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long note for contra-basson
Last post Sun, Aug 27 2006 by mathis, 12 replies.
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Posted on Fri, Aug 25 2006 12:00
by c3kings
Joined on Fri, Jul 28 2006, Posts 48
Dear All,
I am using contra-basson (to be exact, KFA_PERF-LEG_P+F from Opus 2) to play a long bass note for my composition. However, it is very short. I want to have about 10 seconds long. What should I do? Please help.
Thank you very much.
King
Posted on Fri, Aug 25 2006 12:44
by DG
Joined on Wed, May 12 2004, Posts 8608
Use a sus patch instead.

DG
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Posted on Fri, Aug 25 2006 17:11
by c3kings
Joined on Fri, Jul 28 2006, Posts 48
Thanks DG. When you said sus patch, are you saying sustain instrument? However, Opus 2's contra-basson has only legato instrument. (Opus 1 has no contra-basson) Maybe, I miss something? Please help.
Thanks.
King
Posted on Fri, Aug 25 2006 17:28
by nliberg
Joined on Fri, Dec 02 2005, Posts 232
c3kings wrote:
Thanks DG. When you said sus patch, are you saying sustain instrument? However, Opus 2's contra-basson has only legato instrument. (Opus 1 has no contra-basson) Maybe, I miss something? Please help.
Thanks.
King


The Opus 1 manual says about the included basson instrument: "Instrument range: A#0–A1: contrabassoon; A#1–F5: bassoon".

Nils
Posted on Fri, Aug 25 2006 19:06
by mathis
Joined on Sat, Feb 07 2004, Munich, Germany, Posts 1137
c3kings wrote:
Thanks DG. When you said sus patch, are you saying sustain instrument? However, Opus 2's contra-basson has only legato instrument. (Opus 1 has no contra-basson) Maybe, I miss something? Please help.
Thanks.
King


The standard bassoon of Opus1 has an added octave of contra-basson below.
Posted on Sat, Aug 26 2006 12:17
by c3kings
Joined on Fri, Jul 28 2006, Posts 48
Dear All,

Now I do find out that FA_PV_SUS has the contrabasson range, but the notes produced by this instrument are still not long enough. The notes are just about 8 seconds long. (In fact, some notes are longer than others, but not much longer. Each note has different lenght.)

I want the contrabasson to hold a very long note as the base. What can I do?

I think I heard a member told me the word "looped" in my another post. He/She said that certain kinds of instruments are looped. My questions: 1./ how the notes are looped? Automatically or I need to do something to loop the notes? 2./ What kind of instrument is looped?

I believe it must be some way to work out, but I just don't know, for it is very common for classical pieces, for example, Mozart's symphony, to have tied long notes over many bars in woodwind section to sustain the harmony.

Please help, and thank you very much.

King
Posted on Sat, Aug 26 2006 13:03
by nliberg
Joined on Fri, Dec 02 2005, Posts 232
Hi King,
Opus 2 (in case you own it) contains looped instruments. Checkout OPUS 2\\K2-Instruments\\2b Woodwind\\30a BASSOON_looped-sus. It doesn't seem to span the same range as the Opus 1 contrabasson though, so you might have to either stretch the looped notes or setup your own loops for the non-looped sustains. Loops are handled by Kontakt so once they have been setup you just need to hold a note and parts of the sample will be automatically repeated as needed. Another solution is to use two sustained notes in sequence with a little overlap (eg. one can use the sustain pedal to do that).

Nils
Posted on Sun, Aug 27 2006 08:59
by mathis
Joined on Sat, Feb 07 2004, Munich, Germany, Posts 1137
Check out if Mozart really used a Contra-bassoon. You need more air the lower you go.
Posted on Sun, Aug 27 2006 12:01
by c3kings
Joined on Fri, Jul 28 2006, Posts 48
nliberg wrote:
Hi King,
Opus 2 (in case you own it) contains looped instruments. Checkout OPUS 2\\K2-Instruments\\2b Woodwind\\30a BASSOON_looped-sus. It doesn't seem to span the same range as the Opus 1 contrabasson though, so you might have to either stretch the looped notes or setup your own loops for the non-looped sustains. Loops are handled by Kontakt so once they have been setup you just need to hold a note and parts of the sample will be automatically repeated as needed. Another solution is to use two sustained notes in sequence with a little overlap (eg. one can use the sustain pedal to do that).

