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Kontakt 7 VST3 only?
Last post Sun, Nov 13 2022 by Dewdman42, 33 replies.
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Posted on Wed, Sep 28 2022 16:00
by dlpmusic
Joined on Sun, Jan 19 2003, Posts 289

I hope I am wrong....don't think I am.  I just downloaded Komplete 14 content and now realize after batch resaving using K7 I can't use any of it in VE PRO as I can't access K7.

 

VE PRO must support hosting VST3.  It is absolutely ridiculous that they do not at this point. 

Posted on Wed, Sep 28 2022 17:26
by Home Studio 87
Joined on Thu, Apr 09 2009, Posts 35

That's a big problem for VEP.... whatever you do "pop orchestral film..." kontakt is always here.....

Gigabyte GA-X99P-SLI / Intel Corei7 6800k / 32 Go DDR4 / 3x SSD / Win 10 Pro x64 / UAD Apollo Twin USB / UAD2 Satellite Octo USB / UAD2 Octo PCIe / Cubase Pro 12 / VEP7 / Console 1 / CMC Controllers / iPad Lemur & Metagrid... /
Posted on Wed, Sep 28 2022 23:56
by Bill
Joined on Fri, Sep 23 2005, Berkshires, MA, Posts 1209

Yes, confirmed. VST3, AU, AXX only

Dorico, Finale, Sibelius, Notion, Overture, Cubase, StaffPad
Win11 x64, 64GB RAM; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
Kontakt, Bunch of VSL, VIP, VEP, EWQL Orch, Choir and Pianos
August Forster 190
Posted on Thu, Sep 29 2022 04:10
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2747

do not use VEP in the meanwhile

use the Kontakt inside your DAW

Originally Posted by: Bill Go to Quoted Post

Yes, confirmed. VST3, AU, AXX only

MacBook Pro 2019 16" + 2 x Odisseey G9 49"

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd

Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series, Many Synchronised libs
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Thu, Sep 29 2022 06:36
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 983

on mac vepro you can use the AU version.  

Sorry to say PC users will not be able to host Kontakt7 just yet.  K6 is still working for me I don't plan to upgrade it any time soon.  

Posted on Thu, Sep 29 2022 08:16
by Eulenauge66
Joined on Mon, Feb 20 2017, Posts 4

It's really high time that VEP runs VST3. Same goes for M1/M2 support. I understand that there are companies like FabFilter, who adapt to new trends and technologies super fast, and others don't. But this is lagging so far behind now.

Posted on Thu, Sep 29 2022 10:04
by Lucy
Joined on Sun, Nov 26 2017, Kendal, UK, Posts 66

Until now, VEP not hosting VST3's has been a cause of some frustration for me, and a worry for the future. It's now become a major problem. 

The time has come VSL; you simply must give this the utmost priority.

Please?

Posted on Thu, Sep 29 2022 13:50
by dlpmusic
Joined on Sun, Jan 19 2003, Posts 289

Originally Posted by: Lucy Go to Quoted Post

Until now, VEP not hosting VST3's has been a cause of some frustration for me, and a worry for the future. It's now become a major problem. 

The time has come VSL; you simply must give this the utmost priority.

Please?

 

I feel the same.....no excuse for being so far behind the curve with VST3.

Posted on Fri, Sep 30 2022 11:54
by jesus_calderon_679
Joined on Wed, Jan 22 2003, Posts 11

PLEASE, Vienna, update VEP7 ho host VST3.

It's a shame that now we can't use Kontakt 7 as VST (the most used tool for media composers in the world) in your software. We need an EAT as soon as possible. Big disappointment and frustration.

Posted on Fri, Sep 30 2022 14:14
by Cyril Blanc
Joined on Thu, Dec 19 2002, Paris France, Posts 2747

On Mac you get less CPU load if you use AU/VI instrument

Originally Posted by: jesus_calderon_679 Go to Quoted Post

PLEASE, Vienna, update VEP7 ho host VST3.

It's a shame that now we can't use Kontakt 7 as VST (the most used tool for media composers in the world) in your software. We need an EAT as soon as possible. Big disappointment and frustration.

MacBook Pro 2019 16" + 2 x Odisseey G9 49"

MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 64 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd

Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 and S25 Komplete Kontrol, DX7
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many....
--
Logic X , Dorico, Band In A Box, ORB Composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Big Band Orchestra series, Many Synchronised libs
Kontakt, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V5, Maximo, Realivox Blue. CS 80 V3, The Orchestra 2, Art Conductor, Genesis Children Choir, Lunaris, Lacrimosa

Final Cut pro
Camera full HD
Posted on Fri, Sep 30 2022 20:26
by fritzflotow
Joined on Mon, Apr 23 2007, Posts 330

Originally Posted by: jesus_calderon_679 Go to Quoted Post

PLEASE, Vienna, update VEP7 ho host VST3.

It's a shame that now we can't use Kontakt 7 as VST (the most used tool for media composers in the world) in your software. We need an EAT as soon as possible. Big disappointment and frustration.

