MIR PRO 3D (24) reverb latency when rendering (FL Studio 20)

[NathanHSO]

Hi everyone,

I thought I'd make my first Forum post before trying VSL's emails however I have recently purchased the new MIR PRO 3D and I really enjoy it, love the rooms and the amount of flexibility and customization, all the way down to the microphones used in the rooms themselves, very impressed. However since using it I have found several latency issues, most of which I have solved myself in my chosen DAW, however one issue I haven't found a fix for is when rendering a cue the first 1-10 seconds is completely dry before the reverb actually kicks in, coming from MIRx the reverb worked out the box in the VI Player, my original workaround was to displace the cue by a bar which made looping cues awkward but doable, however with a different cue I've had to displace the cue by 8 bars, the cue being 70BPM = atleast 20 seconds of silence before the cue starts in order for the reverb to actually work from the get-go in the render (rendering to .WAV)

My latency settings in my DAW and MIR PRO 3D are all synced up so it's not a conflicting latency issue, I'm not quite sure how to fix it but it maybe an FL Studio issue, I am unable to use VI Pro Player for this reason as the Humanisation settings of VI Pro Player obliterate the timing of each note played so I stick to VI Player.

If anyone knows of a workaround or fix that would be fantastic!

[Dietz]

Welcome Nathan,

great to hear that you like MIR 3D. :-)

I have to admit that I've never worked with FL Studio up to now, but judging from your description this sounds a lot like a problem that's connected to MIR's ability to shut down any unused convolution processes (... which reduces the real-time CPU load significantly).

Maybe you give it a try with this Preference unchecked: 

[NathanHSO]

Hi there Dietz, 

Thanks for getting back to me so soon, I actually had this setting unchecked as it was the first thing I did when I first got the program, however I'm not having an issue with real-time playback, but only when I render the cue to a file format, playing the cue in real-time in my DAW works every time. I've included two examples showing my issue, Example 1 is from the start of the track and shows how long it takes for the Reverb to actually start which took around 8 seconds at 70BPM, Example 2 has been displaced by 6 bars before the start and has zero issues, this delay seems to be a project by project case.

[Dietz]

@Another User said:

however I'm not having an issue with real-time playback, but only when I render the cue to a file format

Thanks for the clarification, but that is exactly what I understood. 😊 I think that you should activate this very handy option for all real-time work. but you could try to de-activate it for off-line rendering.

Is there an option in FL Studio to do real-time offline rendering, too? I know that this isn't what you're after, but it might be worth trying to rule out all possibly influential factors.

[Dietz]

Another thought: Does this happen directly after opening a project? MIR 3D needs some time to load and pre-render its positional IRs. This is indicated by the small "spinning wheel" in the lower right corner of the MIR's main GUI, supported by the indication of the already pre-rendered data in percent.

[NathanHSO]

Ah I see, sadly I believe FL Studio only renders offline and this issue only happens every time I render, I've not had any issues with MIR needing time to load the IR samples, I have seen the spinning wheel but it only ever appears for a second. I've also just updated my FL Studio to make sure it wasn't a version issue but the issue is still persistent. FL has an audio recorder built-in plugin called "Edison" which I can use to record the channels in what seems to be real-time. I've not used it before so I don't know how useful it will be but I will see if this is a solid workaround.

[Dietz]

If you can't find a workable solution please get in contact with VSL's support team with a reference to this thread. -> support@vsl.co.at . They'll do their best to solve the issue. Make sure to include as many details as possible (computer, OS, audio system and driver versions, software versions ...), as well as all steps necessary to reproduce the issue.

Kind regards,

[NathanHSO]

Honestly I believe the issue is with the DAW itself, I've had issues with VI Pro Player in the past with it's humanization and now MIR PRO 3D, the Edison idea didn't work, and out of curiosity I reinstalled VI Pro Player and still have the same issue. I put both VI Pro Player and MIR PRO 3D into Protools however and they work perfectly and it's real-time rendering is a bonus too. I think my workaround for now will be to write the cues in FL Studio like I have been, using MIR PRO 3D to hear how the final product may sound, then to render the tracks completely dry to put into Protools to apply MIR PRO 3D and to real-time render the track with the reverb applied. 

