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Graphics and features not functioning on several products
Last post Fri, Jul 23 2021 by toodamnhip, 7 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Jul 19 2021 06:49
by toodamnhip
Joined on Sat, Jun 09 2012, Posts 83

I am experiencing graphics problems, and along with them, an inability to access the pages of functionality of these programs.

It is not all 3rd party VIS, just some of them. While not a complete list, so far: Kirk Hunter Kinetic Motion Strings/8Dio Terminus, Blackbird Drums etc.

Some programs have scrambled graphics, others, like 8Dio Terminus, show the initial screen, but when clicking "enter", the word glows but doesn't open anything. These same programs work fine INSIDE of Digital Performer, but not on Ve Pro in either my Mac or PC???

I am on a 2013 Mac Pro-OS 10.14.6, Ve Pro 7.0.1056.

Please advise....David 

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OS 10.10.3 DP 9.0
Posted on Mon, Jul 19 2021 10:52
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12761

Hi David, 

Please connect your instances and everything will be ok.

That's an ancient Kontakt bug... 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Jul 19 2021 12:06
by toodamnhip
Joined on Sat, Jun 09 2012, Posts 83

Originally Posted by: Paul Go to Quoted Post

Hi David, 

Please connect your instances and everything will be ok.

That's an ancient Kontakt bug... 

Best, 
Paul

BAM Paul! You nailed it! I guess there will be no more testing things in VE Pro without being "connected". Once in awhile you get to solve a problem with on perfect answer, that was it...thank you.

I love your product bro, but on another matter, one thing you guys gotta do in Vienna is create some way to resolve Hang Ups by ONE silly VI. I have a B room computer that sometimes saves my butt by opening Vienna Files that won't open in my newer computer. But this show a huge Achilles heel in VE Pro, it can get hung by ONE stupid program. I am about to embark upon making some huge templates for film and I am terrified that I will have some big score template, or song, and have it hang because some company changes something in their software ...hanging Ve Pro. You guys HAVE TO make some sort of escape hatch capability. Some sort of shelf diagnostic user capability to SEE what is hanging, and BYPASS it. It must drive composer absolutely crazy when their projects hang and they don't know which program or why and they are helpless or have to send in the file to you guys to figure it out. This makes Vienna terribly vulnerable and unreliable. I say this out of much respect for your product my brother. In the meantime, if you have any secrets for sussing out a HANG UP, Im all ears. Thanks for your help :) Dave

OS 10.10.3 DP 9.0
Posted on Mon, Jul 19 2021 12:34
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12761

Hi Dave, 

Glad to hear that this helped!

Regarding hangs: VE Pro is "only" a host and does. not have any influence on the loading or unloading (deacllocation) process of loaded plug-ins... 

We can do our best to find out what exactly is going on, but if, e.g., a loading thread of Kontakt hangs for some reason, it is close to impossible to find out what is causing this, also because it is a dynamic process that is hard to reproduce. 

If you can send us a reliably reproducible scenario, chances are much better...  the address is !

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Jul 19 2021 22:50
by toodamnhip
Joined on Sat, Jun 09 2012, Posts 83

Hey Paul,

Just want to make sure Im clear as possible, I don't really want VSL to "find out what's causing" a failure to load. I just want VE Pro to be aware it is hanging and be able to BYPASS that plug and load the rest. In such a scenario, the plug that failed would appear greyed out or something, after loading the rest of its plugs/VIs. Then. a user can see the problematic plug and decide to save-as after removing it. From your end, you are more technical than I am, understood. But from a USER end, we don't care. We dont want to be kneecapped by a plug in. We dont want to have a huge template we rely upon fail due to, in my case, Mach 5. (I found out that <ach 5 wasn't understanding its own dumb library, and it was waiting for an answer as to WHERE its sounds are. On my 2010 cheese grater, it load with error. On my trash can, VE ro just hangs). So from the idea of "what's needed and wanted by end users", I think this kind of software escape hatch, knowledge that it is failing etc,..would be a HUGELY appreciated improvement.

