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Posted on Wed, Mar 31 2021 15:50
by Mark K
Joined on Mon, Mar 29 2021, Posts 12

I would like some help in understanding what the insert input command does and what the options are. I would be glad to be referred to any documentation on the subject. When I look at the user manual in the channel discussion, this functionality is not described.

Specifically, when I select insert input, then channel, then instrument, it brings up a list with the instrument name (kontakt in this case), numbered from 2-59. 

What do those numbers 2-59 represent? 

Posted on Wed, Mar 31 2021 18:18
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5621
An input is normally an audio input so not an instrument. A VST can be inserted with a different icon nearby. Once you click that the available VSTs
will be shown.
Posted on Thu, Apr 01 2021 02:31
by Mark K
Joined on Mon, Mar 29 2021, Posts 12

Thanks for your information. Yes, the audio option looks pretty straight forward, its the channel side that I have questions about.

I noted that with Kontakt it offered 59 different--whatever they are-- to select from. I added the spitfire player and that one only exposed I think 15 options numbered 1 2 through 1 16. Now these could be imagined to be additional mid channels for port 1, but the 59 options in kontakt exceeds the number of midi channels, of course. I could not find any configuration maximum of 59 anywhere, so I am puzzled. I note that the kontakt player, being vst2, is limited to 16 midi channels in terms of what it can accept from hardware or a daw.

Once one of these inputs is created, there are no longer input boxes where one can set the midi port and channel, so its a very different input from the ones created when an instrument is added.

Posted on Thu, Apr 01 2021 03:09
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5621

Well to clarify what I was saying there are in Vienna Ensemble 4 things you can load - VI, Synchron, VST, and Audio input. When you say  "input" it sounds like you are talking about audio.  You seem to be actually talking about VST plug-ins if its Kontakt. So you would load a VST into Vienna Ensemble and select Kontakt. Then you select the MIDI port and channel at the top of the mixer in VE.  Then you need to go into whatever Kontakt instrument you load and select what port you have activated in Kontakt, and the channel that corresponds to the channel selected in VE.  It is dependent on Kontakt having been configured to have the correct ports active.  But that should allow playing of any Kontakt instrument you wish, one to each VST instance  - though you can set up multis on one channel if you want several playing from the same channel.  Anyway that's how I do it to add a Kontakt instrument into Vienna Ensemble.  

Posted on Thu, Apr 01 2021 18:09
by Mark K
Joined on Mon, Mar 29 2021, Posts 12

I have loaded kontakt and it works on my daw through VEP. I have included a screen capture of the option I am referring to and how I got there. I hope its visually clear enough to see what is being done. This was one of the options for the add channel dialogue box.

What I want to learn is what is being selected when I select one of those kontakt items in the list. From what I can find its not documented in the manual, but is a function and I did see someone use it in one youtube video. I don't want to take people's time, I am glad to read documentation on it, but thus far I cannot find documentation. The user manual even has a 'channel overview', and its nice as far as it goes, but I would like to go to a 'channel detail' chapter of the manual.

Mark K attached the following image(s):
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Posted on Thu, Apr 01 2021 20:25
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5621

OK, I was referring to Vienna Ensemble Pro,  not the Vienna Pro server. 

Posted on Tue, Apr 06 2021 08:00
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12636

Hi, 

So you see "Channel number 2" in your sequencer, with Kontakt 1 and its available outputs => "2 Kontakt 1 X". 

You can use those available outputs of Kontakt to route them to separate channels by adding Input channels. 

Does that help?

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Apr 07 2021 01:44
by Mark K
Joined on Mon, Mar 29 2021, Posts 12

Thank you for the answer, Paul. I understand that these objects are audio outputs added to the VEP instance mixer. I had been thinking of them as MIDI inputs, which is not correct. So I am closer to an understanding.

I can add one of these channel inputs to the instance and it is added to the mixer, so I see how it is an output. In the settings I have for VEP, it is set to 32 audio outputs maximum. When I add the VEP instrument to Studio One, I see that it shows these 32 outputs--so that ties out.

