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Using second server with iLok
Last post Mon, Oct 17 2022 by ANeeman, 24 replies.
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Posted on Mon, Apr 04 2022 14:01
by ANeeman
Joined on Wed, Sep 25 2019, Latvia, Posts 30

Hi!

Successfully transferred licenses to iLok world. Everything works great, but probably I have misunderstood something...

I have two VEPro7 licenses just to run one on my laptop and second on my desktop. Having two Steinberg dongles I managed that one dongle has one license. But the user/account was the same.

Now I have both licenses in one cloud and can activate cloud only on one computer.

So my analytic mind tells me that I should create another iLok account and transfer second license of VEPro7 to it.

Is this the only way or is there something else to do?

Posted on Mon, Apr 04 2022 14:36
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 983
I don’t think you need a second iLok account. Just install iLok on the second machine, pull up your existing account and use the cloud
Posted on Mon, Apr 04 2022 17:20
by ANeeman
Joined on Wed, Sep 25 2019, Latvia, Posts 30

I already did that. Everything installed on both machines. The cloud is one for the account. I can activate it only on one computer even it contains two VEPro licenses. Those licenses cannot be activated per machine, only in a cloud. It would be normal if server can be activated per machine, not in cloud. It's a server, not library. Steinberg allows to activate new dongle-free softs on multiple machines using the same account.

I'm a bit disappointed.

Posted on Mon, Apr 04 2022 20:58
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 983

Originally Posted by: ANeeman Go to Quoted Post

I already did that. Everything installed on both machines. The cloud is one for the account. I can activate it only on one computer even it contains two VEPro licenses. Those licenses cannot be activated per machine, only in a cloud. It would be normal if server can be activated per machine, not in cloud. It's a server, not library. Steinberg allows to activate new dongle-free softs on multiple machines using the same account.

I'm a bit disappointed.

Oh that's interesting we can only use our iLok cloud from one machine at a time?  That is kind of hard to believe, but I believe you if you say so.  In my case I use a dongle on my DAW...and just an using the cloud for my secondary server which rarely gets used anyway, so that is fine for me, but if the cloud can only use one machine at a time from any one account, that is quite limiting and I agree...makes the cloud somewhat limited for multi-slave setup.

In the end I prefer dongles honestly, they just work reliably without fuss.  I will eventually get another dongle for my secondary server.

Posted on Tue, Apr 05 2022 05:28
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 13530

Hi, 

You can open ONE Cloud session per iLok account. 

Here is the link to a new video that gives you an overview of the options with Vienna Ensemble Pro 7. 

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Apr 05 2022 09:37
by ANeeman
Joined on Wed, Sep 25 2019, Latvia, Posts 30

Thank you, Paul, for the reply!

The video explains a lot. But if those are all options then this move to iLok don't get us rid of dongles, because in my situation I should buy dongle to run two VEPro servers. Also there can be another situation: use libraries in master computer, but server on slave computer to load more bigger libraries, such as BBC SO by SpitfireAudio. With iLok cloud I cannot manage this. I can run all licenses in one computer.

And if I don't have internet instantly in studio, then I cannot run anything without dongles. Right? iLok Cloud don't run without internet even cloud was activated on computer where I want to run server. And I cannot move licenses between iLok Cloud and iLok dongle without internet.

So again - dongles, zero downtimes...

How Native Instruments are managing their product licenses? No dongles, no clouds, install on two computers, no internet needed when all is set up.

So my question - can I create second account to use on server and transfer server license to it? (wasn't answered). Additionally - can I register second iLok account in VSL profile (and should I do that?)?

Some pro say - computer for music isn't for internet... (in case if we are pro).

Posted on Tue, Apr 05 2022 12:28
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 1209

Originally Posted by: ANeeman Go to Quoted Post

How Native Instruments are managing their product licenses? No dongles, no clouds, install on two computers, no internet needed when all is set up.

And NI products can be easily pirated

Dorico, Finale, Sibelius, Notion, Overture, Cubase, StaffPad
Win11 x64, 64GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Tue, Apr 05 2022 16:40
by ANeeman
Joined on Wed, Sep 25 2019, Latvia, Posts 30

Originally Posted by: Bill Go to Quoted Post

And NI products can be easily pirated

Okay, but Spitfire Audio? No dongles, no internet, no no no... I never heard about pirated Spitfire Audio libraries.

I use everything legal (EVERYTHING!!!), but I see in internet everything is available as "try before buy". So with any protection developers just playing with real and serious users, but not fighting against piracy. I'm programmer and I know how to debug a compiled program and do reverse engineering just to get a protocol or operation flow inside program. If someone create a protection, there will be another bunch of wise people who can do reverse. Sadly, but this is reality.