Nils


Hi, Nils, Thank you for giving me the hints. I am trying to set up a loop by Kontakt.

So far, I have chosen two notes (D# and G) from a contra-bassoon legato instrument from Opus 2 to set up a loop for each of them. I sort of have successfully found the loop start and end in Loop Section and playing it seamlessly in Loop Editor (You know, with Loop Button, the “N” button, on and pressing the Play button). However, when I press down the midi keyboard, it doesn’t initiate this loop; instead, it just plays back the original sample.

I even saved the instrument and renamed it, but this doesn’t work.

I have a feeling that I need to save something within Kontakt in order to let it work, but I don’t know how, though I tried to find the solution from Kontakt manual.

Please help, Nils or any expert.

Thanks in advance .

King
Posted on Sun, Aug 27 2006 12:06
by c3kings
Joined on Fri, Jul 28 2006, Posts 48
mathis wrote:
Check out if Mozart really used a Contra-bassoon. You need more air the lower you go.


Sorry for the confusion. I was just giving an example about woodwind long notes used in symphony, maybe, Mozart or Shostakovich. You know, I have been struggling with long note played contra basson, so I just mixed Mozart with contra-bassoon in my head and spoke out.
Anyway, I think Mozart didn't use contra-bassoon in his symphonies, not 100% sure.
Thanks anyway.
Posted on Sun, Aug 27 2006 12:36
by nliberg
Joined on Fri, Dec 02 2005, Posts 232
c3kings wrote:
Hi, Nils, Thank you for giving me the hints. I am trying to set up a loop by Kontakt.

So far, I have chosen two notes (D# and G) from a contra-bassoon legato instrument from Opus 2 to set up a loop for each of them. I sort of have successfully found the loop start and end in Loop Section and playing it seamlessly in Loop Editor (You know, with Loop Button, the “N” button, on and pressing the Play button). However, when I press down the midi keyboard, it doesn’t initiate this loop; instead, it just plays back the original sample.

I even saved the instrument and renamed it, but this doesn’t work.

I have a feeling that I need to save something within Kontakt in order to let it work, but I don’t know how, though I tried to find the solution from Kontakt manual.

Please help, Nils or any expert.

Thanks in advance .

King


Hi King,
If you only want this effect for a couple of notes I think the overlaping sustained notes is the easiest solution. However, if you really want to construct your own looped samples, then I suggest you look at the looped instruments in Opus 2 to see how they are setup and then try to replicate that. When you try out your looped samples make sure that you actually trigger looped zones. In 'Mapping Editor' activate 'Solo Zone' to only use the active zone. I hope this helps. Saving and/or renaming the instrument should not be necessary AFAIK.

Nils
Posted on Sun, Aug 27 2006 14:48
by mathis
Joined on Sat, Feb 07 2004, Munich, Germany, Posts 1137
c3kings wrote:
mathis wrote:
Check out if Mozart really used a Contra-bassoon. You need more air the lower you go.


Sorry for the confusion. I was just giving an example about woodwind long notes used in symphony, maybe, Mozart or Shostakovich. You know, I have been struggling with long note played contra basson, so I just mixed Mozart with contra-bassoon in my head and spoke out.
Anyway, I think Mozart didn't use contra-bassoon in his symphonies, not 100% sure.
Thanks anyway.


I didn't write this to be a know-it-all, but just to indicate that the long notes in VSL are actually recordings of a complete breath. So, of course in Midi you can do what you want, but if you want to have it played by a real contra-bassoon player you might have the same problem.

But I also hear that VSL long notes are on the more relaxed side of breathing.
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