If the update was ever listed in the user area then I probably did install it and never knew

So the "updated" Giga version offers all the dynamic layering with performance sets? Man that would be great.

I realized with UTTER HORROR that the Giga format of the Pro Edition Performance Set (yeah yeah, we know it's old) does NOT offer the dynamic layers control (via modwheel) that the EXS one does. OUCH.

Simple question: Is there some way for the owner of a Giga version to get/download the EXS version...in 2014? C'mon guys, you must have the files still lying around somewhere.

I feel like I've been penalized for putting my money on the wrong horse--Tascam Giga vs Apple EXS :(

Does my early-adopter status to VSL count for anything? I sure hope so.

Thanks.

Well after much experimenting and a great deal of help from some smart guys over at logicprohelp.com I've managed to get Logic talking to G-Player, but the Mac VSL perf tool does not, will not and apparently cannot communicate with either.

While "to_vsl_tool 1" and "to_vsl_tool 2" etc show up in Logic as usable outputs, there is NO signal being received--and if there is, certainly none is finding its way out, even in thru mode across the board. G-player offers "from_vsl_tool 1" etc, so it sees the perf tool, but I've not yet seen a single MIDI message make its way from the perf tool to g-player, which tells me its not the MIDI setup, it's the tool.

Consider that I went as far as setting up a completely new, separate IAC Bus in the OS X audio/MIDI control panel for Logic (which is how I got g-player to finally respond) but the perf tool didn't recognize anything coming via this. I tried sending MIDI both from Logic and a keyboard. Nada.

This is disappointing. I have a very expensive sound library that I bought for gigastudio--which went under, not my fault--and so I'm left trying to make the perf tool work in a Mac environment with 3rd party apps.

Let me ask a more basic question: Has this Mac Perf Tool actually ever been tested with Logic? If yes, the destination player would have had to have been a standalone app, like G-Player (otherwise how else could it have been successfully tested, right? I don't see how Logic's EXS player + Perf Tool would work). Therefore, who did this test before the Mac perf tool was released and, if yes, did they write down how they got it to work?

Otherwise if the Mac Perf Tool was never tested in a Logic environment, and I'm the first twerp to try this, then my report is: Fail.

Thanks for the excellent info.

***To other users in the same boat, see Marnix's activation link above! This may be all you need to run the perf tool on a Mac using G-player in Logic.

Thanks for the EXS conversions--so some of these are new/renamed from the original Pro Edition version?

Now, sorry if I seem scrambled myself but I need to clarify what the real obstacle is here:

1. Obviously one can't just load up a PERF patch from Pro Edition in Logic's EXS sampler (or via G-Player plugin) and expect it to work because Logic and EXS/G-Player don't have the actual Performance Tool functionality (of figuring out legato/repetition/alternation during playback). Correct?
2. Therefore, a Performance Tool needs to be loaded (somehow, either standalone alongside Logic...or as a plugin?) so that either EXS-format or G-Player Giga format PERF libraries can be properly interpreted. Correct?
3. But, what I'm seeing in this "Mac version 2.0" of the Performance Tool is that one needs an XSKey to run it...but XSKeys didn't exist when I bought the Pro Edition so does that mean I can never use this Mac Perf Tool unless I re-buy the entire VSL library in its newest version? Crazy.

Please advise as I need to understand this, and what my actual options are.

(The only remaining option I can envision is to run the original Performance Tool in CrossOver on the Mac, and run that in Windows emulation alongside Logic in OS X...hoping that it doesn't crash the system. Not a great solution.)

OK, I must not be understanding something: This looks like exactly what I was asking about in my other forum post. For an owner of the original Pro Edition for Gigastudio, this too lcan be used to interface between a host application (like Logic?) and the perf tool, correct?

So I'm not sure what this XSKey thing is or how/why I would have one as the owner of a much older library (pre-dongle).

Please advise as I've been searching for a solution for some time. Thanks.

I'm late to this too :)

Actually, I've successfully loaded ALL VSL libraries (of the ones I've tested, that is) directly into EXS as-is, but my issue is in being able to use the "Mac performance tool"...which should be all I need, correct?

Otherwise, what steps must I take to have working versions of VSL libraries in Logic? Buy the whole library all over again? There must be a more cost-effective solution...

I think I'm in the same boat: I had purchased the full VSL Pro Edition years ago, which I used on a Windows system, but want to start using it on a Mac using Logic 8.

