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Second violins on the right
Last post Fri, Oct 15 2021 by PaoloT, 11 replies.
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Posted on Fri, Oct 01 2021 15:49
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 1150

Hi,

I would like to experiment with 2nd Violins moved to the right. I remember Ben described how to do, but for some reason I can't find that thread.

Can someone point me to the procedure? I've put in this post both "second violins" and "2nd violins", so it should be easy to get back to it later.

Paolo

Posted on Fri, Oct 01 2021 16:39
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12817

Hi, 

Position the close and mid mics in the direction you want to place the players, and maybe adjust the general panning for the whole section a little bit, if necessary. 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Fri, Oct 01 2021 16:59
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 1150

Thank you, Paul, very easy!

Any need to also invert the phase of the room mics? Or would this be detrimental?

Paolo

Posted on Fri, Oct 01 2021 20:35
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 12817

Hi, 

It all depends on your picked mixer presets. If you are using the same preset for both sections, no need to invert the phase. 

Trust your ears ;-)

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, Oct 02 2021 10:14
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 1150

Thank you, Paul. As see with the Synchron Imperial, I understand that it is easy to change the pan of the room mics blending them with the close mics. Let's see what happens with such a radical change.

Paolo

Posted on Tue, Oct 05 2021 17:16
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 1150

I did my tests, and I admit it's an impressive acoustic effect.

Room mics do contain position information, but very much blended with the ambience, much more diffuse and less directional.

Add the mid, or even close mics, and you have the image move towards the spot/medium mics.

Paolo

Posted on Mon, Oct 11 2021 15:53
by richhickey
Joined on Wed, Nov 01 2017, Posts 52

Originally Posted by: PaoloT Go to Quoted Post

I did my tests, and I admit it's an impressive acoustic effect.

Room mics do contain position information, but very much blended with the ambience, much more diffuse and less directional.

Add the mid, or even close mics, and you have the image move towards the spot/medium mics.

Paolo

It's not the phase you need to switch, but you can swap L/R in the power pan of the tree/room mics to complete the effect. I've done this both for second violins and to move Synchron pianos around, with much success.

Posted on Mon, Oct 11 2021 16:35
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 1150

Originally Posted by: richhickey Go to Quoted Post

It's not the phase you need to switch, but you can swap L/R in the power pan of the tree/room mics to complete the effect.

Do you mean that I should move the L icon all to the right, and the R icon all to the left? So, it would not be inverting the phase, but moving the channel to the opposite side.

Paolo

Posted on Wed, Oct 13 2021 20:24
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 1150

Just wondering: isn't reversing the L and R channels the same as inverting the phase? The Power Pan would allow intermediate steps, but if completely wide, wouldn't it be the same?

Paolo

Posted on Thu, Oct 14 2021 18:38
by Macker
Joined on Tue, Aug 21 2018, London, Posts 354

Paolo, Richhickey's method of swapping L-R using Power Pan is very good. The Power Pan control itself does nothing in terms of signal-inversion (or so-called "phase-inversion"); I'm not sure why you're concerned about that.

The psychoacoustical realism achieved by the method comes largely from the direct-path L-R timing difference being reversed. That timing difference is one of the key factors that let our ears sense azimuth (known as the "precedence" effect).

Posted on Fri, Oct 15 2021 00:00
by PaoloT
Joined on Tue, Dec 27 2016, Posts 1150

Originally Posted by: Macker Go to Quoted Post

I'm not sure why you're concerned about that.

Just a moment of brain meltdown. Thank you for bringing me back to reality!

Paolo

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