Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Forum Jump  
!! SYNCHRON BRASS !!
Last post Tue, Sep 28 2021 by PaoloT, 41 replies.
Options
Go to last post
3 Pages<123>
Posted on Fri, Jul 23 2021 11:48
by Guin
Joined on Tue, May 27 2014, Posts 4

Originally Posted by: Viktor Go to Quoted Post

Comparing to VI Brass1 and Brass2 will Synchron Brass be really important upgade? If anyone of VSL users made this comparison? I´d like to hear what changes (improvements) in sound and articulations this upgrade will mean. Thank you

I have most of the VI standard instruments from Brass 1 and Brass 2 (through MIRx Synchron Stage Extension) and the Synchron Brass.

If you already tried any of the Synchron Strings libraries, you know there is certainly a difference in terms of depth and three dimensional immersion of the patches.

Same happens with the new Synchron Brass. I'd say the biggest selling point for me is the way the overall sound saturates when going for higher dynamics: it's completely different to have multiple mics recording this instead of recreating it through a single position.

The second selling point might be a dedicated Low Brass patch, instead of recreating it using individual instruments.

That said, IMHO, any of the individual instruments from the VI series still works beautifully combined with the Synchron library. Think I might be too familiar to how they sound and handle to let them go.

Posted on Fri, Jul 23 2021 15:11
by Viktor
Joined on Tue, Nov 05 2013, Posts 22

Thank you for replying, I have some VI libraries, this month completed Symphonic Cube and really go for the VSL sound, I liked the sound of Synchron libraries too (have Elite Strings and Synchron Strings Pro), some Synchronized libraries as well, but finished using VI libraries with MIRx as they integrate flawlessly almost with any other sound or library. I´m yet thinking on buying Synchron Brass (as I was impressed by its sound). Thanks! 

Posted on Wed, Jul 28 2021 16:48
by Seventh Sam
Joined on Sat, Dec 29 2018, Posts 323

Originally Posted by: Viktor Go to Quoted Post

Comparing to VI Brass1 and Brass2 will Synchron Brass be really important upgade? If anyone of VSL users made this comparison? I´d like to hear what changes (improvements) in sound and articulations this upgrade will mean. Thank you

VI Brass 1 and 2 are very "classical" sounding, while Synchron Brass is decidedly "cinematic".  I'd hesitate to call Synchron Brass an "upgrade".  I think it's more appropriate to say it's complimentary and fulfills a different sonic purpose.

When comparing the two, I think these are the most useful observations:

- VI Brass is dry, and therefore more flexibly used in a variety of situations.  Synchron Brass is not dry, so it's stuck in the Synchron Stage.  However, that stage - along with the absurdly large ensemble sizes - gives the sound an incredible "thunderclap" effect that is very, very difficult (if not impossible) to replicate digitally.  This is most noticable in the short notes.

- VI Brass is comprehensive when it comes to articulations.  Synchron Brass is made up of both originally recorded material and material taken from BBO products.  While the structure of the keyswitching remains constant throughout, it also means that certain patches lack certain things.  For example, the most noticable omission is that the 9 Trombones don't have a legato patch (as they were originally recorded for use in BBO, which is not meant to be as detailed or comprehensive as other product lines).

- VI Brass does not contain anything like the Low Brass patch in Synchron Brass (Which is also available as single BBO libraries).  Since that patch was recorded in unison and in situ, it has an extraordinarily powerful sound.

- Synchron Brass introduces a seemingly small but amazing feature called "Timbre Adjust" which is essentially a custom filter control designed specifically for these brass instruments.  This, along with very smooth velocity layers and crossfading, makes the dynamic control of the whole library *extremely* responsive, playable, and smooth.

Hope that helps inform your decision!

Posted on Wed, Jul 28 2021 17:09
by Seventh Sam
Joined on Sat, Dec 29 2018, Posts 323

Paul and VSL,

My thoughts on the library:

The sound of the library is fantastic: powerful, thunderous, clean.  A major problem with sampled brass - seamless dynamics - is handled extraordinarily well here.  Not only is the VelXF very, very smooth, but the Timbre Adjust feature is quite possibly the best part.  The difference it makes can't be understated.  The solo instruments are impressive and expressive (esp. the first trumpet), and being able to layer them into the ensembles easily makes the library much more extensive.

Since the library is an amalgamation of previously recorded material, I can very much hear the difference in the legato patches between the older Big Bang Stuff and the new material recorded for this library specifically.  Namely, the ever-difficult "ambient legato" has been improved over time.  This unfortunately means certain ensembles are more flexible/playable than others, but it also bodes well for future libraries (namely, Synchron Woodwinds which will absolutely need great legato patches to work well, esp. at fast tempos).

That said, I'd like to make two requests:

1) If possible, update the library with newly recorded legato patches for the 9 Trombone Ensemble.  For a premium library at this price point, the lack of this patch seems like a glaring omission.  I realize that's quite a task, but I figured I might as well make the request as you've done similar things before (i.e. Cantabile Violins).

