FORUMS - Vienna Symphonic Library

1.VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1 10/25/2022 6:07:51 PM

Originally Posted by: Louis C

..... that's great news that it's 'imminent'.

I wonder what performance gains might be expected ?

I wouldn't go that far. It seemed 'imminent' a year ago when I bought my M1. I'm sticking with 'eventually'. My official guess is Q1 2023

2.VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1 10/19/2022 5:30:27 PM

Originally Posted by: bdr

I came across this today and remembered where I first saw it...

https://github.com/DigiDNA/Silicon

Oh, cool. Thanks for that!

3.VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1 10/16/2022 7:44:44 PM

Originally Posted by: manu_28410

… Same here.

It really doesn't look good now — Cf. linked image — for a high-priced products company.

The demo I've been running lately on my brand new Mac Studio clearly presents pops and glitches when I run even a small session. Compare to other software and libs, that's awkward; but maybe not… if you add Rosetta to the equation.

Now every time I want to buy a VSL product, I'm very hesitant: for instance, I could be on the verge of jumping for MIR … but… Will I regret putting an extra 1K in this company in 6 months?

What generated this list of what plugins are running AS native, or not, in your system?

4.VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1 9/28/2022 7:59:04 PM

Originally Posted by: rockdude9k

PS: for what its worth, I've been running VEP through Rosetta in Cubase on a Mac Studio M1 Max since June and it's been mostly stable as long as I don't go below 512 buffer size. If I go below that VEP starts to crash and act up. I'm very much looking forward to a native version so I can drop my buffer size, but otherwise it's been very stable

Ditto here with DP11. Stable with Rosetta. But it is getting old staying at 512, as is a lot of other aspects of running DP in Rosetta....for better or worse I've actually grown used to playing with a 512 buffer over the years.

5.VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1 8/31/2022 6:15:02 PM

Originally Posted by: daviddln

Originally Posted by: Dan Wool

I'm not optimistic VEP will become native anytime soon.

Why? Both Paul and Ben said they were working on it. Since MIR Pro 3D is out and the transition to iLok is complete, the can fully focus on that.

Good point. Call it professional pessimism on my part. I couldn't guess how long a transition like this might take, but having those two items completed should speed things up.

6.VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1 8/30/2022 7:40:57 PM

Originally Posted by: Guy CT

Originally Posted by: Davka

Any news? M1 support

It is taking a very long time... Digital Performer 11 (Universal) was released over a year ago but I can't use it because VEPro 7 MAS is unusable with Rosetta 2 and DP11. So I'm stuck with Digital Performer 10 under Rosetta 2, which only just works and crashes a few times each day.

I'm finding Rosetta 2 stable with stereo projects in DP. It's getting very old having to switch back and forth between native and Rosetta simply to accommodated projects with VEP, but it's working here. It's off-topic for this thread, but you might try posting on motunation.com re this, if you haven't already. I'm not optimistic VEP will become native anytime soon.

7.VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1 6/29/2022 9:11:04 PM

DP needs to run in Rosetta mode to work with VEP currently. The MAS VEP plugin doesn't work if DP is running natively.

8.VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1 6/29/2022 6:42:27 PM

Thanks for the response. Even periodic no-update updates reiterating that M1 compatibility is a priority for VSL are reassuring.

9.VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1 5/10/2022 7:19:07 PM

VEP does seem to be brining up the rear among developers in the transition to M1 at this point. Everything in my system apart from VEP is running M1 native now. It's been a while since VSL has chimed in on this thread. An update would be appreciated - even a reaffirmation of VEP's priority would be good to hear.

Re "We need the VEP VST3 plugin first and foremost converted to Apple Silicon"

I'm a MAS user so it would be my priority, but I agree. If it's possible to make the VEP plugins M1 native ahead of the server (which seems okay running in Rosetta), that would make life better.

10.VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1 4/18/2022 6:13:11 PM

VEP running in Rosetta seems a bit faster on my M1 Max than it did on my MacPro. And, yes. The server runs on an M1.

11.VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1 4/18/2022 4:07:07 AM

Originally Posted by: Adia

Hello, I am just changing my Mac to M1 Mac.

I read the thread but please explain me, what is not compatible now? I am using VEP7 on a PC connected to my DAW Mac. Will I be able to use my templates on LOGIC with AU3 and AU2 VEP7 plugin?

Logic will be fine. Unless you're a DP user everything is working via Rosetta. Only DP's MAS version of the VEP plugin isn't compatible.

