Would it be in personal files? Because my user area shows no downloads there. And yes, actually I did end up going to the elicenser site and downloading the newest version of that. However, I do not see any downloads available in my user area, even though I registered my Special Edition back when I got it. Any help?

Colin Thomson

Yes, I installed the newest Syncrosoft updates. Are there VSL updates I need to install? Thanks.

OK, that is downloaded and installed. However, Logic still freezes when I open VSL inside it, and the standalone still says "No licenses installed." Thoughts on what I should try now? Thanks.

I just checked my in.app, which is Syncrosoft License Control 5.2.8.2, and it shows all the licenses as being there just as usual. Why would the standalone be saying there aren't any installed?

OK, I was able to find the place to download the VSL 2.0 update, but have not been able to find the archives for eLicenser updates. I know I, of course, had to download the syncrosoft license when I started using VSL, but I can't find that anywhere. I'm really not clear on how this license stuff works. Why would it be saying that no licenses are installed when they MUST have been installed before because I was able use it before?

Yes, it is plugged in, and I know that it is working because when I take the dongle out and try to open VSL standalone I get an error, but it is fine when the dongle is plugged in.

 

Is the eLicener thing a new thing that I need to download? I don't really remember what all was involved with initially setting up VSL, so perhaps my license needs to be renewed or something? Or maybe something happened and I need to uninstall and reinstall it?

 

Also, do you think that this is the reason it is not opening in Logic, or am I dealing with two different problems here? Thanks!

 

 

Colin

Hello everyone, I used to hang out here some, but it's been quite a while. I have the VSL Special Edition on an external WD 500GB HD, running in Logic Pro 7.2.3 (I know, waaaay out of date), running on a MacBook Pro OS: Tiger 10.4.11 (again, I live in the stone age) with 2 GB ram and 2.16 GHz core duo. When I try to open VSL in an Audio Instrument track, Logic completely freezes up.

What is really interesting to me about my situation is that I can open VSL in Standalone mode. However, when I do this it cannot find the directory of instrument on my external, and, when I click Preset Select, to the left it says "Vienna Instruments 1.11. Build date: Feb 13 2007 00:11. No licenses are installed" which is very odd because I definitely did install it at the time, it just randomly decided to stop working probably 2 months ago. Does this mean that perhaps the license got uninstalled somehow? Also, the VSL manager is all setup right as far as where it is looking for the samples. Any idea what I should do?

Again, I understand that my setup is very outdated, and I am looking into a bunch of upgrades, but I really need to get this to work as I actually have a little composition work coming in for the first time, and I need to churn out something quickly. My current VSL setup should do the job for what I need if I can get it to work. Any help would really be appreciated. Thanks!

Colin

By the way, I've enjoyed this discussion greatly. It really has been very educational. Thanks everyone!

Now a little disclaimer: No one needs to feel obligated to respond, as some seem to think I am wasting their time. If it is a waste of time, just skip over it. However, anyone who is interested in continuing, I have a couple more examples of Giacchino that I think would be interesting to know what you people think of. My first example was him writing in an oldies emotional style. The second was a much more modern approach. The reason I posted those two was because I felt it showed both the different styles he was capable of doing a good job on, and the way in which a modern sound can be utilized in a powerful and exciting way. This is where I think he does such a good job. He creates the style that the director wants, but he does it in a manner far above the normal film music output of that style. Compare my previous example #2 with Steve Jablonsky's Transformers, the definition of an 'epic' score on autopilot. Not to insult everyone's intelligence too much, but this is probably what the director wanted in the Cloverfield score.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6x9__W42Yc&feature=related

Tough material, but Giacchino found a way to make it good.

Just two more examples and then I'm out.

Giacchino's big band. Kind of James Bond but more cartoony style:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwqFg6GsGKY

Giacchino's emotional, sad, epic, very powerful style:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKa0oq6EvsQ

I think that even though each of the examples I have posted of Giacchino have been very different, his own voice shines through in a way that is missing in much of film music.

It has been kind of interesting being on this end of the conversation, as most of the time I am more on the side of what people would consider 'musical snobbery'. What is interesting is that my opinion on music really has changed. I used to consider film music to have sort of been a bad thing for classical music, cheapening the use of the orchestra into nothing more than an emotional push to back up onscreen action. But I have found that snobbery is far too lonely a life to lead. So, after working to become a musical 'snob', I actually then had to work at finding what people loved in popular music. It took a while, but it is nice now because when people talk about the music they love, I don't need to be constantly thinking 'well, that's great for you, but I know what good music really is'. I can just appreciate different types of music for what they are. I know it might sound odd for a 20 year-old to be talking about the evolution of his musical taste, but that is how it has gone for me so far. I still love the really great music, but I have worked to be able to appreciate the rest as well.

That being said, I am most certainly a Giacchino fanboy, and I have probably already made everyone here sick of him. Sorry about that, folks. Take care!

