Originally Posted by: JBuck

So why provide the link?.

To make sure the credit goes to the right people.

If you want to work in stereo only, you'll mainly benefit from the new preset system, improved usability, and of course compatibility with new operating systems, CPUs, and GPUs. If you're working in surround, the sonic advantage will be enormous. If you're working in 3D, then there's no comparison anyway.

Originally Posted by: JBuck

I searched the link you provided but came up with nought.

Well, that's probably because this proprietary development is on the cutting edge of technology. :-) Examples will be published once MIR 3D is ready for release.

Thanks for your patience!

Originally Posted by: JBuck

How is the decorrelation of the original signals actually improved by the new engine?

By an sophisticated procedure developed for VSL by the ingenious minds of the Institute of Electronic Music and Acoustics (IEM) at the University of Graz, raising the original 1st order Ambisonics IRs to Higher Order Ambisonics (HOA) up to 7th Order, if I remember correctly. However, we stick to 3rd order because otherwise the sheer amount of convolutions would overwhelm even the most powerful modern CPUs with only a few instruments. 8-)

Sorry to hear that you're facing problems. Please get in contact with , VSL's support team will take care for the issue ASAP. Please make sure to supply as many technical details as possible.

Kind regards,

Right now, this is only possibly by means of a little trick: Use MIR Pro in its plug-in version directly in your DAW for the one, and hosted by VE Pro for the other Venue. The latter is especially handy if you plan to use one instance as some kind of "AUX-send/wet only" effect, because it keeps the CPU load caused by the VE Pro's "Audio In" low.

Another tried-and-tested (but admittedly less practical) workaround is to freeze or bounce certain tracks using one Venue and switch to a second one for other signals.

***

Sidenote: The upcoming MIR 3D will allow for "tabbed" setups, i.e. multiple Venues at the same time (see preliminary screenshot below)

No need to put shame on anyone. ;-) As a matter of fact we spent countless hours to make sure that existing MIR Pro setups will load without additional user interaction, while sounding as close to the original mix as possible (usually within a +/- 1 dB). All that without sacrificing any of the new possibilities.

If you need bit-identical recalls you can always re-install the (then) legacy version of MIR Pro.

Yes, actually it should be that simple. :-) 

Huh! My answer from hours ago disappeared, it seems. 8-0

I'll write it again: Please use you host's built-in plug-in preset management for individual Icon settings. Just be aware that he first instance of MIR Pro defines the output format (e.g. surround).

For managing plain Venue settings (without any instruments assigned, that is) you can also use MIR Pro's own file management to save and recall "MIR Engine Projects". That's available for MIR's "File > ..." pull-down menu in its main GUI.

HTH,

Hi Spike,

thanks for your friendly message!

Rest assured that we have pondered _many_ ideas in this regard over the years, but in the end there was neither enough time nor enough interest to actually look for a solution. MIR's "players" will stay on their seats, for the time being. ;-)

Enjoy MIR Pro!

Kind regards,

What looks easy at a first glance is a daunting scenario when you look at it from a technical perspective: Remember, MIR is not your standard algorithmic reverb. ;-)

The moment you drop a MIR Icon on a certain position of a Venue's stage, the engine choses the closest set of raw Ambisonics impulse responses, takes into account the directivity patterns of the instrument Profile, the Icon's width and rotation, and creates a unique set of individual IRs according to the chosen output format and the assigned RoomEQ. _This_ result is passed to the convolution engine were the actual room signal is calculated.

As soon as you change _any_ of these parameters, MIR has to re-calculate all aspects. This happens amazingly fast thanks to some clever optimizations, but it is not real-time. There can be no continuous movements without interruptions, so the engine does not allow automation of these settings.

... we thought this was a reasonable limitation, considering that musicians tend to stay in their seats during a typical orchestral performance ;-D.  If you really, really need changes of a source's position then please use a General Purpose profile, set the width to the desired value and use one of the countless tools that allow for panning automation _before_ the signal enters MIR Pro.

HTH,

Thanks for the friendly words, @Yulokchan.

Originally Posted by: yulokchan

[...] would love to have a Decca tree setup since it's a pretty much one of the standards for capturing performance on stage. [...]

I understand that request, but MIR wouldn't work the way it does if it would rely on non-coincident microphone arrays. You can get close by using Secondary Mics for additional (and de-decorrelated) acoustic enveloping, though.

I have no idea about the finer details of VSL's marketing, sorry. I'm a sound guy ... ;-)

Seems as you might be overcomplicating things a bit. ;-)

Compressor pre-MIR: Use this to even-out any unwanted weaknesses or rogue-notes of the actual performance, and/or to add a certain flavour of distortion to the input signal.

