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Posted on Wed, Nov 04 2020 11:15
by andi
Joined on Wed, Feb 18 2004, Vienna, Posts 3376

Dear community!

We have just released Dorico Expression Maps and Playback Templates for our SYNCHRON-ized Special Editions. All settings can easily be installed with our "VSL for Dorico" installer. Dorico 3.5 is required.
https://www.vsl.co.at/Notation_Related

We have prepared some tutorial projects, videos and a manual. More information can be found here:
https://www.vsl.info/tutorials/guides/dorico-integration/introduction

In addition John Barron from the Dorico team will make a live session on YouTube explaining these playback templates today at 5 pm CET.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMh5LcnLOGc&feature=emb_title

Best regards,
Andi

Andreas Olszewski
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Nov 04 2020 12:18
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2683

MANY MANY MANY THANKS

MacBook Pro 2019 16" + 2 x Odisseey G9 49" Big Sur
MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
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Posted on Wed, Nov 04 2020 12:20
by GilP
Joined on Thu, Aug 31 2017, Posts 85

Hello Andi,

Thanks for this great and long waiting news, and thanks for your effort giving us the opportunity to use Synchronized SE instruments with Dorico 3.5! Can't wait to try them and the youtube stream!

Do you think these expression maps can be used as a foundation for full instruments expression maps? I mean by ourself, even if VSL is providing expression maps for full instruments (like the one for Synchron Strings I available at the Dorico forum) would be tremendous :) ?

Regards,

Gil.

Posted on Wed, Nov 04 2020 12:29
by andi
Joined on Wed, Feb 18 2004, Vienna, Posts 3376

Hello Gil!

The expression maps could be used as a starting point for other libraries, but I'm not sure, if this will actually save any time in comparison to starting from scratch.

Best regards,
Andi

Andreas Olszewski
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Nov 04 2020 12:49
by Steve Martin
Joined on Sat, Sep 17 2005, Queensland, Australia, Posts 552

Hi there,

the Dorico instruments sound superb. Really looking forward to trying these out with my Dorico program.

 

Steve

Posted on Wed, Nov 04 2020 13:02
by DaddyO
Joined on Tue, May 22 2012, Washington (US State), Posts 383

Huge kudos to the VSL team for working with the Dorico team to create and release this. It will be a huge help in implementing my VSL libraries in Dorico. I especially appreciate the way both teams are releasing everything in one easy install package and supporting videos.

VI Symphonic Cube Full
SY Strings Pro, SY Elite Strings
SYzd Woodwinds, Solo Strings, SpecEds 1-4 PLUS
Cubase 9.5, Studio One 5, Dorico 3.5
VE Pro 7, VI Pro, MIR Pro, MIRx
Windows 10
Dorico 3.5, Cubase 9.5, Studio One 5
Posted on Wed, Nov 04 2020 15:41
by bogdan
Joined on Fri, Apr 18 2008, Canada/ Edmonton , Posts 286

Thanks a lot Andi ! If you have time, please add some of your percussion pieces to DORICO , they are outstanding !

Posted on Wed, Nov 04 2020 17:08
by MMKA
Joined on Tue, May 22 2012, Posts 408
Congratulations, Andy, on this project. Dorico and VSL, a beautiful combination!
Posted on Wed, Nov 04 2020 21:01
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 989

A release giving Dorico an authoritative voice!

Paolo

Posted on Thu, Nov 05 2020 17:04
by lunar_28664
Joined on Wed, Jun 20 2007, Posts 101

I welcome these templates as well and am enjoying studying the Expression Maps.  With the Dimension strings, perhaps because I first created my own maps before Dorico 3.5, I missed your trick of using a con sord as an add-on which actually simplifies things rather. In fact, it's puzzling why you didn't simply include additional odd-ons for all the player divisions as that's just a few minutes work and seems to work flawlessly. Of course the corresponding p.t's would also need to be generated which is a few more! Incidentally, when in con sord mode, any p.t when cancelled must have the con sord reapplied as ord specifically exits mute mode (A0). Obviously pizz comes into this category, as does detache. Articulations (marked with symbols) work differently as I'm sure you know.