Yup! I agree! This should be a priority! VST2 is not standard anymore since Steinberg announced not maintaining it any longer. This should have been the last call for any developer to start implementing VST3. I really hope this will not be used to justify a paid update.

Posted on Mon, Oct 03 2022 08:51
by T.K.
Joined on Sat, Oct 16 2010, Posts 13

iZotope has stopped making VST2 versions, Neutron and others are VST3 only...
And Kontakt will also be VST3...

The good plug-ins for me have recently become VST3 only, and VEP without VST3 support has become a software that I cannot use even if I want to use it.

I hope VST3 will be supported as soon as possible.

T.K.
Win10Pro(64bit) Xeon-X5670 @2.93Ghz(2Processo) 48GBRAM
CakeWalk(by BandLab)
MIRPro3D/SUITEPro/VEP7/VIP
Posted on Sun, Oct 16 2022 18:41
by Seventh Sam
Joined on Sat, Dec 29 2018, Posts 345

+1000

With Kontakt 7 now VST3 only, it's very important that VEP7 is updated to allow VST3 support.  Please listen, VSL team!  This needs to be top priority if you don't want to lose customers due to frustration and incompatibility issues.

Posted on Mon, Oct 17 2022 17:30
by Lindurion
Joined on Thu, Feb 19 2004, Pittsburgh, PA, Posts 13

If more piled on +1s help VSL to prioritize this, here's another :)

With Steinberg pushing hard to kill off VST2 and major platforms like Kontakt 7 following suit, VE Pro needs to add the ability to host VST3 plugins soon. It can't be the universal host that we continue building large orchestral templates with if it can only host older plugins.

Even for instrument plugins that still offer VST2 + VST3, I hesitate to continue building large VEP templates with the VST2 versions, because there will be so much manual effort required to rebuild those templates with the VST3 versions in the future.

(Also new developers haven't been able to obtain licenses from Steinberg to release VST2 plugins for quite a few years now, so VEP has been locked into the grandfathered developers club -- an unfair and unfortunate situation).

Can anyone from VSL at least confirm that this will be on the roadmap? (I very much understand not wanting to promise any specific timeline).

Thanks!

- Eric

Posted on Mon, Oct 17 2022 18:41
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 983

VSL has already stated numerous times on this forum that its on the roadmap, but there is no timeline they can give at this time for when exactly we will see it.  They have already told us a dozen times, they are working on it.

One thing you need to understand is that VST3 is a huge change from VST2 in terms of how its coded in any VST3 hosting app..  Its not a small change.  Its a very very large change, especially for a sophisticated host software such as VePro.  If it were an easy thing to add, I'm sure VSL would have released it already a long time ago.

In the meantime, I suggest you consider using a sub-hosting plugin for K7 as a work around.  DDMF MetaPlugin, DDMF SuperPlugin, Kushview Element, PlogueBidule, perhaps even KompleteKontrol, are all possible plugins which come in VST2 form and can host VST3 plugins inside of themselves..which will essentially allow you to use K7 inside VePro7 right now.

Myself, I am still basically avoiding VST3 plugins.  I'm still using K6 and have no "pressing" need to run out and get K7 any time soon.  The VST3 spec also has some interesting design problems that can sometimes affect midi in problematic ways that does not exist with VST2, so me personally I always choose VST2 whenever possible and I will continue to do that as long as I can until it truly becomes a situation such that for example, there may be some sample library that only works on K7 which is only VST3...  But we're just not there yet, there are really only a few isolated situations where VST3 is a hard requirement.  

Just a suggestion.

Posted on Tue, Oct 18 2022 12:49
by Lindurion
Joined on Thu, Feb 19 2004, Pittsburgh, PA, Posts 13

Originally Posted by: Dewdman42 Go to Quoted Post

VSL has already stated numerous times on this forum that its on the roadmap, but there is no timeline they can give at this time for when exactly we will see it.  They have already told us a dozen times, they are working on it.

OK, great.

Originally Posted by: Dewdman42 Go to Quoted Post

One thing you need to understand is that VST3 is a huge change from VST2 in terms of how its coded in any VST3 hosting app..  Its not a small change.  Its a very very large change, especially for a sophisticated host software such as VePro.  If it were an easy thing to add, I'm sure VSL would have released it already a long time ago.

Of course. It's not a trivial change, but it's also a much smaller scope feature than say switching your deeply ingrained software licensing system or adding 3D audio support, so this has to be mainly a question of prioritization. (I've spent a lot of time writing MIDI software and dealing with the annoying differences across audio plugin APIs, so I'm very familiar with this particular problem set -- as I know you are too).

Originally Posted by: Dewdman42 Go to Quoted Post

In the meantime, I suggest you consider using a sub-hosting plugin for K7 as a work around.  DDMF MetaPlugin, DDMF SuperPlugin, Kushview Element, PlogueBidule, perhaps even KompleteKontrol, are all possible plugins which come in VST2 form and can host VST3 plugins inside of themselves..which will essentially allow you to use K7 inside VePro7 right now.

