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VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1
Last post Sun, Jan 29 2023 by Michael Canavan, 231 replies.
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Posted on Fri, Nov 04 2022 06:58
by Michael Canavan
Joined on Sun, Jun 25 2017, Posts 34

Originally Posted by: dmansfield Go to Quoted Post

I've seen mention of the AU plugin working natively under Silicon-- is that correct? If so, is it possible to use it in Pro Tools and DP11? I imagine not, as people would be doing it, but if so, I could still run all my VSL software on my 5,1 slave.

If not I can run everything that's NOT vsl on my Mac Studio and give up my vsl libraries. Unless there's some convoluted way to get MIDI to VEPro 7 on my slave using Audio MIDI and the MIDI networking feature

So the VEP AU plug in runs in Rosetta on Apple Silicon Macs with the DAW running native. I suppose there's some convoluted way to run something like Blue Cats Patchwork in AAX to host the AU VEP plug in, inside Pro Tools, but if you're going this route the best bet is DP11 which hosts AU natively. The issue is like Even pointed out that MAS is just better, it's a whole lot of rewriting templates to get decent results and then VSL finally release the native Apple Silicon version with MAS etc. 

The better solution if all you do is orchestral work is to run the DAW in Rosetta, use the actual MAS etc. plugin you want to use, and use your 5,1 as a slave. 

Posted on Sun, Nov 06 2022 16:19
by kurt
Joined on Mon, Jan 15 2007, Belgium, Posts 65

Just curious if VSL would release beta version of AS VEP ? Lots of different software companies like Soundtoys, xfer, output, .. create beta programs so people with no critical projects/work can already try, and if there are any bugs, report them. 

Posted on Thu, Nov 10 2022 17:59
by dterry
Joined on Thu, Jan 30 2003, Posts 63

Out of curiosity if this is of interest to anyone new to DP on M1, I just tested DP running VEP AU (DP Native) vs MAS (DP in Rosetta) using my full scoring template, with video attached.  

1 - DP in Rosetta, VEP MAS:

  • Pros: much lower Real time processing load/cpu usage, with the advantage of having multiple midi ports per instance.
  • Cons:  GUI is somewhat less responsive, or less smooth.  Noticeable graphics anomalies when changing tabs.

2 - DP Native, VEP AU:

  • Pros:  DP runs very smoothly. GUI is quick and responsive. Excellent user experience by comparison.
  • Cons:  Higher real time processing/cpu load with VEP in AU format (DP's load without VEP instances is minimal).  Only a single midi port per VEP instance. 

So, those are our options.  I am moving my scoring work to DP, and have an M1 Mac sitting here waiting, with scoring projects coming very soon.  DP simply does not run well enough on Windows (my i7 at least), to be usable (GUI is way too slow).  That leaves very few options.  

We really need native compatibility for VEPro MAS ASAP.  AU isn't a viable option for me and probably many other DP users.  Note that DP was native compatible not long after the first M1s were released.  It was native at least in November of 2020 - two years ago.  MOTU may have been better positioned to make the transition quickly, but if they can do it, others could have as well. To be honest, copy protection is only for the benefit of the developer (again DP's simple system is a good example).  It should never get in the way of customers or our work.  

VSL - we are at the point even a rough timeframe for native compatibility is better than nothing.  Many of us are having to consider costly alternatives to VSL and VEPro that, given the reality of our schedules, won't be temporary.  That could mean lost sales for VSL in the future, and probably already has for customers new to VEPro and VSL.  

Posted on Wed, Nov 16 2022 19:04
by cdscores
Joined on Tue, Dec 08 2009, Posts 1

I am in the exact same boat! The graphics and tabs in DP are really wonky in Rosetta mode but given ALL my VSL templates are built using the multi port MAS version there is no efficient way to convert them all! I have been super patient, but this is really getting frustrating! 

Posted on Thu, Nov 17 2022 11:18
by snattack
Joined on Fri, Oct 03 2008, Piteå, Sweden, Posts 72

I've decided to abandon VEP entirely. We've been waiting 2,5 years, and quite frankly, I halved the processing overhead in Nuendo 12 after removing VEP.

I've been a VEP user since 2011, teaching it in universities and engaged in the community, but there's a limit to how long it's possible to wait. VSL is among the last to fix M1 compatibility, only passed by a couple of old-school plugin manufacturers like Lexicon, Musictribe and Kush Audio (which will probably never fix their plugins, their codebase is too old). I've abandoned those as well, and will recommend any students to do the same.

