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Alan Meyerson - Dietz Video
Last post Sun, Dec 20 2020 by Pixelpoet1985, 15 replies.
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Posted on Wed, Dec 16 2020 16:41
by DaddyO
Joined on Tue, May 22 2012, Washington (US State), Posts 406

I watched this VSL video chat with Alan Meyerson and Deitz about his use of MIR Pro for a recent film score. It was fascinating.

VSL Chat With Alan Meyerson

In it he talks about how he set up MIR Pro in what appears to be a single plugin instance, then places categories of instruments of the stage, then uses small panning adjustments in his DAW for the various instruments within each category so that he can move the categories around in one space, all the while retaining the complexities of the various instrument relationships within each category. He also mentions adjusting not only the width but the depth of each instrument family, which intrigued me. 

I have never really tried MIR Pro as a plugin in the Cubase mixer, so I want to experiment with this. But before I do I'd be interested, Deitz, in any comment or advice you may have on the process. His ability to move around individual icons of categories without having to re-place each instrument sounds fabulous. Is there any way to do this on one MIR Pro plugin instance without resorting to DAW panning adjustments, i.e., doing it all within MIR Pro?

I'm not sure I'm asking this correctly or even understanding the implications of what I'm asking about, so I'm kind of reaching here.

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Posted on Wed, Dec 16 2020 17:00
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7763

Hi DaddyO,

Your question is a very important one: MIR is indeed meant to take over all panning tasks, as this is THE most fundamental aspect of positioning a signal in a virtual room. This means that you will leave your DAW's channel panning device untouched (... you could even switch it off, in case of Cubase/Nuendo). Under certain circumstances it might be advisable to use a panning device _before_ the signal enters MIR, either to re-center a pre-panned source, or to create a virtual ensemble (like Alan explains by means of the violin overdubs).

Only on very rare occasions you might want to "overrule" MIR panning-wise, which is what Alan Meyerson did when narrowing MIR's output to (almost) mono for that retro-mid-century vibe "Mank" is all about.

... does this answer your question?

(PS: Did you know that you share a quite unique talent with Mr. Meyerson? Dear Alan misspells my nickname in the very same way as you do - persistently, since many years. ;-D ... )

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Dec 16 2020 17:32
by DaddyO
Joined on Tue, May 22 2012, Washington (US State), Posts 406

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post

Hi DaddyO,

Your question is a very important one: MIR is indeed meant to take over all panning tasks, as this is THE most fundamental aspect of positioning a signal in a virtual room. This means that you will leave your DAW's channel panning device untouched (... you could even switch it off, in case of Cubase/Nuendo). Under certain circumstances it might be advisable to use a panning device _before_ the signal enters MIR, either to re-center a pre-panned source, or to create a virtual ensemble (like Alan explains by means of the violin overdubs).

Only on very rare occasions you might want to "overrule" MIR panning-wise, which is what Alan Meyerson did when narrowing MIR's output to (almost) mono for that retro-mid-century vibe "Mank" is all about.

... does this answer your question?

(PS: Did you know that you share a quite unique talent with Mr. Meyerson? Dear Alan misspells my nickname in the very same way as you do - persistently, since many years. ;-D ... )

Perfectly answers the question, messaged received.  Not advisable to attempt what Alan does except in exceptional circumstances which probably do not apply to me.

Thanks Deetz, I mean Deitz, I mean Dietz. (Gotta remember that!)

SY Strings Pro, Elite Strings. Brass. Perc I, Smart Orchestra
SYzd Woodwinds, Solo Strings, SpecEds 1-4 PLUS
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Posted on Wed, Dec 16 2020 17:34
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7763

;-D ... 

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Dec 16 2020 18:49
by Macker
Joined on Tue, Aug 21 2018, London, Posts 382

Just watched and enjoyed that Dietz and Alan Meyerson video.

Dietz, you're a star. We know this. Your MIR is becoming ever more famous; deservedly so. Well done Sir !

Meanwhile, I'm gritting my teeth more and more as I struggle relentlessly onwards in designing and constructing my ideal localisation/spatialisation facilities in my new template. Yes, yes I know, MIR would put an end to these struggles and let me concentrate on other pressing aspects of my system. But it's a point of pride for this stubborn old engineer to do his damnedest to try it his way first. Then no doubt I'll consider buying MIR. :-)

By the way, let me make it clear here, my other post in which I slag off Mank's screenplay and score is in no way referring to the excellent and much in demand craftsmanship of Alan Meyerson, nor any of the other unsung heroes whose devotion to their craft has been lavished generously on pre-production, main production and post-production work for that film. Of course Alan is waaay too professional to bite the hand that feeds him; I would never expect to hear a public word of criticism from him on the artistic quality (or gross lack thereof) of the music he was mixing. Even so, I wouldn't mind betting he had his doubts about what those old NIN troopers had turned out as the score for Mank, lol.

Posted on Wed, Dec 16 2020 19:58
by thomasjdev
Joined on Tue, Feb 19 2019, Posts 7

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post

Under certain circumstances it might be advisable to use a panning device _before_ the signal enters MIR, either to re-center a pre-panned source, or to create a virtual ensemble (like Alan explains by means of the violin overdubs).

