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Last post Thu, Feb 02 2006 by JWL, 34 replies.
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Posted on Fri, Jan 20 2006 11:12
by dominic crawford collins
Joined on Thu, Jan 12 2006, Posts 25
Hi there - I have just acquired the Pro Orchestral Cube after working with the Peter Sielaczeck Orchestra for many years, using a bank of four 128mb EMU samplers. Whilst the Vienna samples themselves are very definitely superior I am having great difficulty with 'overloading' and cutting out of sounds - even with relatively few instruments playing - a problem that I never encountered with my previous set up, in fact one that I only recall way back from the Atari/Notator/S1000 days!. The Vienna Library is installed on an external drive which is full to only half of its capacity - has anyone else had any similar experiences/ suggestions? - many thanks - DCC Surpriseops:
Posted on Fri, Jan 20 2006 12:06
by Holgmeister
Joined on Fri, Feb 13 2004, Gross Zimmern, Posts 142
Usually it is because of the overload of your sampler SW plus PC.
What is your system configuration (Speed, memory, Sound Card?) and what is your SW?
Orchestral Noise and Magick
Symphonic Cube, Piano, Prepared Piano and MIR24
Posted on Fri, Jan 20 2006 12:39
by dominic crawford collins
Joined on Thu, Jan 12 2006, Posts 25
very many thanks for your response! - I am afraid that I don't know what you mean by Sampler SW and PC! I am running a Dual 2.7 Ghz Mac G5 and using Logic Pro 7.0. The computer system has 4.5 GB Memory - the sound card is a PCI-424 using Core Audio - the only information I can find on speed is as follows PC3200U-30330 - does that make the slightest sense??!
Posted on Fri, Jan 20 2006 12:47
by Holgmeister
Joined on Fri, Feb 13 2004, Gross Zimmern, Posts 142
This should more than enough to have a smooth play. Cutting of sounds usually means that your Mac would run out of ressources.
But your Setup with Dual Core / 4.7 GB RAM should be more than fine.
How many instruments are you trying to run at the same time?
Maybe one with a similiar MAC setup can tell, if its a ressource problem.
But other than that, it would be a setup/hardware problem. I run only my scoring on the MAC and the Sampler on the PC.
Orchestral Noise and Magick
Symphonic Cube, Piano, Prepared Piano and MIR24
Posted on Sat, Jan 21 2006 09:56
by dominic crawford collins
Joined on Thu, Jan 12 2006, Posts 25
I have managed to isolate a passage where the problem occurs with only three instruments playing : a harp - the string ensemble and the sustained double basses. If I mute any one of the three, the problem, which manifests itself most obviously when the held string notes cut out (only two notes held together!), disappears. I have tried reducing the overall output level and level of individual notes but it makes no difference - can't understand why this should happen!
Posted on Sat, Jan 21 2006 10:13
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7419
Welcome Dominic,

sorry to hear that you experience problems. Do I understand correctly that you are using GigaSampler on the PC, and use Logic only for sequencing, or are you using Logic'S EXS?
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Sat, Jan 21 2006 19:15
by dominic crawford collins
Joined on Thu, Jan 12 2006, Posts 25
Hi there Dietz - I am using Logic's EXS24 - Logic for everything!
Posted on Sat, Jan 21 2006 19:56
by Sandpiper
Joined on Wed, May 28 2003, Cumbria UK, Posts 74
dominic crawford collins wrote:
I have managed to isolate a passage where the problem occurs with only three instruments playing : a harp - the string ensemble and the sustained double basses. If I mute any one of the three, the problem, which manifests itself most obviously when the held string notes cut out (only two notes held together!), disappears. I have tried reducing the overall output level and level of individual notes but it makes no difference - can't understand why this should happen!


If the problem is not caused by I/O buffer settings or EXS streaming preferences then I have noticed that some problems can occasionally be a MIDI matter.

Because the problem can be made to go away as you describe then what I write below may not apply but they are useful to know when it comes to note length problems ie a note cuts off before it should.

Situation 1. Midi event (note) overlap can prevent the triggering of a note making it appear as if the musical line is cut off.

Situation 2. An shorter event may be hiding behind a longer event can cause note lengths to be different from what you thought should happen.

Situation 3. All efforts to find the problem seem to fail. Sometimes just deleting a note and manually entering it with the Pencil tools cures the problem.

Situation 4. You have played notes in whilst using a sustaining pedal. Later you move notes within the sequence. The pedal event are now out of line with the note events causing note length problems.
Posted on Sun, Jan 22 2006 08:17
by dominic crawford collins
Joined on Thu, Jan 12 2006, Posts 25
thanks for your suggestions, all four situations of which I am familiar!

I have tried all possible buffer settings all with the same result. As for Stream Manager - I am only using Core Audio and not DAE or DTDM so I am not sure what settings that I can alter?

www.dominiccrawfordcollins.com[/url]
Posted on Mon, Jan 23 2006 01:43
by Dietz
Joined on Tue, Aug 06 2002, Vienna / Europe, Posts 7419
dominic crawford collins wrote:
Hi there Dietz - I am using Logic's EXS24 - Logic for everything!

I will move this thread to our EXS-forum then - you will get the attention of our Logic-gurus more easily over there.

All the best!
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
Posted on Mon, Jan 23 2006 01:52
by marnix
Joined on Tue, Mar 16 2004, Vienna, Posts 984
Hi Dominic,

Please be sure to have activated "Virtual Memory", Logics disc streaming functionality for the EXS 24 mkII.

