Thanks for your thoughts and perspective on the struggles we face as composers to cultivate an interested and responsive audience, littleweirdo.

I was just visiting with my brother-in-law for the past few days, who is also a professional composer, and we spoke at length about this very issue.  I won't bore everyone to death, but from my perspective on the relative apathy here on the forum specifically, I'd like to offer a few observations:

1)  I've been here only 5 years, (others such as William and Jasen, much longer) and in that time, I've seen boom and bust periods.  Generally, most of the feedback has been generated by a small group of active forum members/composers, most of whom would go in to great detail with their comments.  This always gave the forum the impression of more activity than there actually was.  For the most part, lurkers/passive listeners are the norm, here and virtually anywhere online.

2)  It's an unwritten rule that reciprocity is expected.  Some people are generous with their comments of others' work, and sadly wouldn't receive much feedback on their own work.  This led to some of them abandoning the forum.

3)  There are the typical style wars/political considerations that always come in to play.  Over the years, some composers have been heavily criticized by other forum members, (often for the music, but just as much for personality conflicts) which has led to a decline in those willing to post, for fear of being caught up in flame wars.

4)  Some of the more complex music by professional composers will not fit with the musical sensibilities of the vast majority, who prefer more easily digestable music.  Also, many hobbyist composers will feel ill-equiped to offer any kind of real insight in to the music, and would rather leave it for others to do (which, of course, doesn't happen)

5)  I can personally state that there are those here that will purposely avoid my offerings for their own personal reasons, and for that, I'm not at all disappointed.  I am however, sad that many people whom I had previously enjoyed discussing things with, have left the forum completely (some have emailed me to express this, while others have just "disappeared."  

I don't know where this leaves things, but the best course of action, in my opinion, is to continue to share.  You never know who you impact with your work, even if you don't directly get feedback.  People enjoy music, and if they're comfortable commenting on your work, they will...if not, at least they gave it a listen!  So, my advice to you, littleweirdo, is continue doing your thing.  Music is a part of your life and you clearly enjoy it, so don't let the apathy get you down...instead use it as motivation to become an even more prolific creator.  Eventually, someone, somewhere, will give you the validation you seek, and in the meantime, you can be proud of your own accomplishments.

As for your Debussy comment on my own piece, I probably was channeling Debussy on a subconscious level, but there was no direct attempt to emulate his style :)

Cheers!

Dave

Love it, Bill!  I'm digging the contemplative mood around the 1:30 mark and the suspense at 4:40.  And, as always, the grandiosity of your orchestration shines through brilliantly.  Congratulations on another gem, and hope the sheet music is purchased and performed!

All the best,

Dave

Sam,

Thanks for this thought-provoking account of your musical journey.  You write so eloquently, and expressed a sincere love and curiosity for music that one hopes would spread like a wildfire.  

I wouldn't speculate as to how unique your experience is in the larger scheme of things, but I suspect that you're in a small minority of people whose intellectual curiosity overcomes whatever educational limitations/constraints were in place during your youth.  I always like to think that certain vocations in life are callings (religious clergy, musicians, etc.) and as long as you listen to your heart, you'll find your path...whether you start playing an instrument at 3 or discover your first cello suite at 58 :)

Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject and of course, for taking the time to listen to the piece.

All the best,

Dave

Thanks, Bill!  This was one of the bigger projects I've been working on, and it's funny, but the more I think about it, music might be one of the only pursuits where more work=less reward.  Case in point:  I spent a significant amount of time on the midi for this piece, which has been met with absolute silence on every online outlet I've shared it (your comment being the only exception).  However, short 2-3 minute tracks always generate some activity (and are a lot easier to put together than something like this!) 

It's sad to me that this type of music rarely finds an audience, and that many people don't feel confident talking about it and/or listening to it in the first place. It always feels like we write artistically for ourselves and our fellow artists, when it would be really nice for it to connect with non-performers (this piece, for example has already received a bunch of positive feedback from some musician friends I sent it to, but zero from the general public).

I'm a member of a few different performance organizations, and one recently had an article on how the only way we'll engage the public to attend live classical music performances is to change the repertoire, change the make-up of the musicians (as in, ensure a more culturally diverse group of performers on stage that audiences can "relate to") and make it more affordable.  I would argue the only reason this type of music doesn't connect, is because people have had little to no experience with it growing up.  It has always been the domain of the "cultural elite" and this infuriates me, as there is no reason classical music can't appeal to anyone, as long as it's part of the formative development of children.  Don't even get me started on how the vast majority of music teachers today in the public school system avoid classical music like the plague in favour only of jazz/rock and other popular forms (which of course should be part of the overall music experience alongside more traditional forms).  