I might look for a different DAW or email the company that makes FL to see if they are implementing a real-time feature in the future, used FL for around 7-8 years now so I want to see what options I have first before moving DAWs. 

Thanks again for your help Dietz. 

[elvismetsnor]

I am experiencing similar issues with the old version of vienna Mir, also in Fl Studio 20 Normal playback is fine however rendering/exporting with mir does not work. I was considering upgrading to Mir 3D, however I really want to use FL studio, my entire workflow depends upon it. Have you found a solution to this issue yet? What can I do?

[NathanHSO]

Hi there, I sadly never found a fix, it seems to be a fundamental issue with FL Studio itself, Most DAWS use fixed buffers but FL Studio uses a variable buffer. MIR Pro 3D works perfectly when creating a piece (there will be latency however, only around 22-44ms) but rendering has no fix. My best advice would be to buy the Protools subscription for around $10 a month and render the stems dry in FL Studio and then import the stems into Protools and apply MIR Pro 3D (or which MIR you have) to the stems and render in real-time, this allows the render to have MIR applied, you sadly just need another piece of software for it though I would recommend MIR PRO 3D.

Unrelated but If you ever have an issue with Vienna Instruments Pro with FL Studio I have found a fix recently, if you click on the gear in the settings tab, and click the second smaller gear, enable "Use fixed size buffers - Use maximum buffer size from host" this will fix the issue of VIPro's humanization feature obliterating the timing of rendered instruments. 

[elvismetsnor]

Thanks for the quick reply!
Also thanks for the tip regarding Vienna Instruments.

Real shame you did not find a solution to this. I hope Image-Line can be convinced to look into this together with VSL.

Besides FL I use Cubase a lot, however for anything relating to the music creation process I find FL Studio is so much more intuitive and logical.

I think the only practical solution would be to sync FL with Cubase using their own Vst and adding MIR to the tracks in Cubase.
A hastle for sure, but I will give this a try soon.
https://www.image-line.com/fl-studio-learning/fl-studio-online-manual/html/flstudio_vst_plugin.htm

I was indeed tempted to buy Mir 3D, however if it is just as broken in this regard as regular Mir I see no reason to upgrade.

[Dietz]

@elvismetsnor said:

[...] if it is just as broken in this regard as regular Mir I see no reason to upgrade.

I thought it was pretty clear that it's a problem of the host, not the plug-in? 

[DerrichJohn]

@NathanHSO said:

Honestly I believe the issue is with the DAW itself, I've had issues with VI Pro Player in the past with it's humanization and now MIR PRO 3D, the Edison idea didn't work, and out of curiosity I reinstalled VI Pro Player and still have the same issue. I put both VI Pro Player and MIR PRO 3D into Protools however and they work perfectly and it's real-time rendering is a bonus too. I think my workaround for now will be to write the cues in FL Studio like I have been, using MIR PRO 3D to hear how the final product may sound, then to render the tracks completely dry to put into Protools to apply MIR PRO 3D and to real-time render the track with the reverb applied. 

I might look for a different DAW or email the company that makes FL to see if they are implementing a real-time feature in the future, used FL for around 7-8 years now so I want to see what options I have first before moving DAWs. 

Thanks again for your help Dietz. 

 

Found a workaround. I simply put Edison at the end of the master chain, hit the record button inside Edison, and play the track. Once the track is done playing I stop the Edison recording and select save sample as... And it will export whatever settings you have set in FLs Audio Settings. If you have the resources I put my host to 96khz and set the mixer resampling quality to 512-point sync. Let me know if this works for you guys. Cheers!

EDIT: I'm not sure how much of a part this plays, but all my samples sit on an external SSD, and Edison writes the recordings locally. So I'm not sure If you will run into issues streaming samples and writing down a high res recording on the same drive.