I just sent you a message with more information about it!

Best, Marnix
Posted on Mon, Jan 23 2006 06:06
by dominic crawford collins
Joined on Thu, Jan 12 2006, Posts 25
virtual memory is activated and I have tried a variety of settings for disk drive speed and activity - all with the same result! I have 4.5 gigs of RAM so presumably that is not the issue?
Posted on Mon, Jan 23 2006 12:26
by Dar32
Joined on Fri, May 20 2005, USA, Posts 373
Dominic

There is nothing wrong with your system. You are just running out of CPU. What you need to do is start Freezing your files. Once you start with one at a time , you can continue to build timber. And every time you shut down and the system boots up with the frozen files you gain more head room.

Best Regards !
Posted on Mon, Jan 23 2006 18:57
by dominic crawford collins
Joined on Thu, Jan 12 2006, Posts 25
absolutely brilliant - this has done the trick - many thanks!! although when I press play at the beginning of the piece (which it is not heavily orchestrated), the Core Audio 'disk too slow system overload' warning comes up and prohibits me continuing!
Posted on Mon, Jan 23 2006 20:37
by Sandpiper
Joined on Wed, May 28 2003, Cumbria UK, Posts 74
dominic crawford collins wrote:
absolutely brilliant - this has done the trick - many thanks!! although when I press play at the beginning of the piece (which it is not heavily orchestrated), the Core Audio 'disk too slow system overload' warning comes up and prohibits me continuing!


I presume you know about swap files that the system uses. The build up of swap files can cause symptoms like that. A restart (and other routines) will clear them out.
Posted on Mon, Jan 23 2006 22:29
by david ender
Joined on Fri, Feb 20 2004, Vienna/Austria, Posts 461
Hi Dominic,

what's the external drive connection? Could it be that the drive (or its pipeline) really is too slow so that the samples can't be loaded quick enough? You could try and lend another drive from someone to check that out ...

Regards,
David
VSL manuals
Posted on Mon, Jan 23 2006 22:45
by Dar32
Joined on Fri, May 20 2005, USA, Posts 373
Dominic

My drive usually does the same thing when it sleeps or idles for a while. After the first play go it wakes up. If it keeps recuring then you are way in the CPU red margin , Which basicaly means you've loaded up all the Harps so to speak or all the timpany's, For Example; So you will have to Freeze the whole bunch. Other is your Audio Hardware settings. They make a Difference in I/O Buffer especially.Remember to have Logic save files with backup folder default because thats where the Freeze files will reside.

I have an example page concerning similar matters here :

http://web.mac.com/robsnob/iWeb/ORCHESTRATION/03C364B9-F2F1-47CD-91F7-1C64479130FA.html

Best
Regards
Posted on Tue, Jan 24 2006 03:01
by Dar32
Joined on Fri, May 20 2005, USA, Posts 373
I forgot one other point

My drive seems to be acting up a little bit with the new Tiger OS. When it starts to hick up, I will hide as many tracks in arrange window and sort of neet things up a bit
and it seems to pick up and works fine for a good stretch. Its all the freeze files. freezing also effects tempo changes . Be careful. If you edit way down a track
it will move everything. Just minor issues. Though !

best
Posted on Thu, Jan 26 2006 10:44
by JWL
Joined on Sun, Jul 20 2003, Posts 1274
I'm running a G5 2.5 dual with 4.5 GB RAM and have had this same dropout-cutoff problem with only two instances loaded.

Freezing tracks is fine if you orchestrate one entire part at a time from beginning to end, but I can rarely work that way. Also, it seems that with only two instances loaded, freezing and unfreezing *ought not* be necessary to save resources that are hardly used.

This has been a source of confusion for a long time.
Posted on Sat, Jan 28 2006 08:49
by JT3_Jon
Joined on Fri, Jun 04 2004, Palmdale CA (1 hour north of LA), Posts 468
JWL wrote:
I'm running a G5 2.5 dual with 4.5 GB RAM and have had this same dropout-cutoff problem with only two instances loaded.


Hello JWL,

When you say "two instances," are you saying only two audio instrument tracks, or are you running EXS in multi-mode? I'm running a G5 2.5 dual with only 3 GB of ram and can get 30+ single EXS instances easy with Opus 1+2, as well as multiple Kontakt instances.

Are you running your samples from a dedicated hard drive that does NOT contain any OS or Applications? For example, I have all my samples on a second SATA internal drive, and leave my other drive to just house the OS and applications. Seems to work great for streaming.

Also, you may want to actually test your RAM and make sure its working properly. Apple hardware test is not very good at testing ram, thus I recommend you check out memtestosx.org.

BTW, I dont use too many performance legato patches, or very many "multiple samples" patches. Just use the plan old vanilla ones, as they dont need as much RAM to load. But I can still load more than two performance instruments and I have less ram than you, which leads me to believe your RAM may be faulty.

Hope this helps.
Epic Prog rock music using VSL samples - http://www.aeonsatori.com

System specs: Mac Pro 5,1 3.33GHz 12 core 48GB RAM
OS 10.11.6 Cubase 8.5 Vienna Ensemble Pro 6.0.27022(64-bit)

PC: Core i7-2600 32GB Ram, Windows 8, Vienna Ensemble Pro 6.0.17011(64-bit)
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