Rant over :)

Dave

Being a creative brings with it triumphant elation and demoralizing despair. When Doubt Arises for clarinet, piano, violin, and cello is a 2 movement work that seeks to explore the multitude of emotions experienced in the pursuit of artistic excellence. As a composer, during the writing process, I have gone from brimming with confidence in the opening twelve measures, to a feeling of helplessness a few measures later. The constant cycle of emotions is a natural part of the process, but it is never easy to cope with. The best solution I’ve found is to plough forward, always writing, always attempting to create something with meaning, while drowning out the noise of trepidation and uncertainty. Usually, by the end of the process, I feel confident that I’ve achieved my goal and that I’ll have vanquished the demon of doubt from my mind…until the next piece begins.

Warning: art music ahead  (I know this style of music isn't everybody's cup of tea, but I appreciate the few of you that may find some interest in this)

When Doubt Arises - Listen on Youtube

Cheers!

Dave

So, I'll forgo the image of you in the bathtub, Jasen, but if you have an Alexa/Google Home, feel free to stream the piece from the comfort of your bathroom :)

Cheers!

Dave

Hey William,

I hope the process is moving along with your tone poem.  Revisiting music later can lead to a lot of "what the heck was I thinking?" moments, and trying to generate a score from midi is a pain in the best of times.  I feel for ya!

Key signatures should simply be considered a courtesy...besides not providing them will keep people sharp (pun intended).

As for the Moonlit Tryst, it's still calming me while working on 4 simultaenous large-scale pieces, with Becky and me taking turns in the studio while the other listens to the avant-garde song stylings of an almost two year old.

Maybe a drink would be good now :)

Cheers!

Dave

Thanks Tom and Bill!  Glad you both enjoyed it.  Bill, oh I procrastinate as much as the next guy, even if I don't drink of gamble...although, both of those options are looking more enjoyable than tackling some of these projects right now.  Hmmm... :)

Cheers!

Dave

I'm knee-deep in a number of large-scale works, and needed a distraction from them, so here goes:

Moonlit Tryst by David Carovillano (youtube link)

It is scored for string orchestra and string quartet (sordino), as well as harp (all VSL instruments).

Hope you enjoy!

Dave

Originally Posted by: fatis12_24918

Originally Posted by: littlewierdo

I plan on purchasing a license for SE 7 in a couple weeks. VSL tapped my limited funds releasing dim strings and dim brass back to back, and since ... Anyway, I have a newfound appreciation for 17th and early 18th century music, even if these composers only understood soft and loud with no other variants. Im really excited to get my hands on SE 7, and if they offered a demo, Id do the 30 day demo while I wait the two weeks until money once again comes in to buy a license...

Well, actually these composers were understanding quite more than soft and loud 😉 the fact they didn’t write dynamics and expressions at the detail of romantic and contemporary composers, is just due to the musical education: music interpretation was a relatively personal skill, a common practice in the professional environment and each player or conductor was giving life to music, with a mixture of rules and habits and improvisation, following the mood and lines or harmony inspiration. This is not surprising: look to a page of the real book of jazz... is it meaning that jazz composers and players don’t know about polyphony or arrangement? The opposite, they assume you know so well, that is not requested to write all... same for early music. 😜

Well stated, Fatis :)

I feel your pain, Bill!  We're doing the exact same thing, now that we're moving over to Dorico.  For instance, I've got a Finale file for an orchestral piece that didn't have percussion in it (because at the time I preferred to export to Cubase, add percussion there based on my available VI's, before re-doing the Finale score to reflect the actual percussion I used.)  Anyway, the long and short of it is, that between OCR muddying up Finale files to Dorico, percussion tracks not properly exported from Cubase, and other annoying things, we've essentially had to re-do things from scratch in Dorico.  Eventually, we'll have a workflow that is efficient...

Looking forward to hearing your other works as they become available!

Dave

Hi Bill,

You have lush, beautiful, introspective, and serene down to a science (or is it an art?)  Of course, the dramatic, bold moments shine equally well.  A very sensitive, evocative performance, and I hope whatever isn't sitting right with you in the mix gets resolved to your satisfaction.  It sounds just about perfect from here, but I don't have "the gift" some of you have in dissecting sounds down to their individual wave forms :)

Great job!

