Thanks to you and thanks to Paul.

Dietz, thank you for these detailed answers.  This excellent support adds a lot of value to the VSL products.  I'm looking at this point by point.

Thanks, Paul. So, for a score-based composition, Velocity is sufficient.  

(You should put this information at the top of the Synchron Player manual, I think.)

Sincerely,

cmb

Update: after analysis, I believe on the contrary that for writing on partition the XF is the best.

Thank you very much Dietz for taking the time to answer me.

I looked up what you gave me. I find out that you have to insert MIR only by panning, not by the usual method. I also see that it only works (here) by inserting a stereo instance of Synchon Player (if I insert the surround version there is incompatibility). Thirdly, I see that the Vienna Suite pro works on a 7.1 bus.

However, I have difficulty working in Cubase 12, for example (I also work in Pro Tools and Samplitude) and in the MIR window. As soon as I click on MIR, Cubase stops playing. So I can't do any placement in the room in real time. But maybe I'm forgetting something.

Anyway, thanks again. I hope the folks at Vienna will do a little more to communicate the surround techniques to know with their products. For example, for the video you gave me the link to, Vienna has blocked the automatic translation of the subtitles. It's hard for non-English speakers... but that's another story!

Translated with DeepL

I am set up in physical 7.1 (and soon 7.1.4) and am looking at what VSL offers in that direction. But I'm having a hard time understanding VSL's surround offering.

• The Synchon Player does 5.1, but, it seems, not 7.1. or 7.1.4 (the basis for Dolby Atmos), despite the fact that it claims to be "immersive". 
• Synchron instruments do surround, but not Synchron-ized instruments, which remain stereo (or else I don't understand)
• The Vienna Suite Pro does not go beyond 5.1. here, although it advertises 12.2. All examples in the manual or videos are also 5.1., not more. How to understand?
• MIR 3D talks about full 3D audio support for stereo and 5.1 configurations (so we understand that on a stereo or 5.1 basis we can go to 7.1 and more), but talks about specific manual presets.
• I'll have to look into this further, but: is it better to use for example the Synchon Player in 5.1 and end up with MIR 3D 7.1 or more? Are there any advantages? Or does a stereo instrumental source give the same result?

I wish VSL would open a surround support page to explain what they recommend as a surround workflow with their tools, and be much more specific about the functions of each. 

It's crazy, I'm trying to find the explanation of the difference between the presets: velocity, velXF, velXf sus for the synchon player, and I can't find it. Does anyone know where in the manuals it is?

I can't find the Vienna Synchon surround player in Pro Tools (but it is there in Cubase). Is this normal? Is it absolutely necessary to use VEP with Pro Tools ?

Hi Andi,

Another question on the Expressions maps point concerning Solo strings in Dorico (I'm still looking for my best possible configuration for my solo strings):

The Playback Model loads a basic version of the instruments. If I want to use the full version and so I load it, there is a mess in some articulations (the repeat samplings, for example, are called without being necessary). The user has to correct the expression map in this case, or am I wrong somewhere? Don't you have anything for the full versions of the instruments?

P.S. I just read elsewhere that this is not available. Too bad. Is it available for Cubase, though? No more. It is written :Expression maps for the full presets are not included. Such expression maps would have to be very extensive and would leave no space for notes in the Cubase Key Editor. 

Hello again Andi,

Things are going pretty well, but I notice that in the map expression of the second violin of the solo strings (and in the corresponding banks), there is no marcato attack. Disappointing. It is however there in the SE version for this same second solo violin.

I'll try to check it out myself and do a review of it all (on the basis that all the joints are present), as my preference is to just use VSL. I'll get back to you if I have any more difficulties.

You are a great help Andi, and I thank you. 

 p.s. And I just realized that I had volumes 1 and 2 +! All is well.

Hello again Andi. 

It's noted for VSL SYzd Voices - So, Al, Te, which you should name according to the next version, as well as the bass (+ baritone).  

For SYzd Solo Strings, I'll see what might be wrong here. No doubt you are right, you need the "artifical harmonics". Thank you.

For the clarinets, I need all the articulations. The "volume 1 +" adds: Portato, Performance repetitions legato, staccato, Fortepiano, Trills, half and whole tone, Fast repetitions, 150/170/190 BPM.