It was a pain rebuilding the template into disabled instrument tracks instead, but worth it. For remote usage of plugins and libraries, I'll look into Audiogridder instead in the future.

Posted on Thu, Nov 17 2022 12:08
by cojoncio
Joined on Tue, Apr 20 2010, Spain, Posts 79

Originally Posted by: snattack Go to Quoted Post

For remote usage of plugins and libraries, I'll look into Audiogridder instead in the future.

 

Wow.. sounds good. Thnx for the info.

Looks like VSL is updating and releasing new stuff, but nothing related to VEP. I guess it's time to move on.

Master: i9 7900x OS X 10.13.6
Slaves: i7 3930k. Windows 7 - i9 10980XE Windows 10
DAW: Digital Performer
Posted on Thu, Nov 17 2022 12:14
by andy hardwick
Joined on Thu, Dec 29 2016, Posts 1

I got quite excited whenI saw that update come in yesterday! Oh well, time to move on I think..

Posted on Thu, Nov 17 2022 15:59
by MikeC
Joined on Wed, Sep 08 2004, Posts 98

The update has just borked my entire setup. I'm totally unable to connect to any of my existing instances. The whole thing is an utter disaster. There's often very little in the way of tech support and it's had me tearing my hair out all afternoon. I simply can't afford to waste the time with this anymore. I'll be using next week (I have a bit of rare downtime) to move across to a deactivated template. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who's done the same. I'm writing in huge frustration at the moment, so might calm down, but we're all under enough deadline pressure without this nonsense getting in the way. Sorry if that's a little intemperate. I'm fed up/stressed.

Posted on Thu, Nov 17 2022 16:16
by beatpete
Joined on Thu, Oct 01 2009, Posts 98

Originally Posted by: cojoncio Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: snattack Go to Quoted Post

For remote usage of plugins and libraries, I'll look into Audiogridder instead in the future.

That's what I'm doing as well( loading all libraries disabled). It takes a little longer to access instruments (enable) and projects can be quite big with lots of instruments loaded but it's much cleaner.

Comp1: Windows 10 64 bit,AMD 3950x 32 core, 64gb ram,, Radeon HD5450 graphics, RME Digiface, Steinberg UR824 and MR816x (X2)
(connected to Digiface), Cubase 12
Comp 2: Windows 7 64bit, I5 3450,32 gb ram, VEPro 7
Comp 3: Mac air M1
Posted on Thu, Nov 17 2022 16:24
by MikeC
Joined on Wed, Sep 08 2004, Posts 98

I'll look into this, although I have to say a single computer setup sounds very appealing). 

The constraint, as ever, is RAM, but now Cubase supports freezing multiple tracks, that should be less of an issue. 

I'll see if they can fix VEPro, I'm extremely frustrated right now, but if they can get it working again, it really is a useful tool. However, I'm actively exploring alternatives. I just can't afford to be letting clients down like this.

Posted on Thu, Nov 17 2022 18:21
by Andreas8420
Joined on Mon, Dec 02 2019, Vienna, Posts 187

Hello Mike,

Sorry to hear that you are negatively affected by the last update. We are currently investigating - but in the meanwhile, the rollback feature (via the right-click context menu) will allow you to get back quickly to the previous VE Pro version.

 

=> Software Rollback - Context Menu

Best,
Andreas

Technical Support - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Nov 17 2022 20:42
by dterry
Joined on Thu, Jan 30 2003, Posts 63

I setup an i9 sample server last night, and the latest version of VEPro (7.1.1427), and can confirm it has serious bugs.  In my case, connecting from the main host (M1 Mac), caused VEP on the i9 to create a new instance with a truncated name.  If the original instance I connected to was named "Strings", the new instance would be "ngs".  I couldn't simply use the new instance.  Saving and reopening a project caused the same bug - connections would create a new blank instance and connect to that.  

I have an i7 server working fine with VEP 7.1.1298, so I rolled VEP on the i9 back to .1298 and it now works fine.  Both servers are connected.  I would withdraw 7.1.1427 from VSL's downloads and installer. 

