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Dorico articulations
Last post Mon, Jan 04 2021 by bogdan, 15 replies.
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Posted on Wed, Dec 30 2020 19:12
by bogdan
Joined on Fri, Apr 18 2008, Canada/ Edmonton , Posts 286

 

Hi everybody,

Has anyone tried to use the Synchron-ized Special Edition expression maps for Dorico 3.5 and get to switch from col legno to arco,  without getting sul ponticello instead for Solo Violin ?  I have this constant issue and cannot get to switch back to arco no matter how I arrange the music....

The articulation chain is this : sul pont., col legno and arco. The issue is that the arco is not played, but sul pont instead. 

Any hints would be greatly apreciated,

Thanks 

 PS: it seems that if you attach legato to the notes, it cancels the sul. pont and plays arco , but  if the notes are detached , the sull pont. gets over.  I have thought that I solved the issue, but it still persists...

Posted on Thu, Dec 31 2020 17:40
by bogdan
Joined on Fri, Apr 18 2008, Canada/ Edmonton , Posts 286

No one can give it a try ? 

Posted on Thu, Dec 31 2020 18:16
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 1151

I can confirm that after sul pont. and then col legno, recalling arco actually recalls sul pont.. It also happens when there are other articulations instead of col legno.

Paolo

Posted on Thu, Dec 31 2020 18:41
by bogdan
Joined on Fri, Apr 18 2008, Canada/ Edmonton , Posts 286

Thank you Paolo,

I was trying to use various articulations after, and I ran into the same problems as you described. I'm happy though that it can be replicated, since I thought that I have done something wrong :) 

Thanks again !

Posted on Thu, Dec 31 2020 21:13
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 1151

A solution could be to change the sul pont playback technique to an attribute, instead of a direction. If it's the glyph, I think this would also make sense.

If it is the sul pont text expression, it is clearly a direction. But you can make an exception with it, by making it an attribute, and extending it up to the next technique.

In any case, I suspect a bug somewhere.

Paolo

Posted on Thu, Dec 31 2020 21:23
by bogdan
Joined on Fri, Apr 18 2008, Canada/ Edmonton , Posts 286

Thanks again Paolo,

I'll try this definetely. I suspect a bug too; let's hope Andi will hop in and modify the expression map accordingly !

Posted on Sat, Jan 02 2021 14:16
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 1151

Originally Posted by: bogdan Go to Quoted Post

I'll try this definetely. I suspect a bug too; let's hope Andi will hop in and modify the expression map accordingly !

More than the expression map, I suspect it is more how Dorico manage articulations. Sometimes, adding a 'nat' before another articulation, or where a direction-type articulation should end, can solve some of the missing articulation change issues.

Paolo

Posted on Sat, Jan 02 2021 19:51
by bogdan
Joined on Fri, Apr 18 2008, Canada/ Edmonton , Posts 286

Hi again,

Yes , it does the trick , thanks a lot. The only issue that still persists is with harmonics ..I'll try various combinations to see if it works ...up to this point , still no...

Posted on Sat, Jan 02 2021 22:02
by bogdan
Joined on Fri, Apr 18 2008, Canada/ Edmonton , Posts 286

Just realized I was responding to David on Dorico forum , but nevertheless the issue described there is  the same ..

Posted on Sun, Jan 03 2021 05:17
by bogdan
Joined on Fri, Apr 18 2008, Canada/ Edmonton , Posts 286

 Hi Paolo,

A I previously said, here and on Dorico forum, the harmonics are not working in my file (Solo Violin + and VSL expression map) ...I have tried to use after the col legno , ord., nat., modo ordinario and arco , on a rest in a previous measure, but still the articulation is not switching to harmonics ( natural ones). I suspect is just my novice ( basic) understanding of how things work in Dorico, since you were saying that you have no problems ....

If you can tell how you are doing, to make this thing work, that would be great !

Posted on Sun, Jan 03 2021 11:36
by lunar_28664
Joined on Wed, Jun 20 2007, Posts 104

the harmonics don't work as they have been incorrectly mapped. The "o"for harmonics requires an entry "natural harmonic 1" but in the supplied Expression Map they are set to "artificial harmonics". These lines must be edited to match the Dorico assigned articulation. I've explained in a little more detail on the Dorico forum.

Posted on Sun, Jan 03 2021 21:49
by bogdan
Joined on Fri, Apr 18 2008, Canada/ Edmonton , Posts 286

Many thanks to David and Paul,

Everything works now !

Posted on Mon, Jan 04 2021 10:32
by andi
Joined on Wed, Feb 18 2004, Vienna, Posts 3433

Hello Bogdan and lunar_28664!

You are right about the harmonics. Dorico 3.5 always uses the "Natural Harmonic 1" expression for harmonics, even when you add an artificial harmonic to your score. The harmonics included in the SYNCHRON-ized Special Edition PLUS collections are artificial harmonics. That's why these expressions have been added to the expression maps. I will add "Natural harmonics 1" expressions for the next update as well.

Best regards,
Andi

Andreas Olszewski
Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Jan 04 2021 17:40
by lunar_28664
Joined on Wed, Jun 20 2007, Posts 104

Exactly what I though had probably happened. As the SE only supports artificial harmonics, it is natural to want the EM entry to show that but as the "o" which actually does the double duty of natural and artificial harmonics uses the natural harmonics 1 p.t, you need to use that in the EM even though the VSL isn't supplying one in the first place . Of course a new playing technique could be created to match the EM but this seems the more complicated of the options and Andi's plan should certainly put this one to bed.

David

Posted on Mon, Jan 04 2021 18:05
by bogdan
Joined on Fri, Apr 18 2008, Canada/ Edmonton , Posts 286

Thanks Andi,

As David explained ( myself being totally new to Dorico's system) , harmonics still can be made to work properly, but with your input and updated Emap, everything would work accordingly !Thanks for taking the time to read through.

All best ,

Bogdan 

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