As for the incomplete Expression maps, it's a guess (and a question) based on what I saw (by mistake, then) of the Solo string and on what I had read on this forum (Dorico expression maps for VSL SYNCHRON-ized solo Strings full presets - Notation Programs & Vienna - FORUMS - Vienna Symphonic Library). Does the expression map SYzd SE include Volume 1 + joints, such as portato and Fp?

Thanks again Andi, your support is much appreciated!

(Don't forget that I write in French and that it is translated by Deepl)

Thank you Andi for your answer.

The problem is the following: I use a global model from another bank (I will explain why below in P.S.). When I go to choose manually an Expression map for my singers, there is only "SYzd Voices - So, Al, Te" and "SYzd Voices - bass".  In the global template option, there is the "SYzd Voices" template and everything is fine, but not in individual Expression map.

P.S. Why do I have to use another bank ? Because, despite my purchase of "SYzd solo string", the Expressions maps are not complete (while they are complete for the other bank, or at least more advanced - without the repeat patches though). This is very disappointing. Not even a programmed harmonics patch, according to my tests, which is not a very rare articulation! I prefer my VSL products, but I'm not sure I want to get into programming Expressions maps.

If I can get help with this, here is my nomenclature:

Mezzo-soprano (VSL SYzd)
Baritone (VSL SYzd )
Bass (VSL SYzd )

Clarinet siB (Other - I have the full VSL clarinet but VI, so no Expressions maps)
Bass clarinet (Other - this instrument is not offered individually in VI, and anyway no Expressions maps). Note: I have the SYzd SE Vol. 1, 2 and 4, but I would have to buy also the Vol 1 + at 265 Euro, which is getting expensive, especially if the Expressions maps are not complete). 

Piano (VSL SYzd)

Percussions (VSL SYzd SE) 

String quartet (Other)

Good evening,

I have to compose for 3 singers: mezzo-soprano, baritone and bass. I use, in Dorico 4, the VSL templates for the solo voices, but I can't find the mezzo-soprano and the baritone (but the bass, yes). What can I do? Should I make a new map myself from the existing ones?

Hello Bernd,

A huge thank you. I'll get started.

cmb

Thanks Paul, but can you give me the same thing for the Surround Synchron Piano? It doesn't match.

We have :

ROOM MIX
CONDENSER
RIBBON
TUBE
MID1
MID2
MAIN
MAIN-C
SURROUND
HIGH
HIGH-SUR

Hello Paul,

Thanks again for your answer. My question, more specifically, was: what is the purpose of several proximity microphones in the surround. The surround creates a room. If there were microphones in the room, I understand. If not, it's to place the listener in the piano... 

Again, it is by example that I could understand. If someone could explain to me in detail a 5.1 or 7.1 setup with a Synchron piano, that would help. Which mics for which channels. As I said, I know how to place the surround from a stereo instrument, but it's the logic of the Synchron piano surround version that I don't understand. That's why I'm asking you here. This is not a question about surround in general. For example, at another sample producer, the different microphones are positions in the room, side, balcony, back of the room, etc. I'm not saying it's better. I just want to understand the choice of VSL and the advantages you see in it.

P.S. I just used the new VSL celestial strings. They are simply amazing. It's a beautiful work. But they are not in surround sound, I think. Am I wrong?  

Originally Posted by: Paul

Hi, 

Thanks for the update. 

Maybe it was just the question about the routing options with surround instruments in the Synchron Player?

I have attached a screenshot... 

Best, 
Paul

Yes, I see. But I don't understand the link with surround, which is not a choice of proximity mics, but of positioning in a room. You would have to have right and left lateral, back of the room, etc. I imagine that in the VSL system, it is MIR that does this?

Hi Paul, thanks for your help (as always).

Yes,

My 5.1 outputs are configured, one output per Focal monitor (5 + sub), outputs 1 to 6 of my Prismsound Atlas.

I work with 3 DAWs. Samplitude, Cubase, Pro Tools (not HD though, so no surround here). The configuration for one will make me understand those of the others, as I know them well (a little less in surround, I admit).

