Beginners help needed with MIR Pro 3D

[Oceanview]

Can someone point me in the direction of instructions which make it clear how to set up MIR Pro 3D in Vienna Ensemble? I note there have been other threads where the same problem is raised.

It seems the manual can only be downloaded one page at a time and not as a single pdf. I've looked on youtube for videos by VSL (and anyone else) for a basic step-by-step set-up and all seem to start too far along the process or are not using Vienna Ensemble but working in another DAW.

In this VSL video     

  it states at the outset that integration with V Ensemble will be in 'the next video'. So, where is the next video?

Currently I can right-click on a single instrument in Ensemble and get a red Inline label which then reveals the single instrument MIR Pro dry/wet and vol GUI. Does this have to be done for every single instrument?

How then does the main MIR / venue GUI appear?

(VSL told me that MIR Pro 3D will work with the free version of Vienna Ensemble.)

Clear instructions from any source would be much appreciated.

[Dietz]

Hi Oceanview,

thanks for your interest in MIR 3D.

1. Make sure that you downloaded and installed (!) MIR 3D and at least one RoomPack. (... the former can be considered "the sample player", the latter "the sampled content".) The Vienna Assistent app will serve you well for these tasks. - Restart VE Pro once you've done so.

2. From VE Pro's point-of-view, MIR 3D is a plug-in. You an either insert it manually for existing channels (ideally replacing the standard "blue" panning device), or you have VE Pro doing this for you for each newly created instrument track:

3. As soon as you got that far, I strongly suggest to continue with the "Starting a Project"-section of MIR 3D's Online Manual. -> https://www.vsl.info/en/manuals/mir-pro-3d/starting ... please bear with us that it cannot be printed as a whole ATM, but it nevertheless thoroughly covers all the basics.

... please don't hesitate to ask if you still need guidance.

Enjoy MIR 3D!

[Oceanview]

Hello Dietz,

Thanks for your response. I'll just mention again that I'm using VE not VEPro7. I'm also working with Sibelius. Currently MIR is not appearing in the Available devices list inside Sibelius. Should it?

I can see MIR and MIRacle have installed in the Avid VST folder and also in the VST2 and VSt3 folders. I used VIenna Assistant to download and install. MIR was a download; the Room Pack was installed from the VIenna hard drive. I have the 30-day licences on the iLok activated.

MIR is on the C drive and the Room Pack has installed itself on a G drive (an external SSD). In the Directory Manager a rescan does not show the Room Pack but it does show the instrument content in G drive.

The page you referred to states: 

'In VE Pro, click the New Project icon on the Menu Icon Bar at the top, or select the respective command from the “File” pull-down menu. A dialog window will open and ask you to select the desired channel configuration; please select a format from the list of pre-configured setups ...  The new Vienna Ensemble project will create a Master Bus with the chosen number of output channels, including a full-fledged panner.'

None of this is happening. The new project menu simply opens another instance of VE, there is no new master bus, and no default GUI of the venue.  The Insert Plugins button at the bottom left of VE does not list MIR.

So I am stuck at this point.

[Dietz]

@Another User said:

I can see MIR and MIRacle have installed in the Avid VST folder and also in the VST2 and VSt3 folders.

Same question: Does Vienna Ensemble know about these folders? Make sure that you see them in VE's Preferences.

But before we look any further: Are you able to open MIR 3D "empty" as a stand-alone app, just for testing? Assuming that you're on Windows, its *.EXE should be available when you search for it in Window's Start-menu. Please check and let us know, we'll take it from there.

Kind regards,

[Oceanview]

Hello Dietz,

Again, thanks for the quick reply.

I can launch the empty MIR outside of VE and Sibelius, and I can load a venue from Room Pack 1.

In VE preferences MIR, MIR Pro eq and MIRacle are all showing up; also MIR's own logo. I've done rescans here to make sure.

Open New Project on VE's menu does not offer MIR, just a change in the content of VE.

On the bottom left 'insert a new plugin after this channel' in VE MIR is still not showing - perhaps this is correct.

As mentioned before I can add the red Mir Pro inline to any instrument channel and clicking on this opens the small GUI of dry/wet and volume.

In Sibelius MIR doesn't show up on the active devices list, but it does appear under Master Insert Effects, along with the VIenna Suite plugins. But this would add it to the final master stereo which is the wrong place, is it not? And I have the impression MIR doesn't need to be an active device in Sibelius?

So I think the issue is missing steps for what happens inside VE. For example, if the red inline is activated for every instrument in an VE instance, how then does MIR open fully inside VE? And what if there is more than one instance of VE? 

There is a complicated heirarchy of processing (Sibelius, VIPro, VE, MIR) which is difficult to grasp.

I hope this makes plain the problem.

[Dietz]

Hmmm .... I have little experience with Sibelius as a DAW, but a gut feeling tells me that you should take this host out of the equation. Look at it as a plain MIDI data sequencer, for now.

Vienna Ensemble is a different story, though. You should be able to install MIR 3D from the list of available plug-ins manually, even if everything als goes wrong. The red insert is actually just the connection between the host and MIR's main GUI that you have seen already when you were opening the application. (BTW: "Inline" just refers to the fact that MIR will "send back" both the dry and the wet signal components to this channel. In Vienna Ensemble you can also decide to send the resulting wet signal to another bus, which is a nice-to-have feature under certain circumstances, but they are beyond the scope of the issue we're looking at ATM.)

