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1.Libraries used on "20 Years VSL Anniversary"? 3/22/2023 9:21:58 AM

Hi Robert,

I totally agree!

Considering that this is a MIR demo piece, it's pretty safe to say that Guy used Vienna Instruments libraries exclusively - perhaps in the form of Synchron-ized instruments. But we'll ask the man himself, that's better than just guessing. 8-)

Stay tuned!

2.bug: [hi prio] MIR Pro 3D 7.0.999 stalls Cubase prj load 3/21/2023 8:53:41 PM

No need to apologize. :-) We are happy to read feedback here, but even I don't watch the forum constantly. Writing to support is safest and usually yields the fastest results.

Kind regards,

3.bug: [hi prio] MIR Pro 3D 7.0.999 stalls Cubase prj load 3/21/2023 8:27:25 PM

Hi,

I informed VSL support of the issue.

Note: It's aways a good idea to get in contact with directly in cases like this. The forum is meant as a platform for user interaction. It's not VSL's official support channel.

See also this Welcome message. :-)

Kind regards,

4.MIR PRO 3D and VI instruments 3/21/2023 12:16:24 PM

Hi Cyril,

I know, that language barrier is difficult to overcome, but I have a really hard time to understand what you're actually asking for.

Quote:
Please explain in more detail: Are you using Synchron Libraries or Synchron-ized Vienna Instruments?

Before the roles where re-loaded it was sounding great compare to Synchron, very clear 

I have no idea what you are comparing because still don't understand what you're actually doing. Are you trying to apply Roles that were created for Vienna Instruments (and consequently Synchron-IZED libraries in Synchron Player")? This won't give you the intended result.

Quote:
Where do the Roles you're loading come from?

Synchron Stage a Wide

That takes me by surprise, because the settings you show in your screen-shot don't look remotely like the Role presets I created for that Venue.

Quote:
What's your host, what are you trying to achieve,

Mac

Well - that's a computer brand, but judging from your signature you're a Logic user. Is this DAW also to host for MIR 3D, or are you using VE Pro for hosting it?

Quote:
The woodwinds and the winds are covered by the Brass if you use the volume defined in the Role

The Natural Volume setting are meant to be seen as a starting point only. They only make sense when they are applied to all Icons in a VI-only arrangement (... no 3rd-party sound sources). Please make sure that you don't double these settings inadvertently, e.g. by using your host's volume faders.

Quote:
Also it looks like there is a placement problem if you use Synchron Stage a Wide, winds and strings are mainly stuck on the center

Do you have a picture of the ideal placement of the instruments when you use Synchron Stage a Wide.

Yes, there are screenshots for all Venue Presets. They are derived from legacy MIR Pro's "MIRx" settings and should look similar to the pictures shown in the MIRx manual:

-> https://www.vsl.info/en/manuals/vienna-instruments-mirx/venue-details/synchron-stage-vienna#sy-stage-wide

Quote:
The placement of the choir is in front of the winds, very strange !!!

Well, that decision has been made when the orchestra seating for Synchron Instruments was defined. Not much I can do about it in a preset collection that's meant to match these settings as closely as possible. But the nice thing about MIR is that you can put the respective Icons anywhere you want to hear them play yourself. :-)

Hope that helps,

5.I'm having a hard time understanding VSL's surround offering. 3/21/2023 8:28:43 AM

Originally Posted by: CLAUDE MARC BOURGET Go to Quoted Post
[...] For example, for the video you gave me the link to, Vienna has blocked the automatic translation of the subtitles. It's hard for non-English speakers... [...]

As a follow up to this remark I'm happy to tell you that VSL's anchor man, Paul Kopf, has already added this feature to the tutorials mentioned above. :-) Please check them out again.

Kind regards,

6.Bug: Mir Pro Automation windows moves futher left every time on [F3] 3/20/2023 8:18:47 PM
Thanks for reporting. We are actually talking about a Vienna Ensemble Pro related issue, aren't we? MIR 3D has no mixer window that opens with F3.
I'll make VSL's developers aware of the issue.
Kind regards,
7.MIR PRO 3D and VI instruments 3/20/2023 9:30:46 AM

Hi Cyril,

"being disappointed" isn't good, but as a description for a technical issue it's a bit vague. Please explain in more detail: Are you using Synchron Libraries or Synchron-ized Vienna Instruments? Where do the Roles you're loading come from? What's your host, what are you trying to achieve, what are the reproduction steps, and most of all: What is it that is disappointing you?