Are you saying when VE Pro hangs, the Vienna software itself has no idea it is hanging up? I would think it possible to program into the software some self awareness, some timed "call" to itself that says, "hung for 3 minutes=failure"...and the length of wait time could even be user definable in the event certain plugs take longer). So after a certain time out period,  the software could be programmed to bypass that plug in and move on.  The idea that a whole score or movie could DIE because one plug in screws up is a terrible thought.

This concept not only applies to VE Pro, but to any software. Vienna isn't the only company that has this issue. All DAWs do too. I think its a universal need in all audio software. Not being a programmer, I am clueless as to HOW to do this. But it is the end users and their demands for features that drive any software market, and I feel it's long overdue for "Host" software of all kinds to start becoming aware of itself just enough to know it is HUNG..and have some sort of escape hatch to avoid the whole process failing.  Is it THAt hard? It can't be programmed to notice a time out of more than a certain interval and ACT on it? Perhaps you could explain in simple terms? Because I dont understand it very well. Thanks for going off topic with me..but this is an vital issue. Also, if I may go off subject again, I would like to request Ve Pro to work with Waves plug ins. My guess is Waves wants to charge too much $ for licensing or something? Cheers :) David

OS 10.10.3 DP 9.0
Posted on Thu, Jul 22 2021 11:39
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12761

Hi David, 

Some things are more complex than it appears, and if there is trouble for everyone out there, there's probably a good reason for it. 

Here's an explanation from our development team: 

"In most (99%) of cases, plug-ins hang the main thread, while either constructing the plug-in, or loading data. It is not possible to terminate the main thread.

In the rare case of a processing thread hang, it could be possible to terminate the processing thread and recreate it, but the state of the plug-in and its interactions with the system would be left in an unknown, possibly corrupted state.

You would not be certain about the state of the plug-in after terminating such a thread - and saving a project after a thread has been terminated may lead to corruption, or main thread hang."

Hope that helps a bit. If we figure out a solution to this system-related problematic, we will share it with the world!

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Jul 23 2021 03:16
by toodamnhip
Joined on Sat, Jun 09 2012, Posts 83

Hey Paul, I really appreciate that you asked the developers for me.

I guess I would recommend a redesign of the product then. Its a great product, dont get me wrong. I have sent a lot of business your way over the years as VE Pro is the most efficient VI hosting software out there, period!

But Its the users that drive things in the long run, not technical limitations. The "long run" would be a VI hosting software where ONE failed plug could NEVER ruin a whole movie score. There must be a way to design some sort of fail safe examination protocol. For example, In my Source audio music page, when uploading my spreadsheet, it examines the CSV file first, spots any issues, lets you change the source CSV file, and only imports after all is well. Though undoubtedly more complex, it might be nice for VE Pro to have such an examination PRE process. Or, Vienna could add a utility program that would look inside any saved VE file, and examine the components parts BEFORE attempting to open the MAIN Ve Pro file. Perhaps, if it discovers plug in #3 is failing, the utility would also have the capability to take out that failed plug in, or bypass its loading. It cannot be acceptable to anyone, Vienna, or users, to be subject to catastrophic failure on any given day. This is the state of VE Pro now, great a program as it is. Of course, I do incremental back ups to minimize risk, but even with incremental back ups, if a program updates, and such an update creates a HANG for itself, that "hang" will effect all prior backups too. This happened to me when Toontrack changed something about the way it named its EZ drummer. You guys managed to help me, (thank you!), but my project was down for several days waiting. All of this means what it means=any elaborate or simple VE Pro file can die any time. Not a good feeling for us composers. Imagine so many 3rd party plugs and VIs being updated without consulting or testing at Vienna....this makes for a potential "instant death" of the project file, anytime. That cannot be something considered a "minor" problem, and I am surprised more users have not realized the danger of this issue. Whatever you guys did to fix my broken EZ drummer shows there is a WAY to look inside the programming to find hang ups. That should be a utility program, not just from Vienna, but many other manufacturers too. In the day of weekly Apple OS updates, it is time safeguards get put in place. Will it be perfect? No. But the issue should be addressed. Thanks for your help over the years Paul..:) 

OS 10.10.3 DP 9.0
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