12.VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1 4/7/2022 7:02:21 PM

Originally Posted by: evang42

To be clear, DP11 itself is fully AS native, but as you point out VEP MAS won't work in Rosetta. I actually spoke to someone at MOTU about this and they said that Rosetta could only translate AU plugins (and not MAS) so unfortunately it's up to VSL to go AS native and deliver a MAS version to get this working again and it seems there's nothing more MOTU can do.

Okay. Not great news, but this kind of clarity is useful.

I know developers rarely divulge timelines, but it sure would be nice to get a general sense of how long it will be until there's a UB VE-Pro and MAS plugin (weeks? months? years?) - I need to restart several huge projects from 2019 that rely on VEP with MAS. Converting them to AU will be a time-consuming pain.

13.VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1 3/26/2022 11:25:38 PM

...along these lines, I'm reading that MacOS 12.3 seems to have fixed a lot of plugins that weren't working in Monterey. I'm holding back updating for a couple of reasons, but I'm curious if, by some miracle, the update makes the MAS plugin usable on M1 Macs.

14.VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1 3/25/2022 7:06:05 PM

Originally Posted by: santamorphic

I'm assuming VEP7 would stay on Rosetta and VEP8 would be the software to make native. Seems like a heck of a lot of work to have to do it fro VEP7 when VEP8 is probably on the horizon. It would also be a little nudge to encourage an upgrade :-)

We’ll, I sure don’t like this idea. I’d like it better if VEP worked with Rosetta for me, but it does not. The MAS version of the plugin doesn’t work under Rosetta. If they updated the MAS plugin to work with Rosetta I’d be okay waiting a bit for the privilege of paying for a UB compatible upgrade.

15.VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1 3/24/2022 7:52:08 PM

Originally Posted by: fatis12_24918

...and now iLok is done... hopefully beside debugging it (just last little inconsistencies, the overall job was quite brilliant, well done VSL) a VEP7 universal macOS will be released...

I reckon it could be awhile still. Creating a UB version of VEP must be a lot more complex than creating one for an audio plugin....many of which are still in development almost 18 months after the arrival of M1

16.VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1 3/20/2022 7:10:53 AM

Originally Posted by: dmansfield

This problem exists in DP with any VI. For example, we tested it with a basic MoTU VI, in the actual sequence on the host computer (no VEPro, Bidule, etc.), and it is still a problem. Take the VI out, and record into a MIDI track that's not connected to anything, and MIDI is recorded correctly, regardless of buffer setting. By the way, I can set Pro Tools up with the same parameters and it does not exhibit this problem. All modern DAWs compute where to record the MIDI note regardless of buffer size, latency, etc..

Finally, this problem does not exist with AMD PCs or M1 Macs. You can record MIDI with a VI and a 1048 buffer on a M1 MacBook Pro and the MIDI notes will be recorded exactly as you played them. Matt Batson and I did a lot of testing on this, and the engineers confirmed it.

Now I see. Hence, you're hoping for an AS native version of VE Pro ASAP, so you can make the switch to an M1 Mac. As I mentioned the AU version of VEP works fine with DP. I haven't investigated, but presumably it wouldn't have the timing bug. It's cumbersome, and not nearly as convenient as the MAS version but it might work as a stopgap for you, so you could get going on an M1 Mac, until there's a native MAS VEP.

17.VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1 3/19/2022 10:24:32 PM

Got it. What you describe is what I always assumed. Yeah, I guess other DAWs would need to have implemented time-travel to eliminate live buffer latency!

So higher buffers causing "negative-delay" in DP is the operative here. That is new info for me. By keeping my buffers at 512 I guess I've never noticed the discrepancy - mainly, probably because I'm not much of a player. At 512 that negative-lag is the least of my problems.

But is this a VEP issue, evang42? Or do all VI exhibit this in DP?

18.VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1 3/19/2022 8:40:53 PM

Originally Posted by: evang42

WOW. mind absolutely BLOWN. Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention. This has long plagued me too!! But I had no idea until 20mins ago that this was an actual bug effecting only DP users. I incorrectly thought this was just the very nature of latency and buffer settings etc and all DAWs experienced this. Just confirmed with Logic and Cubase using friends that those DAWs will compensate for higher buffers when live recording MIDI. DP needs to fix this RIGHT AWAY. I'm going to ping the hell out of this to the dev team. Thanks again for bringing to my attention!