On the Synchronized orchestra vol 1 and 2, I've found some odd dynamics with my own pieces (compared to my own maps) but there are various possible reasons for that and I'm now off to listen to your demo tracks -- thanks for making the scores available which will be very helpful.

Posted on Sat, Nov 07 2020 21:40
by Klavaus
Joined on Fri, Dec 26 2008, Germany, Posts 17

Vielen Dank!

Posted on Sun, Nov 08 2020 19:15
by Marcabru
Joined on Fri, Sep 08 2017, Posts 14

Really great to see these arrive, thanks!

One immediate thought is that I was a bit surprised to see, in Dorico's video, a great long list of individual VSTs for each instrument, because I'm accustomed to using Ensemble Pro. Of course there is no problem with assigning the new maps to the appropriate instrument, but would I be right in thinking that it isn't practical to auto-load ensemble instances?

I'm just working through the VST list with a current project. I've noticed a few things so far:

Flute 2+ loads with CC11 set significantly lower than 127. (Incidentally, currently my own maps use both cc2 and cc11 instead of velocity+cc.)

Instrument Eb clarinet loads a Bb clarinet patch.

Horn 1+2 loads the Vienna horn, 3+4 loads the triple horn. I wonder if it should go 1+3, 2+4?

Trumpets load C, Bb, C; I'd prefer C, C, Bb

Strings: some odd things here, thanks to Dimension Strings. This score has solo violin/viola/cello, but no divisi (so far). What's loaded is Dimension violin 1 player 1 for the solo -- I would have expected Solo Strings violin 1+ -- and then both section violins load with group 1 enabled, rather than the full ensemble. No solo double bass, but it loaded with only player 1 enabled.

Posted on Sun, Nov 08 2020 21:25
by lunar_28664
Joined on Wed, Jun 20 2007, Posts 101

Originally Posted by: Marcabru Go to Quoted Post

Strings: some odd things here, thanks to Dimension Strings. This score has solo violin/viola/cello, but no divisi (so far). What's loaded is Dimension violin 1 player 1 for the solo -- I would have expected Solo Strings violin 1+ -- and then both section violins load with group 1 enabled, rather than the full ensemble. No solo double bass, but it loaded with only player 1 enabled.

There's no support in the Expression Maps for string divisions so there would be no point putting them in the score. Arguably, there should be entries for all the different solo players as well but that was a step too far for me.

I also prefer CC2 +CC11 but with the secondary scaled, otherwise the dynamic range is far too high. The chosen method seems to work OK for the demos, though.  The comment on the horns is interesting as there are a lot of ways you could call this including allocating an ensemble to one part (and then just mute the others in the score)

Posted on Mon, Nov 09 2020 02:10
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2683

WARNING :

VSL expression maps did not show in the "Default playback templates" 

Solution :

I removed all Dorico version except 3.5 and now they are showing 

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MacBook Pro 2019 16" + 2 x Odisseey G9 49" Big Sur
MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor 5, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Mon, Nov 09 2020 09:46
by andi
Joined on Wed, Feb 18 2004, Vienna, Posts 3376

Hello Marcabru!

Thanks for your input. Here are the answers to the things you have brought up.
We thought about using Vienna Ensemble or VE Pro too in the playback templates. This would have the drawback that some instruments would be loaded even though they are not included in the score. Furthermore not all users have Vienna Ensemble installed. So these users would get an error message about the missing plugin. That's why we have decided to go with Synchron Player without Vienna Ensemble (Pro). If you want to, you can make your own playback templates with Vienna Ensemble (Pro) and our expression maps.

>> Flute 2+ loads with CC11 set significantly lower than 127.

=> I cannot reproduce this problem. Flute II loads with CC11 value 127 here. Which playback template did you apply?

>> Instrument Eb clarinet loads a Bb clarinet patch.

=> That's true. Unfortunately Dorico doesn't differ between the keys the instruments are in as far as playback is concerned. For the Clarinet in Eb, please load the Clarinet in Eb preset manually. The expression maps doesn't have to be changed.