Thanks in advance.

Kind regards,

8.I'm having a hard time understanding VSL's surround offering. 3/20/2023 12:50:24 AM

Originally Posted by: CLAUDE MARC BOURGET Go to Quoted Post
Thank you very much Dietz for taking the time to answer me.

You're welcome!

Quote:
I looked up what you gave me. I find out that you have to insert MIR only by panning, not by the usual method.

That's the only way to have Cubase/Nuendo convert a mono or stereo source to a multi-channel track without re-creating each and every track manually. The latter would be Steinberg's "official" way to do it. IOW: That's a Cubase/Nuendo issue, not something that's strange with MIR 3D specifically.

If you don't like the "panning device" approach or work in stereo only, you can use MIR 3D in the conventional track insert slots too, of course. (Other DAWs like ProTools or Logic allow for switching channel counts by inserting a plug-in, so the issue is non-existent in these hosts.)

Quote:
I also see that it only works (here) by inserting a stereo instance of Synchon Player (if I insert the surround version there is incompatibility).

If you encounter compatibility issues please get in contact with ASAP. I can't help in that matter.

Quote:
Thirdly, I see that the Vienna Suite pro works on a 7.1 bus.

All typical surround and 3D formats should work, actually.

Quote:
However, I have difficulty working in Cubase 12, for example (I also work in Pro Tools and Samplitude) and in the MIR window. As soon as I click on MIR, Cubase stops playing. So I can't do any placement in the room in real time. But maybe I'm forgetting something.

I'm pretty sure that you have activated Cubase's option to release the audio driver when the app isn't in the focus of the OS:



Quote:
Anyway, thanks again. I hope the folks at Vienna will do a little more to communicate the surround techniques to know with their products. For example, for the video you gave me the link to, Vienna has blocked the automatic translation of the subtitles. It's hard for non-English speakers... but that's another story!

I assume that there was a good reason for doing so, but I'll forward your request internally just to make sure that this wasn't just an oversight.

Kind regards,

9.I'm having a hard time understanding VSL's surround offering. 3/19/2023 6:40:26 PM

Examples for MIR 3D routing in 3D in several popular DAWs here:

-> https://www.vsl.info/en/tutorials/guides/mir-pro-3d-exploration-pack

Surround- and 3D capabilities of Vienna Suite Pro are totally dependant on your host. In Nuendo/Cubase and ProTools it's sufficient to open an instance in a track with the desired channel-count. (... see first screen-shot below).

Synchron-ized libraries are stereo only, much like the Vienna Instruments libraries they are derived from. They are meant to be used with MIR 3D for surround- and 3D-formats, bypassing the internal positioning and reverberation tools of the Synchron Player.

Synchron Library specifics are not my forte, but the way _I_ do 3D routing for Synchron Instruments is shown in the second screen-shot for a 5.1.4 setup: I actually use direct outs (just have to make sure to activate enough stereo outputs) and use the hosts panning capabilities for the actual 3D routing. ... this might not be the official way, though. :-)

HTH,

10.MIR 3D Exploration Pack: Tutorial projects for your DAW! 3/17/2023 4:29:12 PM

Dear all,

there's a little-known gem hidden in the vast collection of VSL's tutorials, called

The MIR 3D Exploration Pack.

It consists of ready-to-use, fully set-up and mixed MIR sessions for several major DAWs, namely Cubase/Nuendo, Logic Pro, ProTools and Reaper, complete with audio files and instructions. Topics such as 3D routing and binauralisation approaches are also covered. And of course it works with demo versions of all relevant products, too, so you can get your feet wet before actually entering the world of MIR 3D. :-)

Enjoy!

11.Basic mixing in MIR 3/10/2023 4:40:26 PM

Hi Jacob,

VE Pro is compatible with most typical surround- and 3D-formats, and in principle it's fully up to the task from a purely technical POV.

But as much as I would like to recommend it for the setup you have in mind - I can't. VE Pro is a great solution for hosting virtual instruments outside the actual DAW, but in this scenario all audio is created within VE Pro and not routed to it from the outside. While you can of course send plain audio to VE Pro, too, this was meant be seen as a solution to combine a handful of audio track with Vienna Instruments put into MIR Pro.

Like I just wrote in another recent thread: According to VSL's developers, the "Audio Input" feature of Vienna Ensemble Pro has to be considered "experimental". Modern operating systems as well as the plug-in hosts of today aren't very fond of code that opens "side doors", so to speak. (It's actually quite astonishing that this works at all.) The feature comes with huge latencies, and you will also see that VE Pro's Audio Inputs will tax the CPU considerably. 

