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Issues with Synchron Strings Pro legato
Last post Mon, Nov 23 2020 by PaoloT, 9 replies.
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Posted on Fri, Nov 20 2020 18:40
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 799

Hi,

I've a strange issue with Dorico and the Synchron Strings Pro. The legato becomes jumpy, and I can't understand way.

The piece was made with the old Vienna Instruments Pro player. I then changed it to Synchron Player to play the new strings.

The sequence contains CC1, CC11, CC72 and CC73 controls. However, I deactivated reception of CC72 and CC73, to avoid messing with attack and release (I had reassigned these from the default settings).

The strings played in the Synchron Player standalone, and before playing something in Dorico, are smooth as in the first example.

http://www.studio-magazine.com/varie/de ... before.mp3

When playing the sequence from Dorico, it becomes jumpy as in the second example. It is as if there is a break between the notes, instead of a legato transition.

http://www.studio-magazine.com/varie/de ... -after.mp3

When selecting the preset again, and when starting playback, I can't see anything happening in the player. No change in parameters or in the faders.

Is there something hidden I could investigate on? Some controller that I can't see, but is sent?

Paolo

Posted on Fri, Nov 20 2020 22:06
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 799

I exported a MIDI file from Dorico, and I can't see anything suspect. There is exactly what I put in the score, apart for a Program Change message at the beginning of each track.

When played back in Logic with SSP, I have the same issue. I'm attaching part of the MIDI file, and my custom Vni I preset.

Paolo

File Attachment(s):
pt-wagner-excerpt.mid.zip (3kb) downloaded 1 time(s).
PTU002001U00201stU0020Violins-14U0020ProU0020XFU0020sus.vsynpreset.zip (25kb) downloaded 1 time(s).

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Posted on Sat, Nov 21 2020 00:13
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 799

The Damper pedal! Dorico inserts several CC64=0 messages - I don't know why. Synchron Player should use CC64 for bow change or other articulation duties. This might be the cause of that stuttering.

I can't check it now, but I’ll try tomorrow. If confirmed, I will have to find a way to avoid Dorico to send those unnecessary messages.

EDIT: Nope. While Dorico transmits CC64 messages via the IAC Bus, they are not saved in the MIDI file. Yet, the issue still exists when playing the MIDI file with Logic.

Paolo

Posted on Sat, Nov 21 2020 10:07
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 799

I've compared two presets and keyswitch systems: the one coming with the library from VSL, and the other my own modified version.

VSL uses these keyswitches for Violini I:

- Articulation from C1
- Type from C2
- Release from F7 (white)
- Attack from A7 (white)

I use these keyswitches for the same (customized preset):

- Articulation from C-1
- Type from C0
- Release from E9 (chromatic)
- Attack from C9 (chromatic)

The first one is smooth. My customized preset/keyswitch system stutters at each articulation change. Apart for the different notes, I can't see a real difference. Apart, maybe, the fact that the Attack note is lower in pitch than the Release one, contrary to the ordering in the player's interface.

EDIT: No, I created a new preset with the Release keyswitch lower than the Attack one. I modified the keyswitches sent by Logic. No way. Stuttering again.

Paolo

Posted on Sat, Nov 21 2020 11:12
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 799

I am totally clueless with this issue. There is nothing that I can view in the sequence, the preset and the player that can help me track it down. The only difference with the original presets is the position of the keyswitches and the assignment of CC72, 73 and 74 to the ones indicated by the MIDI standard. There are no overlapping keyswitches or CCs (as far as I can see). Keyswitches appear fine in the Articulation map.

So, it's something happening at a deeper level. No idea on how to check it.

Paolo

Posted on Sat, Nov 21 2020 14:08
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 799

FOUND!

It's the Release control. Either it is assigned to the default CC24, or the MIDI standard CC72, when it is sent to the Synchron Player it causes the stuttering between notes I've noticed.

Is this happening to others? Is it a bug? Is it working in a different way than in the Vienna Instruments player? Is there a solution?

Paolo

Posted on Sun, Nov 22 2020 09:17
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 799

In VI-C, the user JTB has probably found the cause:

"I can confirm that after inserting release automation below 30 I can hear an audible gap between notes using the V1 regular vibrato legato patch. The same gap occurs when switching arts. It seems that the CC23 slider is affecting the release sample, not the release envelope. This is probably why the gap occurs."

I'll add that it is not CC23 the cause, but any CC assigned to the Release control. It seems like the release sample is being cut, instead of modified.

Can you fix it?

Paolo

Posted on Mon, Nov 23 2020 09:36
by andi
Joined on Wed, Feb 18 2004, Vienna, Posts 3293

Hello Paolo!

The release fader affects the release time of the main sample and not the release sample. I have seen in your project that for most notes the release fader is set to 0. This means that the sample gets cut as soon as the key is released. The release sample will still be triggered, but a hard cut sample will still be audible and produce a gap. For most cases I wouldn't recommend to set this fader to 0.

Best regards,
Andi

Andreas Olszewski
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Nov 23 2020 10:43
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 799

Originally Posted by: andi Go to Quoted Post

The release sample will still be triggered, but a hard cut sample will still be audible and produce a gap. For most cases I wouldn't recommend to set this fader to 0.

Andi, thank you very much for you answer. O my! I've always considered '0' to be 'no artificial envelope', while I see that the default is '64' in Synchron Player and '63' in the VI player. So, I've always cut the release each time I've altered it!

Paolo

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