Compressor post-MIR: Use this to "glue" dry and wet signal components (... just be aware that the perceived "wetness" will increase, in most cases), and/or to add a certain flavour of distortion to the output signal.

Used properly a stereo-compressor will neither destroy the stereo balance of a signal nor its phase. A mono compressor on a mono input won't do any harm either as long as the input is properly fed to both sides of MIR's stereo processing.

HTH,

Originally Posted by: Amit Katzengold

Will Room Packs bought for MIR PRO be available in MIR3D as well?

All existing RoomPacks have been reworked for MIR 3D. MIR Pro RoomPacks won't do, as they neither support Higher Order Ambisonics nor the three-dimensional Venue Maps.

As far as I know there will be very friendly upgrade paths for MIR Pro Venue licenses you already own.  :-)

Sounds like a plan! Don't miss out on the best part, however. MIR's ability of of positioning individual signals in space is really astonishing :-) .

Enjoy MIR Pro!

You're welcome!

The following screenshot is an example for the "misuse" ;-) of MIR Pro as a more conventional reverb engine in an AUX-send-oriented mixing scenario. My setup is based on the MIRx preset for Teldex Berlin and uses the three "General Purpose Ensembles" in global wet-only mode.

The idea is to have a MIR Pro plug-in in each of three stereo AUX-busses of the DAW (doesn't have to be VE Pro, necessarily). You will send AUXes from your individual signal tracks to these busses, according to the depth you want achieve. Of course you will have to take care for all panning-related tasks yourself (also in the AUX sends!) as MIR has no way to do this in a setup like that.

... that way your source signals will remain untouched altogether, which might be necessary under certain circumstances. I wouldn't buy MIR Pro for _only_ that kind of setup, though. 8-) 

(I inadvertently deleted a carefully worded reply instead of sending it *grrrrr*, so I have to write it again - might happen that it's at least less long-winded now. *sigh*)

Originally Posted by: yulokchan

[...] if I am not working in a nice place, I tend to get as much isolation as possible, and then add digital reverb afterward.

... judging from your description, MIR Pro seems to be exactly what you need. :-)

You can process and/or preprocess all signals according to your habits and needs (and of course your time budget ;-D). MIR is completely transparent in this respect. However, users of this software report unanimously that they need less processing of the individual sources as well as the resulting mix. 

Apart from all panning-, positioning- and stereo width handling the path for the dry signal is completely transparent, as long as you don't ask MIR to do differently. The relation between dry ("spot mic") and wet ("main mic array(s)") is completely up to you - although MIR is able to take care for quite a few aspects automatically, if you want, like distance-dependent scaling of the dry signal's volume, or distance dependent filtering ("Air Absorption").

A few things  to keep in mind:

- MIR's ability to make an input signal interact with the surrounding room relies a lot on the so-called Instrument Profiles. The Profiles we created for Vienna Instruments are highly specific. For the most predictable results with 3rd-party signals (i.e. your recordings! ;-) ...) it's best practice to use the so-called "General Purpose" profiles. (... their names like Omni or Cardioid are about the way the source emanates sound into the room, not about microphones). 

- In the same vein it will make little sense to use our Character settings with 3rd party signals, as they consist of hand-crafted pre-EQ settings for each and every Vienna Instrument. Keep it at "Pure" for a fully transparent signal path.

... MIR "thinks" like a sound engineer ("Tonmeister", as we say in Vienna). No hidden traps, no snake-oil. ;-)

I want to emphasize again that MIR should normally _not_ be set up in a group or AUX send scheme! It is possible from a technical point of view, but it must be considered as off-label use ;-) - As I wrote in my first answer: MIR Pro is meant to be used as an insert in the mixer track of a single source - either in VE Pro or in your DAW. Since all remnants of the original direct signal components of the IRs have been removed in the implementation of MIR's Venues, there will be no phasing whatsoever when the required amount of the ready dry signal is mixed in.

... please don't take this as "RTFM", but there are a few sections in MIR Pro's Manual that might help, e.g.:

-> https://www.vsl.info/en/manuals/mir-pro/think-mir

-> https://www.vsl.info/en/manuals/mir-pro/creating-new-project

HTH,

Welcome, and thanks for your interest in MIR Pro!

Originally Posted by: 170958

Hi, I'm completely new to this concept and was wondering if MIR can serve the purpose of helping me create like a 'ambience/room mic' in a live session and have it blended in the mix for the room tone.