Wait, what? I've used DP exclusively for composing with MIDI for years. Are you saying other DAWs have found a way to eliminate buffer latency when recording MIDI (IOW the interval between the time a key/pad is pressed and the VI sounds)? If so, I missed a memo, because it was not always so. Back in the oughts, when I used Logic, latency was definitely a thing.

19.VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1 3/19/2022 7:53:49 PM

Originally Posted by: dmansfield

+1. I am waiting for this to transition to M1, especially urgent because my DAW is DP11 and there is a MIDI timing bug with DP11 on older Intel machines, so until I switch I'm using annoying workarounds :(

Working under Rosetta 2 sounds too dicey, though if any of you have had good experiences, please post.

No ETA yet??

I think it's been stated elsewhere that M1 support would come sometime this year.

Have you tried the AU version of VEP with DP? As you may know there is no Rosetta version of the VEP MAS plugin, but the Rosetta 2 version of the AU seems fine here. However, I've never tried to record MIDI at buffers hight than 512. It's hard to imagine attempting a performance with 1048ms latency - I don't think many users do, so fixing it may not be a priority for MOTU

I've checked out the MOTUnation thread, to be clear here, you've found this issue to be VEP MAS on Intel specific, correct?

20.MISSION COMPLETED: Moving from eLicenser to iLok 3/12/2022 8:53:56 PM

Originally Posted by: Dan Wool

Originally Posted by: Ashermusic

I am not looking to be critical, but both e-licenser and iLok have been around a very long time, so I am surprised that transitioning from using one copy protection scheme to the other is such a big deal. But admittedly, I have no real knowledge as to what is involved.

Although someone earlier in this thread said otherwise, it seems logical to me that VSL would wait for iLok to be M1 native, which is yet to happen, before transitioning.

FWIW, PACE announced M1 compatibility for iLok yesterday. So if that was an impediment for developers transitioning to M1, we should see more UB versions of plugins soon...and perhaps iLok for VSL

21.MISSION COMPLETED: Moving from eLicenser to iLok 2/25/2022 6:37:07 PM

Originally Posted by: Ashermusic

Originally Posted by: Dan Wool

Originally Posted by: Ashermusic

I am not looking to be critical, but both e-licenser and iLok have been around a very long time, so I am surprised that transitioning from using one copy protection scheme to the other is such a big deal. But admittedly, I have no real knowledge as to what is involved.

Although someone earlier in this thread said otherwise, it seems logical to me that VSL would wait for iLok to be M1 native, which is yet to happen, before transitioning.

But it works with Rosetta 2.

Not so for the MAS version of VE Pro unfortunately.

Re iLok. I don't know if/how this would make a diff, but Liquidsonics and others were already iLok apps, whereas VSL is making a transition from e-licensor.

22.MISSION COMPLETED: Moving from eLicenser to iLok 2/21/2022 10:22:12 PM

Originally Posted by: Ashermusic

I am not looking to be critical, but both e-licenser and iLok have been around a very long time, so I am surprised that transitioning from using one copy protection scheme to the other is such a big deal. But admittedly, I have no real knowledge as to what is involved.

Although someone earlier in this thread said otherwise, it seems logical to me that VSL would wait for iLok to be M1 native, which is yet to happen, before transitioning.

23.MISSION COMPLETED: Moving from eLicenser to iLok 2/6/2022 12:42:36 AM

I think we can assume the transition to iLok will take place sometime after iLok is running native on Apple Silicon. I'm keeping an eye out for PACE to announce M1 compatibility before I begin clamoring in earnest for eLicensor-to-iLok timeline info.

24.VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1 2/1/2022 10:18:06 PM

Originally Posted by: J.H.

...So now I'm scrambling to find a new (old) computer, or start migrating away from VSL instruments so I can have a stable environment during live shows.

A wise move. If VSL is waiting for PACE to update iLok to UB, I can't see how an AS compatible VE Pro will be out anytime soon (Fall m'be? I'd love to be wrong). PACE, understandably, is going to be extremely thorough. I've started creating all new templates without VEP-for-MAS, with the very cumbersome AU version, because I need to move on with my life. ...no doubt as soon as I'm finished Vienna will release the AS MAS version :)

25.VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1 1/24/2022 8:26:44 PM

Originally Posted by: Paul

Hi,

Our transition to iLok is still our #1 priority, but native Silicon support is high on the to-do list after this. Thanks for your patience!

Best,
Paul

As a way of managing expectations: Would we be correct in assuming this transition will take place after iLok can run natively on M1? A lot of developers seem to be in this position.

Thank you

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