2) The Timbre Adjust feature is incredible, but so far only works as intended with the Synchron Brass library.  As you continue to update Synchron Player, it would be fantastic for the Timbre Adjust feature to be updated to work its magic with past releases as well (like Synchron Strings Pro/Elite, and perhaps even the SYN-zed libraries).

Posted on Sat, Jul 31 2021 14:50
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 1190

Originally Posted by: PaoloT Go to Quoted Post

I'm surprised not to see the Synchronized Dimension Brass in promo. They would be a great match with the new Synchron Brass! :)

Xing my fingers for the next days' promo change. DimBrass are a great way to get the missing solo instruments!

Paolo

Posted on Sat, Jul 31 2021 15:09
by muziksculp
Joined on Fri, Oct 03 2003, U.S.A., Posts 442

Has the Intro. Price been extended to August 15th ?  

I didn't get the Newsletter email informing me of this, but someone mentioned it. The product page doesn't show this, maybe they will post this change tomorrow. 

Posted on Sat, Jul 31 2021 16:39
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 1190

@Paul, is the Synchron Brass Update02 including the Update01? I didn't update it, so I wonder if I have to look for the older update as well.

Paolo

Posted on Mon, Aug 02 2021 09:06
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12892

Hi, 

Yes, newer updates always include previous updates, as written on top of every Library Update Info.

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Aug 02 2021 16:10
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 1190

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

Yes, newer updates always include previous updates, as written on top of every Library Update Info.

Thanx, Paul! I had always missed that sentence. Cleaning up my folders!

Paolo

Posted on Tue, Aug 17 2021 02:36
by Viktor
Joined on Tue, Nov 05 2013, Posts 22

Thank you for replying, just bought this library and really can say that the sound is amazing!

Posted on Tue, Aug 17 2021 10:01
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 1190

Originally Posted by: Seventh Sam Go to Quoted Post

- VI Brass does not contain anything like the Low Brass patch in Synchron Brass (Which is also available as single BBO libraries).  Since that patch was recorded in unison and in situ, it has an extraordinarily powerful sound.

Actually, Dimension Brass contained a Low Brass section. Only, you could access the separate components. But they were recorded all together.

Paolo

Posted on Wed, Aug 18 2021 11:22
by Seventh Sam
Joined on Sat, Dec 29 2018, Posts 323

Originally Posted by: PaoloT Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Seventh Sam Go to Quoted Post

- VI Brass does not contain anything like the Low Brass patch in Synchron Brass (Which is also available as single BBO libraries).  Since that patch was recorded in unison and in situ, it has an extraordinarily powerful sound.

Actually, Dimension Brass contained a Low Brass section. Only, you could access the separate components. But they were recorded all together.

Paolo

I know.  I was comparing to the specific "Brass I" and "Brass II" bundles, as that's what Viktor asked about (I think?)

Posted on Mon, Aug 23 2021 01:11
by markbatuer
Joined on Tue, Nov 15 2011, Posts 22
Hi Paul
I have used Synchron Brass for a while and it has such good sounds.
I found that Sforzato and sforzatissimo cannot respond to velocity and VelXF. Is this made on purpose?

In Other libraries the sfz and sfzz patches are responding to velocity and VelXF. I think this is still useful e.g. when playing Sforzato or sforzatissimo, sometimes it needs to be drag down to create more realistic dynamic at the right time in progress. So could this feature be added back in synchron brass as in other libraries? In that case, to users they have one more choice on how to use patches, to the libraries they have the same logic in controls.

Thanks!
Posted on Mon, Aug 23 2021 06:03
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12892

Hi Mark, 

Glad you like Synchron Brass!

We have limited the dynamic range of this articulation to make it fit better with the rest of the articulations. You can easily adjust the volume with Expression (CC11), if you like. 

Hope that works for you!

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Aug 23 2021 06:48
by markbatuer
Joined on Tue, Nov 15 2011, Posts 22
Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post
Hi Mark,
Glad you like Synchron Brass!
We have limited the dynamic range of this articulation to make it fit better with the rest of the articulations. You can easily adjust the volume with Expression (CC11), if you like.
Hope that works for you!
Best,Paul


Hi Paul

Thanks for quick reply. I did use CC11.

But, what if I use this two articulations in customized stack patches e.g. Sforzato+Sus, Sforzatissimo +Crescendo to make something I need. What I want is when I press harder I get more powerful note attack, the less hard the less note attack, this should be under control. But since this two articulations wouldn’t response to the velocity and VelXF control, I wouldn’t get what I want. I know someone would use staccato instead but that sounds not natural as Sforzato and Sforzatissimo. REALLY wish this could be add back.