Dave

Tom,

As always, I'm truly humbled by the kind words you have for the music I share on the forum, and your encouragement serves as motivation to continue down this path, in spite of the numerous challenges you and I have discussed.

I agree with you that the transparency of chamber music, with the ability to discern every subtle detail and nuance, lends itself to a live performance, as one would hope the individual musicians' skills alongside their ensemble effort to interpret the music in a meaningful and convincing manner, would showcase the music in the best possible light.  One thing I'm guilty of, is writing music without concern for the sample library's strengths/weaknesses.  I rarely write to the samples, as all my concert music is scored first, then imported in to a DAW to create the performance.  It's there that I have to make the samples do my bidding, so to speak...and at times, a missing articulation, or a sample that just doesn't cut it, would be easily handled by a skilled professional. That said, with the sampled version, one can guarantee note/rhythmic accuracy, among other technical elements that are often compromised due to human error in live performance (although, this then begs the question:  is a technically flawless performance better or worse than the imperfections of a live performance that often enhance the "realism/authenticity" of the music?)

As for Bill's large-scale orchestral works, I've suggested the same thing to him as you have: it is highly unlikely that an orchestra would devote the significant time/resources to a one-off performance that would rival the virtual version Bill has so painstakingly created.  He should still pursue it though, for exactly the reasons you suggested when you performed his piece.  Any given piece can have multiple forms of meaning for any individual that comes in to contact with that music.  The more I compose, the more I come to grips with my own reality:  the saddest thing is not writing a piece that doesn't live up to my expectations, or doesn't satisfy me in live performance; it is realizing the vast majority of my music won't be heard at all.  

All the best,

Dave

Tom:  Your continued support and kind words do so much to motivate and inspire.  Thank you!  As for returning to composition, I think all musicians suffer from the Godfather reality:  "just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in."  :)

Sam:  There's a complete misunderstanding re. my attempt at humour with the "analysis" post that followed William's mention of La Mer.  

To clarify, I was absolutely blown away at your detailed analysis and quite honoured that someone would even take the time to listen/analyze something I wrote to that extent!  I fully agree with your thoughts that analysis can provide greater insight and appreciation, and that those gifted enough (such as you) to have this ability should by all means exercise it.  Thanks again for your contributions to this thread and elsewhere on the forum.  It's becoming a lively meeting place again.

Cheers,
Dave

Thanks again, Sam and William.  

Analysis of music is just like analyzing biblical scripture.  You can find hidden codes and meaning in virtually everything.  Do you know when a plagal cadence is more than just a plagal cadence?  And what about that series of passing tones in bar 104?   Just what was he trying to tell us with those ridiculous 32nd notes?  But, you really should be scared by those composers that still insist on hand-writing their scores.  Just look at the way he drew that treble clef, I swear there's an eye in there...Illuminati perhaps? :) lol

Time to go read the Bach Code.

Dave

Hi Sam,

Well, what can I say?  I've never had a piece of music analyzed to such an extent.  Your detailed answer brought me back to my first year of school, and exuberant professors that derived great joy from breaking down theme groups, sketching out figured bass, and introducing us to our new best friend, Heinrich Schenker.  Of course, I've leaned towards Debussy's thought that there is no theory and you only have to listen.  I'd rather suggest that the theory is well-ingrained and instinctively channeled in to the music I write.  I certainly don't sketch out a plan prior to writing, and prefer the sponteneity of just "doing it" and letting it evolve in to what it will be.

To clarify, the piece is a demo for the VSL Special Edition 5: Synchronized Dimenson Strings library, and can be found on the library's demo page, alongside the peerless Guy Baco's demos, among others. 

As for the criticism re. those "firework-like" string runs...I'll admit to purposely choosing to use portamentos to blur the sound and essentially simulate rapid glisses.  The runs are just marginally too fast to be properly articulated and when doing so with just a basic legato keyswitch, sounded very midi-precise (I couldn't "ugly" up the sound and make the runs sound totally authentic with the limited number of articulations available).  A little trivia: the piece was originally written for my accordion/clarinet duo, but I stubbornly held to keeping them in the string version, even if a little unrealistic :)

Thank you for listening, and sharing your own talents in breaking down the work like this.  If you're not already working in a post-secondary environment, I'm sure many music theory departments would love to have you on board!

Cheers!

Dave

p.s.  the ape has 3 more years before he's eligible for parole :)