In other words: VE Pro is not meant to be seen as virtual rack for send-FX. Instead, I suggest to optimise a few parameters to allow for more instances of MIR 3D:

- System latency (the higher, the better)

- MIR buffers (again - the higher, the better) - see MIR 3D's Preferences

- Some DAWs (e.g. Cubase/Nuendo) offer additional buffers for pre-rendering FX in the background ("ASIO Guard")

- Activate MIR 3D's Preference for "Dynamic Processing" and make sure that MIR isn't kept "active" by very quiet noise ("analog" processing, dither, etc.).

- Omit the LFE channel from MIR-based mixes. This avoids unnecessary convolutions (MIR's impulse responses themselves won't produce audio below 50 Hz anyway, only the direct signal).

- Use "Ensembles" (i.e. submixes) ofsimilar sources to feed one instance of MIR instead of many individual ones.

- If you are working on finishing a mix: Freezing / rendering-in-place of already set-up tracks will help, too.

HTH,

12.Cubase Mixdown not including VEP-based effects 3/9/2023 10:36:02 AM

PS: Of course this is a non-issue in case of VE Pro's actual task, i.e. running virtual instruments controlled by MIDI input. In that scenario off-line processing will work like a charm. :-)

13.Cubase Mixdown not including VEP-based effects 3/9/2023 10:34:14 AM

Hi again,

according to VSL's developers, the "Audio Input" feature of Vienna Ensemble Pro has to be considered "experimental". Modern operating systems as well as the plug-in hosts of today (and even more so - Cubase, specifically) aren't very fond of code that opens "side doors", so to speak. It's actually quite astonishing that this works at all ... 8-) ... consequently, you will also see that Audio Inputs will tax the CPU considerably.

Running these "hacks" off-line is even more demanding, it seems, so real-time operation seems to be indeed the "official" way to go in case you use Audio Inputs of VE Pro. 

Sorry to have no better news for you.

Kind regards,

14.Basic mixing in MIR 3/8/2023 9:17:33 AM

It's a mixer, to a certain extent, but it's not a monitoring device. 

MIR is a quite deep and complex product as it is already. We have tried to leave out features that might come handy on certain occasions, but would actually just double the amenities offered by the typical host.

Enjoy MIR 3D! :-)

15.Basic mixing in MIR 3/7/2023 10:33:48 PM

Welcome Jacob,

Personally I do this in the Control Room panel of Nuendo, most if the time. If your host doesn't offer similar features then there are also a lot of freeware plug-ins which allow for soloing / muting individual channels of a track, e.g. Melda Production's MChannelMatrix.

HTH,

16.MIR PRO 24 keeps crashing. 3/7/2023 8:33:48 AM

Hi Michael,

sorry to hear that you're facing problems, but I'm sure that they can get sorted out quickly.

Please get in contact with ASAP, including all system-relevant details, ideally the system report created by the Vienna Assistant app. It might be important to point out that you're using "legacy" MIR Pro 24.

VSL's support team will take care for the issue.

Thanks for your patience & kind regards,

17.Help a beginner with Mir Pro 3d 3/6/2023 11:43:26 AM

Originally Posted by: Cyril Blanc Go to Quoted Post
I am waiting for and answer from support on how to change venue to test the deferent venues.

Doesn't the Venue Selection in MIR 3D's main GUI work for you? (.... #7 in this screenshot). This should open the Venue Selection window (see this screenshot in the manual).

Quote:
Correct me if I am wrong, if you change a setting in Mir, it is send back to Logic !

Well - actually MIR is always working _within_ the host. The small plug-in you put in the track is doing all the processing tasks. It's just that all plug-ins share a common main GUI, but that's completely independent from the host. In any case - MIR "knows" nothing about other plug-ins in Logic's channel.

Quote:
One las question, for a drum what preset will you use ?  "99 MIR Unprocessed"

If I intend to put it into MIR, then the answer is "yes".

Quote:
If you publish a single on iTunes are they trick, do you have to go by a Music publishing company ?

Sorry - that's not my area of expertise. Thanks for your understanding!

Kind regards,

18.Help a beginner with Mir Pro 3d 3/6/2023 10:13:45 AM

Originally Posted by: Cyril Blanc Go to Quoted Post
[...]I don't understand your answer, Logic store all the instrument characteristic and send them to MIR when you load your song ; MIR send them back to Logic if you adjust there characteristic in MIR, why can't you send the "role" of the instrument when you fill the venue for the first time.