This "dongle-free" movement is just a marketing trick.

BTW my next question will be: can I install previous versions and use eLicenser? I suppose no, because Steinberg will kill eLicenser server after everything will be dongle-free.

So no one answered to my question - can I create second account and transfer server license using iLok Manager? With current iLok Cloud policy they (VSL) thought that everything from VSL is running on one machine - server, but main computer just load non-licensable plugin. I think better would be if server would run without a license, but it controls who is connecting - is there on that machine a server user license. Otherwise why server is controlling the count of connected users?

No one can tell me how I can use dongle-free software without internet. If I disconnect network cable, in next 5 seconds I have message about everything goes off and my dongle-free dream falls into ocean of disappointments.

Lot of misunderstandings from me, lot of questions, lot of disappointments and I understand that there is no way to reach my happiness. If I could know that I never bought anything from VSL. But the sound is gorgeous! Better than overcompressed English libraries.

Posted on Tue, Apr 05 2022 18:06
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 1209

If someone has a pirated copy of Kontakt, they can use any Kontakt library.

Dorico, Finale, Sibelius, Notion, Overture, Cubase, StaffPad
Win11 x64, 64GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Tue, Apr 05 2022 18:25
by ANeeman
Joined on Wed, Sep 25 2019, Latvia, Posts 30

I would like to state that this thread is about the dongle-free problem that occurs in my studio, not about the Kontakt and piracy.

I hope Paul will read all unread replies here.

In addition - both my "Vienna Ensemble Pro 7" licenses are not transferrable to another account. So this is the answer to my very first question. (Thanks!)

So at this point I really don't understand how I can use both of my VEPro7 licenses. Very logical would be if I could use the same cloud from both my computers and this way iLok Manager could control which computer uses what.

It seems that it would be very logical to allow activate licenses on all available media including computer itself (now it is only dongle and cloud).

Posted on Tue, Apr 05 2022 21:43
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 13530

Hi, 

Just posted this video about your options with VE Pro 7 and iLok

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Tue, Apr 05 2022 22:31
by ANeeman
Joined on Wed, Sep 25 2019, Latvia, Posts 30

Thank you, Paul.

I understood from your first reply that I need iLok key. I don't have any and in case we are going to reach dongle-free setup I really don't want to buy one. Otherwise I don't see it serious to switch from one dongle to another.

I have two eLicenser dongles and all was working well.

Why VSL licenses are not available to activate on machine? Otherwise the term "cloud" cannot be applied to this pseudo cloud, because it's just a pocket. With a "cloud" in computer technology we understand a controlled access by multiple users from anywhere. In case of software licensing there could be only a check of which computer can access which library or software. As it logically should be.

I would like to buy another BBO library for 65 euros, not paying 55 euros for iLok dongle to use it in "dongle-free" setup.

I reinstalled previous version of VEPro7 on my slave computer and now everything is working as before. All dongles are connected and I'm ready to compose on pseudo-dongle-free setup.

P.S. One little bug in new VEPro7 (version 7.1) - if I load a server project saved with version 7.0 and there were used Vienna Matrix Mixer Pro, it isn't recognized.

Posted on Wed, Apr 06 2022 06:36
by Paul
Joined on Sat, Aug 03 2002, Vienna, Posts 13530

Hi, 

Just quickly addressing all the points you made:

  • Machine-based licensing is not safe enough for our niche product. It would be cracked within minutes. 
  • iLok currently allows ONE Cloud Session per account.
  • Terminology is always up for discussion, but we don't have an influence on this. 
  • If you purchase a new product, you will have to switch all other products for that players to iLok. No way around it. 
  • Please send such a project to , we will take a look!

Best, 
Paul

Paul Kopf
Product Manager - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Wed, Apr 06 2022 11:03
by ANeeman
Joined on Wed, Sep 25 2019, Latvia, Posts 30

Okay, Paul, all is clear, but there are inconvenience you really don't want to understand or ignore.

In a version of one eLicenser dongle many users were able to run any library and soft without internet. Right? Now it's gone. If they use iLok Cloud they need an internet connection to start VEPro7.

The phrase "now all computers are connected" won't work in many cases. So many of us are pressed to buy iLok dongle. As I wrote - then why this move? eLicenser was working great for years. But if one company is going to get rid of dongles, then another company entangles nets deeper with dongle system. If your company has good programmers who made such great players and libraries, why they don't made autonomous licensing system like Steinberg did, like SpitfireAudio have for years???

I understand that you are tired of me, but please take it serious...

About your point "Machine-based licensing is not safe enough for our niche product. It would be cracked within minutes.", please open Google and type "crack iLok". Probably you will be surprised. So if someone need to get any software for free, he can get it in many ways. Less than a minute!

