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You see?! It's not just me!
Last post Thu, Jun 02 2022 by William, 11 replies.
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Posted on Sun, May 29 2022 12:10
by Errikos
Joined on Tue, Jun 12 2007, Posts 1115

It's not just the envious, spiteful, presumably unable-to-keep-up-with-the-Jones' unknown composer that scoffs at the musical vulgati.

Here is one of the beloved YouTube gurus on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9763KDgqslw

She doesn't exactly use my phraseology or sentiment but, if you listen properly, the message is essentially the same. And that's what counts...

If you can't notate/MIDI it yourself, it's NOT your music!

In these modern days to be vulgar, illiterate, common and vicious, seems to give a man a marvelous infinity of rights that his honest fathers never dreamed of. - Oscar Wilde
Posted on Mon, May 30 2022 02:07
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5726

I see that what you're talking about is "skill" as this person puts it. 

So what is "skill"?  Knowledge of how orchestration works?  OK, yes that is a kind of knowledge.  I guess I find this weird because of the example and library used...

Posted on Mon, May 30 2022 02:35
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5726

I edited this to say that the point being made is severely undercut by the example given.  The general idea is probably true.  Especially applied to using pre-made "orchestrations."   

Posted on Mon, May 30 2022 17:09
by agitato
Joined on Mon, Jun 22 2015, Posts 441

I used to respect this YouTuber, until when she posted this ridiculous opinion video about how music  conservatories are elitist and that music education is not essential:

https://youtu.be/YGtrq9Qnx6I

It was only then that I realized that this person is a totally self important and ignorant moron. That ill-informed rant video completely turned me off and I cannot bear to watch her videos anymore.

Anand Kumar
Posted on Mon, May 30 2022 20:33
by Errikos
Joined on Tue, Jun 12 2007, Posts 1115

William: Yes, I know that you, me and a few others here would know immediately the library used in the example would be older but, as she said, a lot of people could not tell the difference - skill n.1, knowing what an orchestra should sound like. And "skill beats tech every time", as she said. I do hope that were true of course but it's not, as we know. If it were, Hollywood scores would sound very different...

agitato: I did notice the video you refer to, and did not waste my time watching it. If she said the things you wrote here, she is hypocritical for she is very well conservatory trained. As such, she is not the best person to aver that one can "make it" without knowing music proper. I look at her videos for technical tips on equipment and workflow as she is working in the industry (not just a hopeful). However, there are videos where she does very clearly remark how ludicrous it is to believe that one can become a composer through an Internet course or by just mocking about with libraries. 

If you can't notate/MIDI it yourself, it's NOT your music!

In these modern days to be vulgar, illiterate, common and vicious, seems to give a man a marvelous infinity of rights that his honest fathers never dreamed of. - Oscar Wilde
Posted on Tue, May 31 2022 01:55
by agitato
Joined on Mon, Jun 22 2015, Posts 441

Originally Posted by: Errikos Go to Quoted Post

agitato: I did notice the video you refer to, and did not waste my time watching it. If she said the things you wrote here, she is hypocritical for she is very well conservatory trained. As such, she is not the best person to aver that one can "make it" without knowing music proper. I look at her videos for technical tips on equipment and workflow as she is working in the industry (not just a hopeful). However, there are videos where she does very clearly remark how ludicrous it is to believe that one can become a composer through an Internet course or by just mocking about with libraries. 

I get the impression that she was put down or insulted by a prof in her music school and is just venting off...to say "look here I am ... a Hollywood composer who makes a lot of money and made it! you loser professors! So no one needs your education!!"

Funny how one stupid video can reveal a person in full. Thankfully I do not find anything special about her music....pretty average stuff... and I have much better music to listen to and learn from.

What is sad is that this video obviously will mislead a lot of youngsters who are ready to scorn any kind of learning that is not about the latest patches or synths (something you have frequently decried here). Everything is supposed to be innate and obvious because it is "Art" ...as opposed to what?...engineering or science where you need to actually learn something? That is the greatest misconception that really puts me off.

