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some betatester VI solovioin demos
Last post Mon, Feb 27 2006 by ericbrooking, 96 replies.
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Posted on Sun, Dec 18 2005 23:59
by herb
Joined on Mon, Aug 05 2002, Posts 4622
I'm very happy to present some nice demos, produced with the beta version of our Vienna Instruments soloviolin.
Beat Kaufmann sent us three demos in different styles

an excerpt of Mozart Violin concerto KV 216
http://vsl.co.at/upload/forum/VI_beta_demos/BK_Mozart_Vi-Conc_kv216_VI_soloviolin.mp3

an arrangement of Francesco Durante's Danza Danza
http://vsl.co.at/upload/forum/VI_beta_demos/BK_Durante_Danza_VI_soloviolin.mp3

and a Jazz style piece
http://vsl.co.at/upload/forum/VI_beta_demos/BK_Nice_Meeting_VI_soloviolin.mp3

Jay Bacal sent us a version of Jules Massenet's Meditation (violin solo without orchestra), Jay was also so kind to give us the permission to post his midifile (thanks a lot Jay)
http://vsl.co.at/upload/forum/VI_beta_demos/JB_Meditation_VI_soloviolin.mp3
http://vsl.co.at/upload/forum/VI_beta_demos/Meditation_midifile.mid

and finally another jazz style piece by Craig Sharmat (plus midifile - also thanks a lot Craig)
http://vsl.co.at/upload/forum/VI_beta_demos/CS_Ain't_She_Cute.mp3
http://vsl.co.at/upload/forum/VI_beta_demos/CS_Ain't_She_Cute_midifile.mid

best
Herb
Posted on Mon, Dec 19 2005 00:12
by PaulR
Joined on Mon, Dec 22 2003, England, Posts 2371
OK - thanks for posting Herb. I'll get in quick here and say I particularly like the sound in parts of all of them and especially like Beats Mozart.

What I want to know is this:-

Was this programmed with mouse clicks - or played straight in via a keyboard? The videos lead me to believe that by stacking the correct articulations that are needed to be used, you could do this via a keyboard.
Is this just being naive?

TIA.
Posted on Mon, Dec 19 2005 01:57
by edhamilton
Joined on Thu, Jul 17 2003, Posts 109
Would it be possible for the demo creators to post the midi files?

It would tell us all alot about what the work flow will be like with the VI.
It's hard to fully wrap my head around how many midi tracks will be needed, how many key switches .. etc.
In other words how PLAYABLE are the patches.

The midi files would answer a lot of questions.

thanks!
Posted on Mon, Dec 19 2005 05:35
by JBacal
Joined on Sat, Mar 27 2004, Posts 1209
Hi--

My Massenet demo was done with only 1 midi track. I used around 15 keyswitches to access the various articulations.

I am by nature more of a programmer and tweaker than a live performer and that is how I worked on this piece too.

However, the new VI has clearly been designed with the live performer in mind. It automates many articulation changes and makes creating custom collections of articulations extremely simple.

If I had the chops I would have been able to take more advantage of the many new live performance features.

I'm pretty sure Craig Sharmat did a lot of his demo playing live so perhaps he will speak to that.


Best,
Jay
Posted on Mon, Dec 19 2005 06:25
by edhamilton
Joined on Thu, Jul 17 2003, Posts 109
Jay,
Thanks for the info.
Your demo is stunning. Great work.
Posted on Mon, Dec 19 2005 06:34
by Craig Sharmat
Joined on Wed, Oct 16 2002, Woodland Hills, Posts 416
I did do much of my demo work live, but my demo works are not posted, so I will pass at this time till there is a reference up.
Posted on Mon, Dec 19 2005 09:25
by timkiel
Joined on Fri, Jun 06 2003, Posts 629
Good work chaps. Any of you able to comment on any of the following:

i) Stability of the VI VST

ii) RAM/CPU performance whilst playing/recording - esp JBacal's single midi track sounds like it had the world's largest patch sat behind it.

iii) Ease of use/learning curve

iv) Your PC/MAC setup used

If you're under NDA still then not to worry, but perhaps Herb will let you comment anyway....

Cheers

Tim
MacbookPro M1 Pro Max 32GB, Logic 10.7.3 (Rosetta Mode)
Posted on Mon, Dec 19 2005 09:41
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
edhamilton wrote:
Would it be possible for the demo creators to post the midi files?

It would tell us all alot about what the work flow will be like with the VI.
It's hard to fully wrap my head around how many midi tracks will be needed, how many key switches .. etc.
In other words how PLAYABLE are the patches.

The midi files would answer a lot of questions.

thanks!


I can't believe it; Ed and I actually agree on something Big Smile

Without MIDI files the demos are not much use to me, as what I need to know is "Can I program it faster than I can record myself playing it?".

A lot of the new features sound great, but there are still things that I can do better with Pro Ed. However, it remains to be seen whether these will work better in VI or if they will still be a kludge.

On a sidenote, the chord changes in the Mozart Concerto are in the wrong place, unless this is a version I am not familiar with.