What I am having trouble understanding is how I can map the kontakt outputs to these 'channel input' channels. Maybe they are sequentially assigned to match the kontakt output list in the kontakt instrument. If so, I would not expect to see 58 options in the channel input add, as that exceeds the 32 that is set in the VEP preferences.

I will look for more youtube videos on the subject now that I know I am looking for output mapping concepts.

I also fixed my forum user handle.

Posted on Wed, Apr 07 2021 07:51
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12636

Hi Mark, 

Did you find the small "+" sign next to your Kontakt volume slider already?

Routing in Studio One is explained in the VE Pro Manual. 

Best.
Paul

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Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Apr 07 2021 13:08
by Mark K
Joined on Mon, Mar 29 2021, Posts 12

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post
Hi Mark, Did you find the small "+" sign next to your Kontakt volume slider already? Routing in Studio One is explained in the VE Pro Manual. Best. Paul

Yes I see the + sign and it makes sense to me now.

Thank you again for explaining this. I believe I have a sufficient understanding of this functionality.  I am a software developer so I like to get a precise understanding of things, and I am willing to read the documentation. I have some suggestions to help convey this functionality in the future:

1) To me, sound coming from a VI is considered an output, and the fact that it is called an input lead me to think it was midi as that is the input to a VI. Once I knew it was an output, I did find the section of the VEP manual that discusses multi-output VIs like Kontakt and that helped.

2) The global setting in my VEP has 32 channels of audio output as the maximum. The add channel input presents a total of 59 channels to select from for kontakt. It looks like only 32 of those would actually available as outputs due to vep settings and perhaps studio one limitations--which is enough. I don't know how the number of 59 was arrived at, but it may be best if he GUI limit the number of additional outputs that can be added to the max audio channels -1. I looked more closely at Kontakt, and it appears it can expose a maximum of 64 audio outputs. Much of my confusion was because I could not figure out how the number of 59 total outputs (channel 'inputs') was arrived at. I note that the number of VI outputs exposed in Studio One is 32 which ties in to the maximum audio channels in the global settings, so that makes sense.

3)  If you had someone prepare maybe a single page explanation of this aspect of WEP, it may save time and help others understand this more quickly and not take your time to explain it in a forum.

Having said all that, my system with VEP on a network computer appears to be working very well, and I will be able to continue setting up instances and use it effectively. If any of my assumptions above are not accurate, I would be glad to learn the correct answers. I make assumptions here to try and reduce the amount of hand-holding I am asking for, to respect your time. Thanks again.

Posted on Fri, Apr 09 2021 03:10
by civilization 3
Joined on Sat, May 16 2009, SF Bay Area, Posts 1765

As to terms, Channel Input is a bus output from a multi-timbral (or in the case of VI Pro I'd say a quasi-multitimbral) instrument channel. When there is a source in a mixer paradigm it tends to be called 'Input'.

As to 32 stereo outputs... it seems like a fair number of people come into VE Pro land thinking 'If you got 'em, smoke 'em' with these outputs. The more prevalent paradigm for stereo outputs from a VE Pro, submixer paradigm, is Stems. How many 2-files (stereo audio files) do you need? 32 is quite a high number for that, and it's resource intensive in a way the software is not using fewer outs. But there is no necessary correlation, Kontakt exposing n outs to the host VE Pro vis VE Pro exposing n outs to a DAW host. 
IE: my preferences are to expose 4 stereo outs to Cubase and allow 4 stereo ins via Audio Input. I mix with its automation. Sometimes I want to render audio before a final mix, but 4 covers all my use cases (I compartmentalize).

 

I wonder if Kontakt exposes 63 to Channel Input in Surround mode. One of the default configurations is 5.1. ;)

MacBook Pro 16,1: 2.3 GHz 8-core i9
64GB 2667MHz DDR4
OSX 10.15.6
VE Pro 7, Cubase Pro 11.0.20
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