate.

    Paolo
  • PaoloTP
    PaoloTP

    Something I had been overlooking is the final master effects. I've the old adagio resounding in my ears, saying "with classical music you don't use effects!". Obviously, this is plainly wrong, since the good saying would have to be "use whatever works!".

    I think some good compression and equalization can make a prototype made with virtual instruments sound more real, rather than more processed.

    Paolo
  • W
    W

    Paolo that sounds great, so expressivo and reveals the intensity of the music.  Wagner was a horrible human being ---  I threw out all my records of Wagner after reading about what he did and said.  But you can't deny how great a composer he was. It is difficult to reconcile.   

    Anyway what a great job you did on this.  What were the strings specifically?  I thought you might use MIRacle additionally, though not sure.  I've only used it with Vienna Konzerthaus.  But I was thinking an additional very subtle layer of overall reverb could add to it.  
  • PaoloTP
    PaoloTP
    last edited
    last edited

    William, thank you very much for your kind words!

    @Another User said:

    What were the strings specifically?  I thought you might use MIRacle additionally, though not sure.  I've only used it with Vienna Konzerthaus.  But I was thinking an additional very subtle layer of overall reverb could add to it.  

    The strings in this mockup are the old Orchestral Strings, layered with some of the Dimension Strings. I find this setup creates depth and bite, and you can create your own sound as you like. I think you have done the same yourself.

    I'm using MIRacle, but more like a sweetener than a tail. I know some have criticized this way of matching MIR and MIRacle, but I feel this balance preserves the sense of space, while making the sound rounder. I don't know. I'll have to relisten to my current mockups later, and see how I find them after some time from making them.

    Paolo
  • W
    W

    You're right about  artists throughout history who are not so nice.    Another example is Gesualdo who was a murderer! But he did some of the most wondrous music ever composed in the Renaissance.

    That is what I was thinking about using MIRacle as a slightly audible overall wash.  It seems to add space.  Also that layering of the strings is really good. There are endless possibilities with the combinations of the different VSL strings and the nice thing is they are so easy to layer because of the uniform sampling.   
  • J
    J

    Fantastic job, Paolo. The orchestra sounds so good and transparent. Even the smallest details are there.

    I' listened with great interest and admiration, although I'm not so fond of reverberation. Even with the extra MIRacle, it's never overdone and it doesn't mask the clarity and detail.

    Great job (and exercise succeeded!).

    Jos

     
     
  • PaoloTP
    PaoloTP

    Jos, thank you for listening and for your kind words!

    It seems my poor reverb is not convincing you, as is not convincing William. Maybe I should increase the amount of MIRacle. But I really fear reverb, being so fast to make everything too blurry.

    (Reverb: our ear's sight, that great gift allowing us to hear the space in which we move!)

    I'll really have to return on it after making my ears rest!

    Paolo
  • J
    J

    Not at all, Paolo. The tiny reverb is just perfect. I was talking in general. The time of huge reverbs and halls is past...

    Jos

     
     
  • PaoloTP
    PaoloTP

    Jos, sorry for misunderstanding! You are right: MIRacle can preserve transparency, when not overused. And I agree that a careful use of reverb can be finally accepted, even if it can't give "immediate satisfaction".

    Paolo

    (PS: Now listening to David Sylvian's Gone to Earth – sort of an apotheosis of Lexicon reverbs overuse…)
  • PaulP Paul moved this topic from Orchestration & Composition on