Here is the excerpt from post in KVRaudio forum:

"If you are using iLok now, you are losing business. I, and many like me, will never ever buy your product. iLok inconveniences your *legit* customers. It does nothing to prevent piracy, any decent cracker can crack iLok protected code and any idiot can find cracks online. If we purchase your software, it's because we believe in supporting companies and doing the right thing. It's not because we have to because of your obsolete technology choices. All iLok does is make my life more difficult should I choose your product, and with all the fantastic new plugin companies that don't use it, I don't need to put up with that."

So please work with customers, not with pirates! They were, are and will be always. As I said if there is one wise man who invented uncrackable system, there will be ten or hundreds the same wise people who can crack it. The excerpt tells everything - "iLok inconveniences your *legit* customers".

I understand that the truth is in both sides, but you and your team should know how inconvenient can be this move for some (probably for many) of your customers.

As long as it will be possible I will use old VEPro7 v7.0 version on my server, while using iLok cloud on main computer. This works for me because server holds BBCSO, huge Kontakt libs etc, not VSL.

So thank you for your patience, Paul. My respect to you, but take a look on Google search results. Sometimes you have to be able to stop and see your mistakes. (not your's, but company's).

Posted on Wed, Apr 06 2022 11:35
by jimchik
Joined on Mon, Feb 25 2013, Hamburg, Germany, Posts 18

Originally Posted by: ANeeman Go to Quoted Post

Oh that's interesting we can only use our iLok cloud from one machine at a time?

So, I'm looking at buying a second computer, soley to run VEPro Server and the PI's, while keeping the first for the DAW and the associated functions (editing, mixing..). I was thinking that I'd be able to do this with the same iLok Cloud account; for instance the all the PI's relegated to the networked machine, and the mixing tools (Waves, etc..) relegated to the main machine. I thought that as long as I don't try to open a second instance on the other machine, I should be ok. But are you saying that this is not the case?

According to the video, it seems I can keep my dongle on 1 computer, and use the cloud with the other computer. At least I don't need to buy a second dongle. But please let me know if I am correctly understanding this.

 

Thanks in advance

Posted on Wed, Apr 06 2022 11:50
by ANeeman
Joined on Wed, Sep 25 2019, Latvia, Posts 30

Yes, you can use iLok cloud on one machine and iLok dongle on second machine. It's correct. All my post is about inconvenience.

But we still not talking about big problems - no one will convert your server projects to work with new version.

Posted on Wed, Apr 06 2022 13:01
by jimchik
Joined on Mon, Feb 25 2013, Hamburg, Germany, Posts 18

Originally Posted by: ANeeman Go to Quoted Post

Yes, you can use iLok cloud on one machine and iLok dongle on second machine. It's correct. All my post is about inconvenience.

But we still not talking about big problems - no one will convert your server projects to work with new version.

That was my next question... so you're saying that Vienna hasn't yet released an updated Server App for iLok that will work seamlessly just as the pre-iLok version worked? I went through that incredible hassle at first, only to reinstall the older version and everything again worked as it had.

Posted on Wed, Apr 06 2022 13:12
by ANeeman
Joined on Wed, Sep 25 2019, Latvia, Posts 30

Yes, now - after hours of digging and fighting I installed old pre-iLok VEPro versions (7.0.1120) on both machines, but I leave libraries as iLok versions. And I tested - all is working great - updated libraries are loading correctly in updated Synchron Player (1.2.1120) while servers are old (7.0.1120).

Probably VSL will correct all bugs soon, but I'm not ready to be beta tester. I spent two days to do nothing but just testing what works and what doesn't.

And again... "iLok inconveniences *legit* customers", but who cares?! The goal is to prevent hundred pirates to do things while thousands feel inconvenience.

Posted on Wed, Apr 06 2022 14:45
by jimchik
Joined on Mon, Feb 25 2013, Hamburg, Germany, Posts 18

Originally Posted by: ANeeman Go to Quoted Post

And again... "iLok inconveniences *legit* customers", but who cares?! The goal is to prevent hundred pirates to do things while thousands feel inconvenience.

That's always the case. We've always had to and will probably always have to deal with. Good ole' human nature.

Posted on Wed, Apr 06 2022 17:46
by prahja
Joined on Thu, Feb 28 2019, Posts 4

Hi Paul, 

I highly recommend you to add iLOK to be linked into a registered computer. 

This would solve the Cloud session issues as well as the need of buying these iLOK keys in numbers.

Holder of 3 VE Pro 7 licenses and 3 eLicenser KEYs

Br, 

Petri 

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