Hi Dietz,

Am I understand this correctly in the way MIR takes over the panning duty? If Alan Meyerson kept the panning default on each of the violin tracks he had and put a MIR insert on each track instead of the group you could achieve the similar result by tweaking each of the individual objects that would be represented on the MIR stage?

And a 2nd question. Is the choice between using MIR insert on each virtual instrument vs an instrument group come down to what sound you're trying to achieve and the sound sources your feeding into MIR?

Posted on Wed, Dec 16 2020 20:24
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7763

Like I wrote above: Yes, MIR is meant to take over all panning tasks, in stereo, surround, whatever. Positioning is mainly about panning and distance, and this is where MIR excels. Like I wrote an hour ago in another forum: 50% of MIR is having an instrument interact with the room _specifically_, dependent on its position and the way it emanates sound into all three dimensions. (... the other half would be the way the virtual microphone(s) capture this interaction.)

Vienna Instrument's Dimension Series are a good example: Of course it's possible to use one single, wide "Icon" (i.e. one instance) of MIR Pro for the whole section eight violin players. But as soon as you assign a single instance to each of them and spread them across a meaningful area of the stage, there will be an almost magical kind of increased "glue" between the eight players that's hard to achieve otherwise.

The answer to your second question is a simple "yes", but I should add that for MIR Pro 24-users grouping is a plausible way to deal with the restrictions of 24 instances. ;-)

HTH,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Dec 16 2020 23:43
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 811

Excellent video, nice to see both Dietz and Martin on video...

Love the "role" feature idea you hinted about Dietz.  Looking forward to hearing more...

Posted on Thu, Dec 17 2020 00:04
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7763

You have a good ear! :-D

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Thu, Dec 17 2020 01:03
by cgernaey
Joined on Mon, Apr 04 2005, Detroit-Michigan, Posts 1062

Of all the important things in that video, this was the most important to me that I picked up on as well :).  Can't wait to see how that works giving each instrument it's own personal relationship with a microphone!

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Posted on Thu, Dec 17 2020 01:06
by thomasjdev
Joined on Tue, Feb 19 2019, Posts 7

Thank you for the reply. I really do appreciate your willingness to keep sharing how this all works even though newbies like me probably ask you the same question(s) over and over.

Posted on Thu, Dec 17 2020 09:06
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7763

Originally Posted by: cgernaey Go to Quoted Post

Of all the important things in that video, this was the most important to me that I picked up on as well :).  Can't wait to see how that works giving each instrument it's own personal relationship with a microphone!

We don't know yet in every detail how all the loose parts will fit together in the end, but the basic idea is to give the user the possibility to create his/her "customised MIRx" for any Venue, so to speak. I coined the provisional term "Roles" for this concept. A trivial example: The same sample set can have the "Role" of Vi1 or Vi2. The positioning parameters will vary in different Venues, but due to the "Role" assigned by the user the Icon will find its related positions (again pre-defined by the user) when switching Venues or Venue presets.

... but I'm talking about things at a much too early stage right now. Please keep in mind that this is work-in-progress which I won't discuss further ATM. Thanks for your patience!

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, Dec 19 2020 19:50
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 316

The video was very good and informative. Thank you! And we could see and hear Dietz in person. I only "knew" him from the MIR venue photos. :)

Actually, I don't understand that "role" feature, but I'm really looking forward to an updated MIR Pro and that we would be able to make our own MIRx settings.

I really like the MIRx Synchron settings. Very well done, Dietz! But somehow I would be very interested how an Alan Meyerson "Hollywood" MIRx would sound like. I guess not that much of a difference, but who knows. Different engineer, different taste, different ears. And Alan said he works longer at his home studio, trying out things and that he don't need to be paid ... so when can we expect his MIRx settings? ;P Or maybe a tutorial?

Posted on Sat, Dec 19 2020 20:36
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7763

Thanks for our friendly words! Highly appreciated.

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985 Go to Quoted Post

[...] But somehow I would be very interested how an Alan Meyerson "Hollywood" MIRx would sound like. I guess not that much of a difference, but who knows. Different engineer, different taste, different ears. And Alan said he works longer at his home studio, trying out things and that he don't need to be paid ... so when can we expect his MIRx settings? ;P Or maybe a tutorial?

:-D ... yesyesyes, brilliant idea! We'll ask Alan to do six weeks of mining work for free! Sounds like a plan.

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sun, Dec 20 2020 14:05
by Pixelpoet1985
Joined on Fri, Dec 23 2016, Germany, Posts 316

Originally Posted by: Dietz Go to Quoted Post

Thanks for our friendly words! Highly appreciated.

Originally Posted by: Pixelpoet1985 Go to Quoted Post

[...] But somehow I would be very interested how an Alan Meyerson "Hollywood" MIRx would sound like. I guess not that much of a difference, but who knows. Different engineer, different taste, different ears. And Alan said he works longer at his home studio, trying out things and that he don't need to be paid ... so when can we expect his MIRx settings? ;P Or maybe a tutorial?

:-D ... yesyesyes, brilliant idea! We'll ask Alan to do six weeks of mining work for free! Sounds like a plan.

Haha... but, wait, I forgot that "he actually has no technical skills" and "knows nothing". :D

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