In Logic (and every other conventional host) here is no data connection between Vienna Instruments and MIR 3D other than the audio stream. No way to make MIR aware of the meta-data that would make the "guessing" of the profile possible. VE Pro _has_ this additional connection, though.

Quote:
I like very much the Synchron user interface, this is why I bought them.

Is MIR overriding Synchron instrument setup If you disable there reverb ?

I have understand the Synchron instruments uses VI sample, am I  wrong ? and it is why that the upgrade was very reasonable.

Synchron Instruments rely on samples recorded directly at Synchron Stage Vienna, using multiple microphones in different distances, with "burnt-in" panning and reverb), while the so-called Synchron-IZED Instruments use samples originally recorded at Silent Stage for Vienna Instrument plus individual, hand-crafted impulse responses and panning information for them.

There are dedicated Mixer Presets for them in Synchron Player called "99 MIR Unprocessed" which brings Synchron-ized instruments back to their original, unprocessed state. Use _this_ setting when you plan to put a Synchron-ized source into MIR 3D.

.... here's a comparison of all VSL sample-based products:

-> https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Products

HTH,

19.Cubase Mixdown not including VEP-based effects 3/5/2023 8:21:20 PM

Welcome Michael,

sorry to hear that you're facing problems. I'm sure that VSL developers will come up with a solution quickly. In the meantime, try to bounce your mix in realtime, not offline. This work-around is an old Cubase/Nuendo-trick to avoid problems like yours.

It will also help to get in contact with directly. The forum is not the primary support channel for VSL.

Kind regards,

20.Help a beginner with Mir Pro 3d 3/4/2023 9:29:57 PM

You like to keep us busy over the weekends, don't you? ;-)

Originally Posted by: Cyril Blanc Go to Quoted Post
Since I have discover that with instruments in Logic you have not the problem of Logic using one or two core if you use VI and synchron instrument and that VE is causing more load on the CPU ; I have decide to use VSL instrument IN Logic.

It will be great if you could add the "Guess" function when using MIR PRO 3D instruments in Logic..

That would be great, yes. As soon as Apple allows VSL to implement the code in Logic that allows MIR 3D to "talk" directly with Vienna Instruments plug-ins in the same track we will be able to do this. ... I wouldn't hold my breath, though. 

Quote:
If there are no profile for Synchron and BBO instruments in MIR PRO it show that the policy of VSL is not to use those instruments in MIR PRO ; if it is the case nobody will want to buy the Synchron and BBO instrument

Today I have bought a lot of them and I feel that "I have been taken for a ride"

It's not a "policy". Vienna Instruments and Synchron Instruments rely on very different approaches. Allow me to bring in a comparison: The former can be seen as a collection of finest raw cooking ingredients which will enable the cook to create great dishes according to his/her own taste and needs. The latter is a luxury chef's menu you can buy ready-made - you just have to put it in the oven. 

In other words: Synchron instrument's paradigm baked-in panning and reverb does not match the approach of MIR, which was invented to cover exactly these aspects. 

If you think that you bought the wrong product please get in contact with . Quoting the FAQ: 

Unlike many other sample library developers, we offer a "No Hassle" return policy.

  • If you're not satisfied with your purchase at the VSL web shop, for any reason, you may return it for a refund or an in-house credit, within 14 days from the day of purchase.
  • Please get in touch with our sales team, we will walk you through the process.

Quote:
I am using a lot of Synchron and a few BBO instrument in those two song, do I have to remove them and use only VI instruments ?

No, just don't put them into MIR.

Quote:
It will be a good idea to add them if you want to sell more Synchron and BBO instrument ?

Like I wrote above - they are different product lines with different use cases.

Quote:
Concerning 3)

PS: In a similar vein, this article from summer 2020 covers MIR Pro and its use in pandemic times, too:

-> From Abbey Road to MIR Pro

it is not -> https://youtu.be/jFhZcvGXdDU

See in :  https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t57116-Alan-Meyerson-on-mixing-the-orchestral-score-of--Mank--in-MIR-Pro#post301226

Let me google that for you: 

-> https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Vienna_Software_Package/MIR_Pro_3D#!MIR_Stories

Quote:
In https://youtu.be/jFhZcvGXdDU the sound is terrible for non English mother tongue when Alan Meyerson is speaking (If you read the comments on that page I am not the only one to complain !)