>> Horn 1+2 loads the Vienna horn, 3+4 loads the triple horn. I wonder if it should go 1+3, 2+4?

=> Horn 1 and 3 load the triple horn, horn 2 and 4 load the Viennese horn. Which playback template did you apply to get the result you have described?

>> Trumpets load C, Bb, C; I'd prefer C, C, Bb

=> Dorico doesn't differ between the keys the instruments are in as far as playback is concerned. If you prefer a different order of the trumpets, please re-assign the plugins or load different presets in Synchron Player.

>> Strings: some odd things here, thanks to Dimension Strings. This score has solo violin/viola/cello, but no divisi (so far). What's loaded is Dimension violin 1 player 1 for the solo

=> The playback template "VSL SYzd Special Edition Vol 1-7 PLUS (Dimension instruments)" loads dimension instruments. If you would like to have solo strings loaded instead, please use the template "VSL SYzd Special Edition Vol 1-4 PLUS".

Best regards,
Andi

Andreas Olszewski
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Nov 09 2020 11:42
by gyprock
Joined on Thu, Jan 19 2012, Posts 18

Andi,

I noticed that there was no playing technique for trills, half or whole. Is this an oversight or intentional since Dorico has it's own method of generating trills when you use the "tr" symbol? I had to go into Engrave>Playing Techniques... and define my own text based symbol - Trill(half-step), if I specifically wanted to trigger VSL's trill articulation.

Initially I couldn't get this to work, not because I had the wrong definition, but rather because I had it following the "Portato" articulation in my test score. My trill only worked if I ended the "Portato" articulation with "Ord" prior to using the trill.

Are there any other of these idiosyncrasies that we should be aware of when using the maps? I'm sure that as people use them more, their experiences will be documented.

Regards,

Gyprock.

Posted on Mon, Nov 09 2020 12:07
by andi
Joined on Wed, Feb 18 2004, Vienna, Posts 3376

Hello Gyprock!

Trills are included in the Special Edition PLUS expression maps for strings and wind instruments. They are working fine here. It's true that if you have other commands earlier in the score, they may not work together and it may be necessary to add an "ord." command before the new command.

Best regards,
Andi

Andreas Olszewski
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Nov 09 2020 12:28
by lunar_28664
Joined on Wed, Jun 20 2007, Posts 101

Originally Posted by: andi Go to Quoted Post

We thought about using Vienna Ensemble or VE Pro too in the playback templates. This would have the drawback that some instruments would be loaded even though they are not included in the score. Furthermore not all users have Vienna Ensemble installed. So these users would get an error message about the missing plugin. That's why we have decided to go with Synchron Player without Vienna Ensemble (Pro). If you want to, you can make your own playback templates with Vienna Ensemble (Pro) and our expression maps.

Best regards,
Andi

thanks for this clarification, Andi. I find it annoying to use single instrument instances as it's harder to edit or get an overview but on the other hand, uisng VE not only are instruments loaded which are not necessarily in the score, I frequently seem to get extra instances added by Dorico and other odd behaviour (such as refusal to save endpoints) so your choice is understandable even without the consideration that some users may not be using VE (Pro)

Posted on Mon, Nov 09 2020 12:33
by lunar_28664
Joined on Wed, Jun 20 2007, Posts 101

Originally Posted by: andi Go to Quoted Post

Hello Gyprock!

Trills are included in the Special Edition PLUS expression maps for strings and wind instruments. They are working fine here. It's true that if you have other commands earlier in the score, they may not work together and it may be necessary to add an "ord." command before the new command.

Best regards,
Andi

perhaps just to clarify that vol5 Dimension Strings don't include trills, (though I've borrowed them from elsewhere in my own setup). However the trills seem to work otherwise fine for me

Posted on Fri, Nov 27 2020 02:19
by giwro
Joined on Wed, Feb 27 2013, Posts 1
I’ve been experimenting with these, and they are working very well. I still have a bit of tweaking to do in the Dorico Play window sometimes, but I’m impressed with the output so far:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IX5BzhDFdw

Thanks, VSL and Dorico!

Jonathan
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