DG
Nuendo 6.03, 4.3
2 x Intel Xeon x5675 3.07GHz Hex Core
48GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
ATI HD5400 series graphics card
Posted on Mon, Dec 19 2005 12:20
by PaulR
Joined on Mon, Dec 22 2003, England, Posts 2371
DG wrote:
Without MIDI files the demos are not much use to me, as what I need to know is "Can I program it faster than I can record myself playing it?".
DG


The demos are completely useless AFAIC.

That's not to say they sound bad - they sound good.

But all this could have been done before with current technology.

Speed and playability - particularly with regard to things like repetition is what's needed - it's not how good anything sounds anymore.
Posted on Mon, Dec 19 2005 12:38
by Chinablu
Joined on Tue, Jul 19 2005, Milano, Italy, Posts 147
It would be interesting to know how much time you save rendering the same piece (and, of course, getting the same musical results) in SC and VI...
Posted on Mon, Dec 19 2005 13:30
by JBacal
Joined on Sat, Mar 27 2004, Posts 1209
Herb has my midi file. If he wishes to do so, I have no problem with him posting a link to it here.

However, other than seeing that the entire solo was done on one midi track, I'm not sure precisely what you will be able to discern about the new VI from it.

As I mentioned earlier, because of my keyboard skills (or lack thereof), I was not able to take full advantage of the many playability enhancements. Perhaps version 2.0 will include a "Horowitz" filter for me. Smile

PaulR-- as far as repetition is concerned, the new VI handles this automatically. If you play (or program) the same note (or notes) in a row, the VI automatically switches between multiple repetition samples. You don't have to think a whit about it. And I think many (all?) of the non-repetition articulations now cycle between FOUR different repetition notes. Of course, the actual repetition articulations have up to 9 repetition notes that are triggered automatically(and you can now play these articulations at ANY speed). And the new performance trill articulations have "zillions" of possibilities. I will let the tech people speak to the actual specifics about the new performance trill instruments.

Tim-- there is a great new ram reduction feature in the new VI. You simply play your midi track, the VI "learns" what samples you are using and then dumps all the unused samples freeing up a HUGE amount of ram. That said, I didn't need to take advantage of this feature for this demo. My single P4 computer with 2GB of ram handles this demo without breaking a sweat.

I am convinced that composers will find many features to make their programming chores simpler, faster and more automated.

But for me personally, the greatest advantage of the new VI solo violin has been the wealth of fantastic new sounds! My demo makes use of only a small subset of the new articulations including Zigane (gypsy), progressive vibrato, marcato (piano), portamento (piano), harsh, and artificial harmonics. I didn't even the touch the new Tasto, Ponticello, performance trills and MANY others.

Cheers,
Jay
Posted on Mon, Dec 19 2005 15:02
by PaulR
Joined on Mon, Dec 22 2003, England, Posts 2371
Confused now.

What's the point of of beta testers that have no keyboard skills?

Don't understand and getting more than a little irritated now.
Posted on Mon, Dec 19 2005 15:21
by herb
Joined on Mon, Aug 05 2002, Posts 4622
I've added Jays midifile in the first topic (thanks a lot for the permission Jay), and also added Craigs demo ((sorry Craig, I simply forgot to post your demo)

best
Herb
Posted on Mon, Dec 19 2005 15:30
by JMBurrell
Joined on Thu, Sep 22 2005, Spartanburg, SC, Posts 67
PaulR wrote:
Confused now.

What's the point of of beta testers that have no keyboard skills?

Don't understand and getting more than a little irritated now.


With all due respect Paul, I'm sure you can be a competent musician without having a lick of keyboard skill. In fact I'm positive this is the case.

Now, I'll give you that there should be at least one person beta testing who has decent live chops, but I don't think its a pre-requisite to being one.
Posted on Mon, Dec 19 2005 15:46
by PaulR
Joined on Mon, Dec 22 2003, England, Posts 2371
Joseph Burrell wrote:

With all due respect Paul, I'm sure you can be a competent musician without having a lick of keyboard skill. In fact I'm positive this is the case.


No argument with that at all. But you are completely missing my point here Joseph.
Surely, the main point of the VI in the first place is for direct input from a midi controller - without going into whether it's fair or not that most midi controllers are keyboards!

In the First Ed, Horizon and Pro Series originally, there are gigs and gigs of repetition samples. Tons of them. No one and I mean NO ONE that I know ever used them because of the convoluted software involved. Now, all these rep samples are apparently much easier to access via the new VI interface. Great!
However, my beef is, surely this should have been supplied to users already, so as to be able to actually USE all these rep samples they previously bought.
What if you don't want, or can't afford to buy into the new VI? You're stuck with gigs of rep samples you can't really use in any fast and efficient manner.
This is surely what the VI is all about - speed of usage.
That sucks! That is total bollocks in my view. Sorry to VSL for this, but there it is.

Joseph Burrell wrote:
Now, I'll give you that there should be at least one person beta testing who has decent live chops, but I don't think its a pre-requisite to being one.