I have a few of these -- I guess I'm just hesitant to add yet another layer of nesting (DAW => VEP => Wrapper Host => Actual Sample Player). Has to add at least a small bit of memory + CPU processing overhead, adds additional clicks to the already arduous process of large orchestral template building, puts critical reliance on another manufacturer+software staying up to date with OS compatibility issues, etc.

Originally Posted by: Dewdman42 Go to Quoted Post

Myself, I am still basically avoiding VST3 plugins.  I'm still using K6 and have no "pressing" need to run out and get K7 any time soon.  The VST3 spec also has some interesting design problems that can sometimes affect midi in problematic ways that does not exist with VST2, so me personally I always choose VST2 whenever possible and I will continue to do that as long as I can until it truly becomes a situation such that for example, there may be some sample library that only works on K7 which is only VST3...  But we're just not there yet, there are really only a few isolated situations where VST3 is a hard requirement.

It's not a hard requirement right now, but there will come a point in the not too distant future where it is, so before investing tens/hundreds more hours building new large templates, I'd rather future proof as much of that work as possible. I do save sample player specific preset files, of course, but even just the work of having to load a new plugin format and call up each one of those presets across dozens of libraries is going to be mind numbing.

So I'd prefer to start using VST3 plugins in VEP as soon as possible, even when that means having to deal with annoyances like choosing keyswitches instead of MIDI CCs for more reliable articulation management because of those VST3 design quirks.

Posted on Tue, Oct 18 2022 18:00
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 983

I totally hear you.  All I can say is they are working on it and it will come when it comes.  But I suspect we still need to be patient.  The other work-arounds for now are what you can do at this time, or choose as I do to avoid VST3 as much as possible. 

To be honest, I am very much NOT looking forward to the day that I am forced to use VST3 instead of VST2.  In my opinion you will be far better off using VST2 instruments whenever possible...for the forseeable future.  Whenever possible, use VST2.  If you just must use K7...then perhaps you are now forced to use VST3, but there is really no rush to be using the VST3 versions.  They do not represent an improvement over VST2 in most cases, particularly for instruments.  That is a very lengthy discussion as to why.  But you are not missing anything, trust me.  You're better off running the VST2 versions for years into the future from here.  Its not like you will spend time setting up your templates and suddenly have to change them all to the VST3 version later....if you ever had to do that it would be years from now and probably not all your tracks, just a few as needed. 

I would not worry about it.  Use VST2 and love it!  VST2 is truly better!

I'm confident VSL is working on it and at some point they will deliver VST3 hosting

Posted on Tue, Oct 18 2022 20:12
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 983

Originally Posted by: Lindurion Go to Quoted Post

So I'd prefer to start using VST3 plugins in VEP as soon as possible, even when that means having to deal with annoyances like choosing keyswitches instead of MIDI CCs for more reliable articulation management because of those VST3 design quirks.

Oh and on this point there is something to point out.  Its good that you are aware of this!  In the case of Kontakt, it doesn't matter if you are VST2 or VST3; as Kontakt itself has some of the same design flaws as VST3 in the midi implementation of its VST2 version also.  In other words, some of the VST3 problems are also present in Kontakt VST2.  Not all..  but some.  So with Kontakt, avoid CC switches period.

Posted on Wed, Oct 19 2022 10:18
by spicemix
Joined on Fri, Mar 18 2022, Posts 39

I get endless beachball on Mac intel AU Kontakt 7 anyway. It runs, but I beachball on first patch I select. Doesn't matter what patch, and everything runs fine in Kontakt 7 in Logic and Standalone. Latest updates of everything.

Posted on Thu, Oct 20 2022 18:20
by Dewdman42
Joined on Tue, Feb 27 2018, Posts 983

Something else I want to point out.  It is NI's decision to drop their VST2 version of Kontakt7.  There are very few plugin developers who have made that decision so far.  Steinberg has of course been heavily pushing this, but there was no forced reason for NI to drop the VST2 version of Kontakt7 other then their own decision to do so.  

Additionally, I will just say that its highly probable it would have been much easier for them to continue supporting a VST2 version of K7 in addition to VST3....then it is for all hosts out there to upgrade to VST3 hosting.  The latter is a much much more complicated, difficult and expensive endeavor to do.  Perhaps Steinberg is behind pushing NI to do this, hoping it will force more hosts to get better at hosting VST3 (shrug)...we don't know....just speculation.  But anyway my point is, make sure to let your feelings known to NI also!  They could have just as easily, if not far more easily...released a VST2 version of K7, compared to expecting all hosts out there to drop what they are doing and implement full VST3 hosting...which is usually quite a complicated matter for some of them.  In fact its still not too late for NI to reconsider and release a VST2 version perhaps. It doesn't hurt to ask them too is all I'm saying.

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