Thanks again for reply.
Posted on Mon, Aug 23 2021 12:05
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12892

Hi Mark, 

Here is the philosophy behind this decision: 

We are generally avoiding Velocity XFade for alle articulations with only one layer, also because 2 identical layers would have to be triggered, which doubles the voice count - a considerable fact with our multi-mic libraries. 

Psychoacoustics is a big topic for all libraries that were recorded in a big hall like our Vienna Synchron Stage (and that room-sound is an integral part of the sound). Changing the perceived volume of an articulation isn't something we'd suggest to do, which is why the difference between Velocity 1 and 127 is only 3 dB for those articulations. 

In our eyes, this is also a question of workflow, as you can generate any kind of dynamic change by using the Expression Controller, which is the main task of this controller anyway. 

"Timbre Adjust" will be an even better option at this point, with it's very natural dynamic changes. 

I believe that you could achieve the results you are after by using 2 MIDI Channels, with the sfz on one channel, triggering Timbre Adjust with your player Velocity. Definitely worth a try. 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Aug 23 2021 13:19
by markbatuer
Joined on Tue, Nov 15 2011, Posts 22

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

Hi Mark, 

Here is the philosophy behind this decision: 

We are generally avoiding Velocity XFade for alle articulations with only one layer, also because 2 identical layers would have to be triggered, which doubles the voice count - a considerable fact with our multi-mic libraries. 

Psychoacoustics is a big topic for all libraries that were recorded in a big hall like our Vienna Synchron Stage (and that room-sound is an integral part of the sound). Changing the perceived volume of an articulation isn't something we'd suggest to do, which is why the difference between Velocity 1 and 127 is only 3 dB for those articulations. 

In our eyes, this is also a question of workflow, as you can generate any kind of dynamic change by using the Expression Controller, which is the main task of this controller anyway. 

"Timbre Adjust" will be an even better option at this point, with it's very natural dynamic changes. 

I believe that you could achieve the results you are after by using 2 MIDI Channels, with the sfz on one channel, triggering Timbre Adjust with your player Velocity. Definitely worth a try. 

Best, 
Paul

Hi Paul

 

Thanks for the very detailed explanations about this. That would be helpful and I will try what you suggested. 

The "Timbre Adjust" is a very cool feature. Love this library. Thanks again.

Posted on Tue, Aug 24 2021 15:50
by DaddyO
Joined on Tue, May 22 2012, Washington (US State), Posts 406

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

...

We are generally avoiding Velocity XFade for all articulations with only one layer, also because 2 identical layers would have to be triggered, which doubles the voice count - a considerable fact with our multi-mic libraries. 

Paul,

Does this explain the multiple preset types in recent libraries like SSP, SES and SY Brass? Types like VelXF, XF sus, Velocity, etc.? It seems like the labels are not consistent between libraries, and it seems like this has been a process developing over time as libraries continue to be released. Is Timbre Adjust is one more element in that process, one we might see commonly in future libraries?

For planning purposes going forward, your comment suggests that, while they will work with the appropriate preset, the straight XF presets may not be the best if VSL is now "avoiding" them. Is there a fuller explanation that might help customers like me be sure that their custom Synchron presets and DAW expression maps are based on the most enduring approach. A lot of work goes into these, and I'd hate to have to replace everything I've done because I'm used the Vel XF only. Nevertheless, if that's the direction, I'd rather make the changes now than face a larger project later.

Thanks for any advice you can give.

SY Strings Pro, Elite Strings. Brass. Perc I, Smart Orchestra
SYzd Woodwinds, Solo Strings, SpecEds 1-4 PLUS
VI Symphonic Cube Full
Cubase 11, Studio One 5, Dorico 3.5
VE Pro 7, MIR Pro, VI Pro, MIRx
Windows 10, i5-9600K, 64GB
Posted on Tue, Aug 24 2021 16:06
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12892

Hi DaddyO,

My comment was ONLY aiming at Velocity XFade for single-velocity patches like sfz, sorry about the confusion. 

Here is an explanation of the different variations of our presets.
The naming is consistent and will stay like this. We will add the same preset structure to previous products with the switch to iLok. 

Velocity XFade is still THE go-to option for dynamic control for all our libraries, with Timbre Adjust being a great addition for Synchron Brass that adds even more control. If you like Timbre Adjust for your custom presets, you can of course add it!

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Aug 24 2021 20:10
by DaddyO
Joined on Tue, May 22 2012, Washington (US State), Posts 406

Ah, thanks for clarifying, Paul. I'm sure it's my being too ready to extrapolate from your comments.

SY Strings Pro, Elite Strings. Brass. Perc I, Smart Orchestra
SYzd Woodwinds, Solo Strings, SpecEds 1-4 PLUS
VI Symphonic Cube Full
Cubase 11, Studio One 5, Dorico 3.5
VE Pro 7, MIR Pro, VI Pro, MIRx
Windows 10, i5-9600K, 64GB
3 Pages<123>
You cannot post new threads in this forum.
You cannot reply to threads in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.