Hey, Alan is a sound engineer - his mic is _supposed_ to sound bad. ;-D Maybe we should ask him to talk more slowly next time. 

Quote:
Concerning 7)

Is there is a tutorial about Mixing with MIR PRO 3D ?

There are several videos available on MIR 3D's sub-page of VSL's web-site, and of course there's always MIR 3D's online manual (... the manual of legacy MIR Pro has a nice tutorial-section, too).

Hope that helps.

21.Very Long Loading time with Logic and MIR PRO 3 D 3/4/2023 3:31:47 PM

Interesting, thanks. 

Does this mean that we can mark the issue as "solved" now?

Kind regards,

22.Beginners help needed with MIR Pro 3D 3/4/2023 2:39:04 PM

Originally Posted by: Oceanview Go to Quoted Post
I wonder whether it might be helpful to make that point in the product description?

You mean, something like "Objects in mirror are closer than they appear" ...? ;-D  ... but joking aside - please tell us what you would expect to read there. VSL will look into any meaningful suggestion with gratitude.

Quote:
One compositional observation I could make is that such a long reverb poses some interesting challenges and opportunities for the type of music one makes to work with it.
 

Exactly. There's a reason why "sacral music" is considered to be a style of its own ...

Quote:
In the longer term I will need to figure out if it is possible to generate any surround-sound (such as binaural) mixes with MIRPro3D if the audio is being exported from Sibelius.

Andreas Olszewski is our local scoring app guru, but I seem to remember that Sibelius support only stereo output. You might need an additional host like VE Pro or a full-fledged DAW for this task.

23.Help a beginner with Mir Pro 3d 3/4/2023 2:26:27 PM

Hello Cyril,

Originally Posted by: Cyril Blanc Go to Quoted Post

Hello

1) I could not find the "guess" function that is in MIR PRO ; it's a long work to set all VSL instrument

Please see the attached screenshot where to find the "Guess"-function. Note that this is a feature that will work within Vienna Ensemble / Pro exclusively.

Quote:
2) Can you please add Big Band instrument in the instrument profile

Interesting idea, but due to the fact that Vienna Symphonic Library has yet to transform into Vienna Bigband Library ;-), I assume that this won't happen in the foreseeable future. 

Quote:
3) In the Allan Meyerson post it refers to :

-> From Abbey Road to MIR Pro

The link is not correct

I think that's the one you're looking for:

-> https://youtu.be/jFhZcvGXdDU

Quote:
4) Do you have to ban Synchron Stage instrument in your Venue ?

I beg your pardon ...? 8-/ Sorry, but I don't understand the question.

Quote:
5) Do have to EQ each instrument or do you take the setting in the "Role" ?

Roles can include Character EQs, but they don't have to. In fact all factory presets a.k.a. "Vienna Standards" (a.k.a. "MIRx Settings") there is a suggested Character EQ for the respective Venue Preset it comes with. OTOH you can save your own custom-designed Roles without Character EQs. 

If you plan to add your own EQ settings I suggest not to use Characters, to avoid over-processing.

Quote:
6) Do you have to review the setting of the "role" when you have multiple track of an instrument ?

Again - I'm not sure that I understand the question, sorry. Please rephrase ...

Quote:
7) For the moment in the two mixes I am working on is a big mess ; when I have multiple instrument playing you cannot distinguish what instrument is playing, what is the solution ?

Hard to judge from the distance, without any audio examples. Might be a question of composition, arrangement, programming / performance or mixing. Or are you talking about GUI-handling rather than the resulting audio output ....?

Kind regards,

24.Beginners help needed with MIR Pro 3D 3/4/2023 12:09:30 PM

That's good to hear !

Originally Posted by: Oceanview Go to Quoted Post
(the 9-10 second reverb length is wild!).

Yes, they are. Andone of the reasons why I didn't create "Standard Roles" for this beautiful space, simply because it's soooo non-standard ... :-)

Enjoy MIR 3D!

25.Beginners help needed with MIR Pro 3D 3/3/2023 11:22:09 AM

Hi,

Not all Venues come with "Role"-presets for Vienna Instruments / Synchron-ized Instruments. In quite a few cases size and nature of a room defy its use for standard orchestra seating - as great as they might sound. 

But apart from that you should be able to load you new Venues from MIR 3D's Venue Selection dialog at t the bottom of the Venue Map. If you don't see all your licensed Venues in this browser then there either went something wrong with the installation (downloading alone is not enough!) or the license transfer.

HTH,

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