It's the VSL Synchon surround player that I understand less.  If I right click on each microphone position, I don't have the option of the different channels for the different positions. Something must be missing. Or I'm making a mistake, which is very possible. Going to surround from stereo is easy. It's the surround configuration of the Synchron piano that is blocking me. 

I'll go look at your documents, but I've already been there. It's not that. I need a Cubase template with a Synchron piano and a surround session. Maybe a user here can help me (but maybe I'm asking too much). 

cm

 P.S. Ok, I made it in Cubase! Thanks Paul.

Paul : "The multi-miced Synchron products are great to use with immersive surround as well, and of course they also work in a 5.1 mix, with discrete channels. "

I am unable to configure this. Do you have an example or a procedure to follow? Let's say on Cubase.

I just updated the Vienna Assistant. The problems are starting!

1) It doesn't see my installed libraries and programs. So everything is not installed.

2) I have indicated my VST2 directory correctly.

3) I try to indicate the paths of the installed libraries with Add existing libraries. The Assistantdoesn't see anything. The message is: "there are no VSL files in this folder (yes, there are tons of them, my friend... ) or the folder is already in the database (thanks to the programmers for this "or" - the program should know...), but the database is empty and that's why everything is on not installed).

So, I don't work today, maybe not tomorrow, etc. It's not going well.

Does anyone know the background of this mystery of library locations and bad wizard ? 

P.S. Ok I think I understand that you have to reinstall everything since the switch to iLok. I thought the license transfer was enough. It's really a big job for the customer!

P.S. 2. I must admit here that the system works well, once understood (let's also admit that there is a lot of literature to read on the VSL site). So, you have to reinstall everything on all computers (only 2 in my case) and everything will be fine. The Assistant is therefore a good afterthought. This eLicencer, it has been hurting us a lot for years. I remember the complete freeze at Steinberg. It was terrible, no Cubase and Dorico, no VSL instruments, etc. Good riddance. iLok is obviously superior (so far.)

Originally Posted by: Bill

That's because the Pro player is not free.

You'll see that all the libraries are convertable

I bought it 11 years ago. I think you mean it's free now, so no need for a license. Is that right?

Originally Posted by: Bill

It's already available for iLok. Not likely to go VST3 though. You can host it in VE which is VST3.

Ok for VST3, even if it would be easier to have VST3 directly.

For iLok, not on my VSL. The status is:  

 not convertible to iLok

Hello,

I hope that VSL does not abandon VIENNA INSTRUMENTS PRO. I am not yet used to the Synchron player (except for pianos) and VIP has fantastic functions that are not found in Synchron. The customer has also invested a lot in VI with the purchase of instruments, which has contributed to the development of VSL.

So VIP has to go to VST3 and iLok. VST2 is no longer supported by Steinberg, as you know, and the eLicencer system is a horror (no instruments yet this morning..., you have to clean it often!, and it crashes DAWs). 

I hope it's in the plans. You can't abandon a flagship product like VIP.

Originally Posted by: Paul

Hi, 

Make sure you have installed the standard VE Pro Software on both computers (not the key-less demo!). 

Best, 
Paul

Thank you Paul, it just worked after 2 new installations. It would be nice if this information was clearly available on the vep support page (with a title like "One license for two master-slave computers"). The only indication is a note in small print.

Connection problem with a VE PRO 7 server on a second PC computer.

I seem to have read (and it's hard to find) that to connect as part of a DAW to VE PRO 7 on a second computer, a single license is enough, that of the server.

1) I have my VEP 7 server on PC 2 with its license. I first open the server.

2) I have my DAW on PC 1. I open the DAW and insert VEP input. No connection offered.

If I'm in Cubase, I also see Vienna Ensemble PRO. If I insert it, connection is possible, but with the DEMO indication. The VEP input then also shows the connection. So there seems to be another license on computer 1. However, I remember well using the same configuration on two old computers.

Thank you for helping me.

ps. I just found. So why is it not working. I have an eLicencer key on each computer. What permission is he talking about here?

* You need one Vienna Ensemble Pro 7 license per computer. For example, if you have two computers, one main and one secondary machine, you need just one license if you’re running one or more instances of Vienna Ensemble Pro 7 on your networked computer only. If you’re running one or more instances of Vienna Ensemble Pro on both your master and networked machines, you need two licenses. Also, each computer requires one ViennaKey for authorization.