I wasn't comparing or saying that the greats of any age of film scoring stand up against the classical giants. Only using it as a way to explain what I find to be a common trend of thinking that what you grew up with was the best. There are plenty of people who would say that the pop music of the 50's was sooo much better than the junk that is made today. Well, of course it is better than a lot of what is made today. But there is also a lot of good stuff made today that would outshine the junk of that time. Basically, people remember the good of what is past and focus on the bad of what is present, because the good lasts, and time has not had the chance to sift through the junk of today yet

I would actually argue that I could have probably guessed that either of those were Giacchino. He has his own style, while being one of the most able to transform into the style needed I know of. I think, for me, it comes down to a very important question. Is music, or form, to blame? I happen to believe that good music can come out of about any musical form (including *gasp* rock and roll). Some forms seem to attract more talant than others, it is true. But the form is not alone what makes it good or bad. The second Giacchino example I offered is him writing in a style which is more 'easy listening' to modern ears. He has the full orchestral tutti hits which Zimmer is berated so frequently for his constant use of, but he uses them in a way which means so much more to me than the typical 'wall of sound' approach favored so often by MV composers. The orchestration is not complex (though surely as complex as Somewhere in Time, so that is not the issue). I believe, therefore, that Giacchino spent his time writing a couple melodies and rhythms that would work together, create a recognizable structure and 'sound', and succeeded wonderfully. But, of course, if the musical form is to blame, all of this is pointless and goes even further to prove my point about how people love what used to be.

So anyways, if the original point of this thread was to point out the idea that a team of composers instead of one is not a good direction, I fully agree. All I can say is, don't give up on film music yet.

BTW, I'm listening to 'Somewhere in Time' right now. Very possibly my favorite film score ever.

Thank you very much for those links, PaulR, I really enjoyed them. Brilliant.

And now may I present a little lesson in the joy to be found in modern film music, as some around here seem to be sadly under-educated in the area. I know this is tough, as I wouldn't say my examples are as good has Vertigo, for instance, because we sort of need the test of time to reveal that to us. But personally, I think they compete.

First of all, some of the best Giacchino has to offer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93jxkqG0gWc&feature=related

An amazing overture. Giacchino let lose:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xhIX4qr9JI

The problem with all this moaning about the lack of good music anymore is that it lacks historical context. It makes perfect sense to me that someone who discovers the emotional impact inherint in great film music for the first time would be very biased towards the pieces in which he first discovered them. Take for instance John Barry. Widely respected, he was certainly a genious (I think). But at the time, do you think he would have been respected by the people who had grown up on Rachmaninoff, Prokofiev, Stravinsky, Herrmann, Korngold? Where is all the genious counterpoint in Somewhere in Time? The fact is, he actually wrote in a much more easy listening style. One much more closely related to the popular music of the day. Very melody driven. Yet he did it in such an inspired way that it touched people who had an open mind toward all music, even if it didn't conform to the styles of older greats.

This is why I think that the young can often have a greater appreciation of all music. Seems to me that often the blueprint is to love the music you grow up on, later learn to love the music before your time, but never come around to the new music. And then, of course, the same thing is repeated with the next generation. This is obviously not without its exceptions, but I think it happens a lot. Most any art form at any time in history has people looking backwards wishing for the 'goold old times', and missing the good old times to be had now by the good music that is being created.

I am sure people wished Beethoven could have had the class of Mozart. People like liszt and Wagner were berated up and down by the critics of the day. Rachmaninoff was a romantic lost in the 1800's. Just remember, there is great music to be found, as there is also a lot of not great music to be found. Thus it ever was, thus it will be 'till the world's end. There is nothing new under the sun.

"You are absolutely right though about Somewhere In Time, which contains
the single best melody ever composed for any movie in the history of the world."

Couldn't agree with you more.

Heh. Ok, well, never mind than, PaulR. But to me, comparing Hans Zimmer and Michael Giacchino in the same breath is like comparing Michael Giacchino and John Barry in the same breath to you. But I guess if you consider the Lord of the Rings scores nothing more than a droning morass, there really isn't much common ground to talk about things.

BTW, I didn't say the new King Kong was any good; I haven't seen the movie. The music is good, though. But then, I seem to have a much more broad appreciation of junk than you.

Personally, I think you people are selling people like James Newton Howard a little short. I thought the score of the The Dark Knight was junk, too. But don't use this as your basis for what JNH can do. Most of the way through, it was basically a Zimmer sound, with JNH providing some Americana for Harvey Dent, but never getting much room to do anything interesting, as Zimmer was providing most of the music. I think we still get classic movie scores out of composers today. Whether or not we get them as often, I don't know, as I wasn't alive or paying attention during the time of the likes of Herrmann and other greats. The Lord of the Rings scores were only a few years ago, and they really were incredible. We haven't had anything on that level since (that I knwo of), but we have had some pretty darn good music written for movies.