As soon as you insert the first "red" MIR 3D plug-in, the MIR 3D splash screen should pop up, informing you about the start of the main GUI. As soon as it has opened completely you will see a first MIR Icon appear on the so-called "Default Venue" that invites you to load an actual MIR Venue to start working. If you want to raise this main GUI window, you can either use your operating system's method to switch between individual Windows (e.g. Alt-Tab), or you can click on the "Focus" button in the small MIR 3D plug-in's GUI (see attachment).

... if none of these hints get you started, I have to ask you kindly to get in contact with my colleagues from VSL's support team tomorrow Monday (-> support@vsl.co.at). They will be able to talk you through the process. Please include as many technical details as possible (ideally the system report created by the Vienna Assistant app) and  a reference to this thread.

Kind regards,

[Louis C]

I'm also having the same problem on an M1 MacMini/Ventura.

I can use MIRPro in Logic without issue and also boot it from the Finder as an Application

BUT.

I can't see it from within VEPro (FX drop down menu) and if I click the 'Auto Add Mir' red button I also get nothing when creating new Channels.

I can see the MIR Pro Equaliser and also MIRacle, but not MIR Pro itself.

[Paul]

Hi Louis C, 

That is a bit unusual, works fine here, same system. 

Did you try to uninstall and reinstall the latest versions of VE Pro and MIR Pro from within Vienna Assistant yet? 

Best, 
Paul

[Dietz]

VSL developers suggest to initiate a complete plug-in re-scan in case MIR 3D doesn't show up in the selection pull-down: 

 

[Oceanview]

Hello Dietz,

I have MIR opening now. The only thing I haven't seen so far is the option to choose the audio format. I'm working in stereo so I guess this doesn't matter at present, and if the audio signal is travelling from MIR back to Sibelius before export then stereo is the only possible final outcome (?).

I have had several sessions trying out various features. It is very impressive, so congratulations all round. I have worked with a number of reverbs in the past 15 years or so within the sample orchestra world and MIR sounds very good. The main gain for me is the help with the issue of perceived depth to the sound.

I have a few questions:

Is there a way of raising the overall volume of the stereo signal before it leaves MIR? At present it is on the quiet side even with the volume levels in VE fairly high.

Does the Natural Volume feature in MIR over-ride the volume levels in VE?

I'm using Vienna Suite's Eq presets in VE. Are there equivalent presets in MIR? Does this amount to duplication of effect?

And finally a +1 to the suggestion made by another poster on the forum that the brightness of the MIDI activity in the instruments could be a bit brighter.

With thanks.

[Dietz]

@Another User said:

And finally a +1 to the suggestion made by another poster on the forum that the brightness of the MIDI activity in the instruments could be a bit brighter.

We took note! 😊 Thanks for the suggestion.

[Oceanview]

Hello Dietz,

Thanks for the helpful answers.

[Louis C]

@Paul said:

Did you try to uninstall and reinstall the latest versions of VE Pro and MIR Pro from within Vienna Assistant yet?

Uninstalling using the Uninstall app in the same folder as MIRPro and then re-installing via the updated Vienna Assistant solved it - many thanks Paul.

By the way - Roompack 7 is STUNNING.

[Dietz]

Hi Louis,

great that this worked for you, and thanks for your friendly words!

Enjoy MIR 3D,

[Oceanview]

Hello again Dietz,

It looks like in MIR roles, under Dimension Strings, Cello Player 5's preset is missing. Am I right, or did you know this already?

Also, does MIR Pro's audio output return to VE? This would mean any effect applied to the master channel in VE would be post-MIR (?). 

Thanks.

[Dietz]

Re. Missing Dimension Cello 5: Oh, I see  - but only for Vienna Konzerthaus Großer Saal (Great Hall) and Mozartsaal, AFAICS. That's an oversight that must have happend during the conversion process from MIRx. Sorry for the inconvenience, and thanks for reporting. I'll make sure that this small hickup will be fixed ASAP.

Re. MIR's output: Yes, as long as you don't use individual output routings for a channel and/or MIR's exclusive "wet only" routing option, MIR's complete output will appear on the chosen master bus. Any processing that takes place there will of course also affect MIR, therefore.

HTH.

[Oceanview]

Hello Dietz,

I've just invested in Room pack 3 for MIR Pro3D.

When I click on 'Roles' in the Steinhofkirche GUI neither of the Room pack 3 venues appear. I can see Teldex / Gateshead / Pernegg / Synchron (of the room packs I don't have) plus Room pack 1 (which I do), but nothing for pack 3. Pack 3 is listed on Options - Preferences in the same location as pack 1 on my external hard drive. The instruments are all visible in the church graphic.

Can you explain what has happened to these roles for pack 3?

With thanks.

[Dietz]

Hi,

Not all Venues come with "Role"-presets for Vienna Instruments / Synchron-ized Instruments. In quite a few cases size and nature of a room defy its use for standard orchestra seating - as great as they might sound. 

But apart from that you should be able to load you new Venues from MIR 3D's Venue Selection dialog at t the bottom of the Venue Map. If you don't see all your licensed Venues in this browser then there either went something wrong with the installation (downloading alone is not enough!) or the license transfer.

HTH,

[Oceanview]

Thanks for clarifying this. It was only looking for the non-existing roles that was the problem - I have everything else working and visible (the 9-10 second reverb length is wild!).

[Dietz]

That's good to hear !

@Oceanview said:

(the 9-10 second reverb length is wild!).

Yes, they are. Andone of the reasons why I didn't create "Standard Roles" for this beautiful space, simply because it's soooo non-standard ... 😊

Enjoy MIR 3D!