Yeah - and it should be someone with no history or affiliations and all the political crap that goes with sample developers spread out all over the forums. [Wink]

For an extra $6000 I would have thought that was reasonable.
Posted on Mon, Dec 19 2005 15:55
by herb
Joined on Mon, Aug 05 2002, Posts 4622
Paul, our best "tester" regarding live performance is our chief developer Christian Teuscher himself. He is one of our best and well known live keyboard artist here in Austria.
One of the main aspects in developing the Vienna Instruments, was his wish to perform live with VSL as advanced as possible.

By the way, there are a lot users which are working succesfully with the repetition content. Ok, more sequenzer related and propably not at live gigs.

best
Herb
Posted on Mon, Dec 19 2005 16:01
by JBacal
Joined on Sat, Mar 27 2004, Posts 1209
PaulR--
First I never said I have no skills at the keyboard. I can play Beethoven’s entire Sonata Pathetique from memory and at a level good enough to entertain the family and three cats.

But because I have very specific ideas about how I would like a part to be played, I prefer most often to program the nuances. It's quicker for me, and I have more control. In order to achieve the same results, I would have to practice the parts I am entering before I sequenced them. And besides many orchestral instrument parts are just not very idiomatic on the keyboard. Also I imagine there are a number of composers out there who's primary instrument is not the keyboard and they may find my methods to be of some interest to them.

There was a famous piano teacher who had very little patience for discussing piano technique. When asked how to best approach a certain difficult passage he replied, "Play it with your nose for all I care as long as it sounds!" Unlike this teacher I am happy to discuss my methods, but I agree that "how it sounds" is in the end the most important consideration. I think all of us will have different methods to achieve that "sound."

I'm not sure how Beat approached his demos, but Craig I know has chops to spare and will talk I'm sure about his experience as soon as his demo is posted.


Best regards,
Jay
Posted on Mon, Dec 19 2005 16:12
by Craig Sharmat
Joined on Wed, Oct 16 2002, Woodland Hills, Posts 416
PaulR wrote:
Confused now.

What's the point of of beta testers that have no keyboard skills?

Don't understand and getting more than a little irritated now.


I have limited Keyboard skills (I am a guitarist first), but do play almost everything in. the convience in sequencing with this VI is unprecedented. I can honestly say this has been the best sampling sequencing experience I have had. One track, everything available. One can use the intelligent tools to get off and running, but there are always a plethora of other options quickly available. One of the problems I encountered was allowing the intelligent tools to dictate my choices. what I mean by that is if you let it choose for you, you get a really good result, but you may accept it without checking out other options.

another way of looking at the VI is by really thinking of it as an instrument. Like any instrument you need to know where things are, but once you do, working becomes much easier. Also the VI is of course custom so you can create each VI to suit your needs. The difference in using this as opposed to using GS or Kontakt is actually not comparable as the sequencing experience between them really is not relevent. this is a whole new animal.

also if anyone would like to see my midi file, i can make it available.
Posted on Mon, Dec 19 2005 16:13
by DaveTubaKing
Joined on Fri, Feb 27 2004, London, Posts 770
its often been a concern of mine that keyboard players would not be best placed to interpret individual instrumental lines and that piano technique will throw up many limitations in achieving a convincing solo instrumental line. I understand that thats the way the industry has been todate, everything developed by and for keyboard players. But that's not necessarily the best way. I hope that the VI's will make life a lot simpler for notation driven music.

Jay how did you input the individual notes?

(I haven't listened to the demo yet)
David Carter https://sorabjiorchestralmusic.wordpress.com/
https://www.youtube.com/...UCoEithAEjsd4IBViwsfQFwQ

W10 Pro (64bit), Z390 Aorus Pro wifi MB, Intel i7-8700K s.7 GHz, Corsair 64GB (4x16GB) DDR4 3000MHz, Samsung 970 EVO M.2, 2 x OCZ Agility 3 480GB SSDs, Sibelius 8.4.1, Symphonic cube, VEPro7, MIRPro, Focustite Scarlett Solo, Nvidia GeForce GT 710 2GB GDDR5
Posted on Mon, Dec 19 2005 16:13
by PaulR
Joined on Mon, Dec 22 2003, England, Posts 2371
herb wrote:
Paul, our best "tester" regarding live performance is our chief developer Christian Teuscher himself. He is one of our best and well known live keyboard artist here in Austria.
One of the main aspects in developing the Vienna Instruments, was his wish to perform live with VSL as advanced as possible.

By the way, there are a lot users which are working successfully with the repetition content. Ok, more sequencer related and probably not at live gigs.

best
Herb


Herb - great respect to you as always. I'm not trying to get one over on you or anyone here. Therefore I will ignore Jay's post for the nonsense that it is.

What I would like to see is this - because, let's be honest here - $6000 plus bucks is a fair investment, ON TOP of any previous ones. I think that's fair.

Christian Teuscher is AFFILIATED to VSL.

For this kind of dough, you should maybe think of getting hold of a keyboard player who has NEVER seen or heard of VSL and ask him or her to test this thing. It would be from absolute scratch. Any feedback from that would be more relevant than from anywhere else imo. And ask the same new tester to use the old style Repetition and see how that comes out.

All the beta testers here know what they're doing. I may as well go to a Ferrari garage and ask to listen to a recording of the car's engine.
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