I think that a composer that can work in the artistically stifling Hollywood industry, and still create good music, should be greatly respected. Take, for instance, the score of the new King Kong (which James Newton Howard wrote). While we film music buffs certainly would have liked more freedom from the composer, Howard was still able to create an emotionally moving piece of music. Perhaps others don't see it that way. Many seem to require lots of woodwind flourishes and boom-tzzz in their scores. But that, alone, does not a good score make. The reason that style is so loved is because there were brilliant composers working in it, making it artistically viable. Howard is able to work in the subdued (most of the time) style Peter Jackson obviously wanted, do it in a couple weeks time, and create a piece of music I really enjoy listening to. It has character, it has emotion, it has excitement. All done within some of the most constraining of circumstances.

Also, don't judge Giacchino based on Star Trek. He has also written some very exceptional scores recently. Similar to John Barry, he is a master of style. He has made some of the 'coolest' sounding movie music since Barry was writing his Bond scores.

In short, yes, there is plenty of junk to be found today, because many directors wouldn't know a good score if it slapped them in the face. But there are also some really great composers out there that can work in this enviroment and find a way to really create an emotional and enduring piece of music.

I haven't been using Leopard, but I thought it was 64 bit. I knew it had bugs, but I didn't realize that it actually wasn't 64 bit. What did I miss?

I just figured it was a problem on the keyboard end of things, and nothing to do with VSL. Sorry about the useless post.

Hello. I am having an odd problem right now. I am using a macbook pro, Logic pro 7, and have the standard Special Edition Vienna Instruments (I am not using ensemble). My problem is that when I load the Bosendorfer, I do not have any pedal. I can go into the VI window and click to manually change it, so that it says 'pedal down', but there is no difference.

I am sure you will need more info, but I am not sure what else to ell you, so feel free to ask.

Thanks in advance for the help.


Colin Thomson

Thanks very much for the advice, Beat. I will post again when I have a revised version for you to consider.

I changed the mix slightly on the last few seconds, and I think it is better now.


http://www.badongo.com/file/9005714

Solo cello (from SE standard) sustain crossfaded less than half with legato.

I would really appreciate some critique on a new piece I have done, and its mix. This is by far the biggest project I have done so far, and mixing everything together nicely was very hard for me. The piece has a large amount of reverb applied, and this is on purpose, though perhaps there is too much. Please comment, because I would really like to improve it.


Some people I would especially like advice from are: Guy Bacos ("Mourning" is probably my 2nd favorite VSL piece), Williams Kersten ("Prospice" is still my favorite VSL piece), Dietz Tinhof ("Prospice" mixer), Beat Kaufmann, Christof Unterberger, Hetoreyn, and anyone and everyone else, please, I need your help. Thanks!


http://www.badongo.com/file/8993794

I am trying to automate the release inside of Vienna Instruments, so this is what I am doing. I right click the release fader, and move the midi controller I want to control it. Then I check in Logic to see what number that midi controller is, and I go to Logic's matrix editor, and turn on hyperdraw, selecting the correct midi controller number. After entering in automation info, there is no change. So, during playback, I go into the Vienna Instrument window, and I can see the release fader moving with my automation data, but still no change on the release. I am confused. Any help? Thanks.

Just a little clarification. You get all the samples installed, but I think you get a number of loads before they stop working, instead of thirty days. This is all part of the VSL plan for world domination. This way you cannot help but become hooked on using the extended content, and then they cruelly take it away. I wasn't even going to use the extended content for the thirty days, because I didn't want to get used to something I couldn't keep. But, 1 year later, I still have all of the extended content. I guess I haven't loaded it enough for my trial period to be up.

I haven't had to freeze tracks yet, but I think I might need to on a few in order to get a clean bounce. Playback is not too bad, but whenever I bounce it I get some notes dropped. I haven't gotten to it yet, but I thinking freezing a few should take care of this. And you only really need to do it when you are ready for a final bounce. Oh, and I just checked, and it is 19 tracks, not 21. Of course, I am sure you could get a lot more by just freezing a few. Oh, and by the way, the Special Edition seems like one of the best bang-for-buck products on the sample market. Congratulations, and have fun with it!

I don't ever remember seeing such a thread. But it would certainly be awesome if it were around and someone found it.

I have a MacBook Pro that is about 1 year old, and has 2 gb ram and a 2.16 duo core processor. I have the standard library Special Edition, and while I would certainly love to have more ram, I have been able to make what I have work. The VSL learn and optimize function is awesome, and I use it constantly. Of course, more ram would speed up my workflow, but I wanted you to know that I have been able to make it work with only 2 gb of ram. The most I have done is about 21 audio instrument tracks in Logic Pro, and while it is not flawless and there are some pops and click and core audio overload messeges, I am making it work for me. So I would think 8 gb should be more than ample. Of course, I don't have any experience using more than 2.