... if "room tone" is your word for the ambience created by the reflections of a room and the resulting reverb, then the answer is "yes". ... "RoomTone" is a feature of MIR Pro that allows for mixing in recordings of the natural noise floor of the otherwise completely silent Venue. ;-)

The dry input signal is encoded to Ambisonics by MIR Pro and virtually put on the same position as the emanated impulse response. The decoding follows the same parameters as the ones used for the wet signal then, while the ratio between wet and dry is fully controllable. - Look at it as the ideal spot mic on a stage, while the wet signal comes from the main mic array. 

Portions of the readily positioned dry signal should always be included in the mix, as the IRs used for MIR Pro's Venues have been edited to be "wet only" for technical reasons. - MIR is able to take care for the distance-dependent scaling of that dry/wet ratio, if you want.

The "Secondary Mic" in MIR Pro is meant to allow for more enveloping, "de-correlated" reverb, but the handling of the direct signals is done by the Main Mic only. 

Due to the principle explained above there won't be any phasing when mixing in the dry signal as long as it is processed by MIR Pro, too. MIR Pro is meant to be used as an insert on individual signals, not as an AUX-send reverb. 

There is no run-time delay you have to take care for manually. The latency of your audio system and MIR's convolution engine should be compensated automatically by all modern DAWs.

Due to the fact that MIR relies an Ambisonics throughout its whole signal path all the achievable mic setups are coincident setups (or combinations of them). You can control the polar patterns and the angles of up to 8 virtual capsules, but only in the XY-plane*). The height of out microphones in the recorded Venues was between 2.5 and 3 meters in more or less all cases, so this should meet your expectations. 

*) ... this will change with the upcoming MIR 3D. ;-)

I would start with the default settings (or maybe re-call one of the so-called "MIRx Presets" I created for all Vienna Instruments) as starting point and adjust things by ear. While MIR Pro "thinks" much like an audio engineer, many users approach it more from an conductor's point-of-view, which is a perfectly valid way to look at it, too.

For "pop/hybrid scoring" music it's always a good idea to lean a bit more towards the dry signal (30/70), while the default "50/50"-settings will work nicely for classical orchestral arrangements. The "Global Dry/Wet Offset" in the Output Panel is a quick way to find out your preferences for the mix at hand.

... don't hesitate to ask if there are open question!

Hi Paolo,

I'm sure you've already seen the little tutorial in MIR Pro's Manual about the different approaches using MIRacle (or any algorithmic reverb you prefer to use):

-> https://www.vsl.info/en/manuals/mir-pro/addons#using-miracle

All the best,

You're welcome! Yes, these presets were created for both available orientations of SSV in MIR Pro, if I remember correctly.

The actual settings will always depend on the actual mix of a specific piece of music. Don't take my presets as "the" final solution, they are an "educated guess" of possibly useful starting points. Ultimately, you will always need to fine tune the parameters by ear.

Best,

Sorry, this must have happened in a moment of inadvertence. Obviously I started to create these settings on the basis of presets I made for MIR Pro's Teldex Venue. If this is a problem for some reason, please just replace the name in the description field (you can simply type into it) and re-save the preset as a user setting,

I created the setting as starting point for all microphones available for MIR Pro's Synchron Stage Venue. I assume that its Width could be reduced a bit in case of SSV "Wide", though. Trust your ears! :-)

Kind regards,

Then I don't know why an upgrade to Cubase 11 could possibly affect the display of MIR Pro, sorry to say so.

Any chance to try a screen with a different pixel resolution for MIR's main GUI?

Hi there! You come over from VI Control, don't you? :-) Welcome! ... although it's always a good idea to write to for quick replies - the forum is a user-driven platform, mostly. 

Does it help when you change Cubase's DPI settings? The screenshot below is from Nuendo, but it should be similar in Cubase:

As mentioned in my answers above: Once you use MIR Pro in its plug-in version, there is no immediate way to separate dry from wet signals, unless you print two passes, one with "Dry Solo", the second with "Wet Solo" set in the output window.

HTH,

Originally Posted by: gcorcella

Thank you for your reply, Dietz :)

You're welcome!

Well - you might be counter-acting volume settings you plan to do (or already did) in MIR. However: As long as you are perfectly aware of _what_ you're doing, you will be fine either way. :-)

Great to hear that you like MIRx! :-)

There's no definitive answer to your question, though. The default values you recall with MIRx is already what I thought to be meaningful starting points, individually set and carefully adjusted for each and every instrument, in relation to all others the chosen MIRx Venue. But of course the "ideal" reverb balance depends a lot on your music, the arrangements, the style and last not least your taste and habits.

The good news is that you can easily adjust the suggested balance, at every stage of your work.You can also synchronize these adjustments across all VI-instances. 

HTH,