Posted on Thu, Nov 17 2022 23:38
by Jon Newton
Joined on Sat, Mar 20 2021, Portland, Oregon, Posts 4

I'm having the same issues on a networked Mac. I rebuilt a program that worked, but now everything is coming back distorted. This is only on the networked Mac, not the Mac running VEP.

I tried rolling back to the previous version, but it wiped the VEP AU plug in from Digital Performer.

Really not sure how to proceed.

Jon Newton
Portland, Oregon

Posted on Fri, Nov 18 2022 07:32
by MikeC
Joined on Wed, Sep 08 2004, Posts 98

I'll try a rollback asap (not in the studio for a few days now). I hope that works! Thanks for the info

Posted on Fri, Nov 18 2022 08:57
by HONEYHILL
Joined on Fri, Jan 28 2022, Germany, Posts 3

VSL LiveChat <>
           
17 Nov 2022, 19:26 (14 hours ago)
           
to me
Hello Oliver,
 
thanks for getting in touch.
 
You can use all our samples & software on the macOS Ventura. Our software also works with the M1 and M2 chips, and it works surprisingly well on Rosetta 2. You can find more information about Rosetta 2 here:
 
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211861
 
Apple's M1 and M2 and chips are not yet officially supported, but we have this high on our priority list. Our developers are working on full-native support for Apples new Silicon CPUs - but we don't have an ETA at this point.

 

 

 

 





 
 


 
 






 






Posted on Fri, Nov 18 2022 13:19
by glasswing
Joined on Fri, Feb 15 2013, Vancouver Island, Posts 32

iLok works fine with Pro Tools, Ivory, Omnisphere and a lot of software on my Mac Studio (Rosetta).  I've never been in love with iLok but it's never caused me much trouble either.  Pro Tools is going native soon.  They're testing Beta now w developers.  

The truth is, with my Mac Studio, I no longer need VEP.  Sad.  I love its economy and organization - and I have a mountain of old sessions that depend on it. Rebuilding those without VEP will be an enormous headache.  

Last I heard, Apple is nowhere near as big in Europe as it is in North America.  I suspect this is a bit of what's going on.  When I switched from analogue tape to digital in the 80's, Apple was the only game in town for audio.
I never left the platform, although we did buy a bunch of Windows machines in the nineties when we were developing interactive multimedia.  From that experience, I have no plans of switching to Windows anytime soon!  

I think letting VEP slide much longer will be a big loss for VSL.  Maybe they should switch to a subscription model to provide enough funds to keep VEP up to date?  Avid did it.  It's expensive.  And I would hate it but, since they started the subscription thing, Pro Tools has finally started working again. 

Posted on Fri, Nov 18 2022 14:17
by Jon Newton
Joined on Sat, Mar 20 2021, Portland, Oregon, Posts 4

...except when I did the rollback, it removed the VEP plug in from the Library > Audio > Plug-ins folder, and now it doesn't work at all in Digital Performer...

Posted on Fri, Nov 18 2022 18:44
by dterry
Joined on Thu, Jan 30 2003, Posts 63

Originally Posted by: Jon Newton Go to Quoted Post

...except when I did the rollback, it removed the VEP plug in from the Library > Audio > Plug-ins folder, and now it doesn't work at all in Digital Performer...

Are you running VEP server locally on the same Mac as DP?  In my case, it was a slave PC that I had to rollback.  That only affected VEP server.   My Mac M1 is running an older version of the plugin itself (7.0.1120).  Both PCs are 7.1.1298.  That setup works, at least with DP.  Nuendo 12 doesn't work well under Rosetta with VEP plugins. 

Posted on Sun, Nov 20 2022 14:00
by dmansfield
Joined on Tue, Sep 21 2004, New Jersey, Posts 17

I have to switch over to my M1 system this week, one way or the other. At the moment, I'm working on a small project in Pro Tools, which runs in Rosetta anyway. Is anyone having acceptable results with Pro Tools (latest version 2022.10.0.134) and the VEPro7 plugin?

Hoping that by the time I have a bigger score to write in DP they'l have the MAS plugin written-- and if not, I'll use the AU plugin for my VSL libraries (running on my Intel machine) and run everything else native on the M1. Thank god for DP's V-Racks...

Posted on Mon, Nov 21 2022 14:12
by C_Caouette
Joined on Thu, Mar 11 2004, Posts 173

All I want for the holiday is an Apple Silicon native VEP.   🎄

Any updates or timeframe?   

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