Ironically I am a scientist and not really a conservatory trained musician....except for some part-time courses and playing instruments all my life...but I can appreciate that composing music or any other art needs proper training in the craft to reach a basic level of sophistication. No wonder Hollywood music sucks today.

I have been scorned by music professors too, but I never mind that since they know more than me. I would never put down music education just because I felt insulted by some 'elite'.

But I know you know all this much more than me....and see your point about the other video in the OP.

Anand

Anand Kumar
Posted on Tue, May 31 2022 17:16
by Errikos
Joined on Tue, Jun 12 2007, Posts 1115

agitato: I finally saw a few portions of the 'elitism' video; the girl is clearly out of her gourd in that one...

If you can't notate/MIDI it yourself, it's NOT your music!

In these modern days to be vulgar, illiterate, common and vicious, seems to give a man a marvelous infinity of rights that his honest fathers never dreamed of. - Oscar Wilde
Posted on Tue, May 31 2022 18:47
by Macker
Joined on Tue, Aug 21 2018, London, Posts 612

Two points:

 •   Yes of course some of the older technical tools and materials in this game are still highly effective today - VSL's VI and MIR collection being a prime example. In my case, back around 2001 I bought a couple of Best Service Pro Sample CDs (Vol 11) that were a 'special edition' of Siedlaczek's Adanced Orchestra sample library. A bit later I upgraded to the full Orchestral Collection; it's all still pretty useful today though no match, for example, for the superb flexibility I now have with VSL's Dimension Strings and Dimension Brass.

 •  Some while ago I assessed this young lady Youtuber to be a card-carrying member of the "Simon Says" club as far as her craft and 'art' in digital scoring go. And I found her music to be strewn with trite, fatuous and banal rule-based clichés, just like her approach with her technology. However, she is somewhat perfidious, suprising and contradictory in one respect: she somehow got herself into the biz, despite appearing to be just another average also-ran in the field of wannabes. I'd love to know how that really happened (I'm not convinced by her anodyne account of that). And now it seems she's taking the role of "Simon" in her club - quite a turnaround!

"Music embodies feeling without forcing it to contend and combine with thought, as it is forced in most arts and especially in the art of words."
~ Franz Liszt
Posted on Tue, May 31 2022 20:50
by agitato
Joined on Mon, Jun 22 2015, Posts 441

Originally Posted by: Errikos Go to Quoted Post

agitato: I finally saw a few portions of the 'elitism' video; the girl is clearly out of her gourd in that one...

Glad you agree. Maybe she had too much beer before recording that clip, and the truth is revealed!

Anand Kumar
Posted on Wed, Jun 01 2022 21:28
by Errikos
Joined on Tue, Jun 12 2007, Posts 1115

Macker: I still have the full Siedlaczek loaded up in one of my hard drives. I don't recall ever having used it commercially, but I had a soft spot for some of its offerings. You could say I never got my money back on it, but I don't regret the purchase. 

On the other hand, if we take the original flagship complete VSL with Performance Set thrown in of 2003/4(?) -which I own, a lot of the orchestral simulations that made the demo and forum areas back then still sound astounding! That is, they sound infinitely better than many an offering today, even with all the extra microphones, all the extra articulations and key switches, all the extra features in the DAWs, all the modern reverbs etc. That is where the point "skill beats tech every time" shines.

As far as the young lady is concerned, I believe I hinted that her music does not interest me at all (run of the mill if we're feeling generous). However, contrary to a lot of other YouTubers she is regularly working in the B and C grade Hollywood industry, so there are things other than composition she talks about that are of interest to me. Plus, she IS conservatory trained, so I know that whatever she says, she does so with a similar background to my own - i.e. not that of someone that doesn't know what scales are... (see other thread).

If you can't notate/MIDI it yourself, it's NOT your music!

In these modern days to be vulgar, illiterate, common and vicious, seems to give a man a marvelous infinity of rights that his honest fathers never dreamed of. - Oscar Wilde
Posted on Thu, Jun 02 2022 01:52
by William
Joined on Sun, Nov 24 2002, USA, Posts 5726

Sorry to Errikos - I do understand the principle that  actual musical content is more significant than AI-assisted stuff. However the post example was bad as there was really no content. 

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