While I've managed to load libraries individually (I also discovered the G-player plugin...another option) there's obviously no way to use the Windows performance tool on a Mac.

So uhm....what do I need to get all this working with a Mac perf tool?

Thanks.

Emlyn

I think I might (unfortunately) already know the answer to this question but I'm going to ask it anyway :)

I bought the original Pro Edition for Gigastudio (R.I.P.) years ago and have been using it on a PC ever since. But I've finally gone Mac and recently my friend "gave" me his old Logic 8 to test my VSL (yes, yes, I know...licenses are non-transferrable blah blah) but I don't see any "built in" VSL PT in the EXS24 window.

Am I missing something?

So I downloaded the Mac PT from this site thinking I still had to install it and of course the first thing it does is ask for an XSKey...which I'm positive won't be legit since it's not my Logic 8.

So I guess I have to buy Logic 8 or 9 to see if my $6,000 VSL library works like I want it to? Is that it?

I had the exact same question and just asked the folks at G-Player a few minutes ago. The answer:

There is no built in performance tool but you can still use the VSL
performance tool with G-Player. The VSL performance tool is a standalone

application that processes the MIDI notes and send the MIDI results to a

player such as Gigastudio or G-Player.

So it looks like G-Player is very much an answer to GS users' woes. Additionally, they said that the standalone version of G-Player can be used on an x64 PC (and not just Macs) which means it can theoretically take advantage of up to 128Gb of RAM. You'd need to have an ASIO-enabled sound card for that.

So G-Player it is...for now. Not bad for $149: http://www.soundlib.com/gplayer/

Emlyn

Actually, I didn't know about this. And I'm really glad because since my VSL purchase I've moved most of my work flow to OS X.

Thanks for the heads-up.

I guess that's just it: The Pro Edition could only ever become a legacy product by virtue of its design. ie: By marrying the sample library to a single engine, it could never be improved. In order to take advantage of a new, smarter engine, the user would have to re-purchase the entire library of samples (essentially, let's be honest) all over again.

For a $6,000 product this is a surprisingly short-sighted approach, and you can see why users like me might see this as unfair "double-dipping".

Of course I understand that there's more to this system than just samples + performance engine, but I look at VSL's new offerings and think to myself, Why would I buy the same sample set just to use elements of their VI technology? Shouldn't my $6,000 investment include some means of benefitting from product improvements that use the same source materials...that I already own?

I know nothing of Halion, Kontakt, ESX, Mac, or any other formats (or XSkeys or format converters); I just know that I have a brilliant, expensive sample library whose host application just got killed and--more importantly--whose true potential seems needlessly confined by the technology it was shipped with.

Maybe I should have just waited for the P2P networks to fill up with bootlegs of VSL's initial offerings, and then spent my money on the real thing (VI) when they had finally figured out their product. Hmm!

Emlyn

I don't doubt for an instant that VI rocks. But are the instrument samples in VI not largely the same material that came with the Pro Edition years ago (and all the subsequent Horizon/Opus/whatever sets)?

My point is that I've already bought the library of samples! If VSL has since then come up with a more ingenious way of using those samples, then I'm all ears, but don't make us buy the whole !&*#$ orchestral library every time you have a eureka! moment. That just feels like double-dipping, not innovation. 

 Yes, my GS3 version still works, but I'm appalled that I can't simply use those samples with a more intelligent architecture like VI. I know there are obviously format/architecture differences since the original Pro Edition version, but this was hella expensive when I bought it; we invested in VSL and we'd like a little sugar in return.

Honestly, this is like selling us a car, changing the gasoline, and then asking us to buy a new car to use it.

Emlyn

I must say, I do have to agree with the essence of what chris_3594 is saying: In the early days of VSL, users like us wanted to believe that a system like this could work, and were willing to spend $6,000 to see it happen. We liked everything that VSL stood for--intelligence, community, artistry--and we put our money where our mouths were. It's terrifically disappointing to see that VSL would essentially leave us out in the cold with the discontinuation of GS. 

It should be clear to VSL by now that most users simply can't afford to upgrade every time VSL revises the architecture of their products (which is surprisingly frequent, given the breadth and depth of this software) and that what they bought 5 years ago would be more than just a piece of clever coding, but an ongoing relationship with VSL for their compositional tools.

We were the VSL evangelists, so let's all start acting like it.

Of course, it's not the fault of VSL that Tascam killed GS, but with the kind of monetary investment that VSL users must undertake, "upgrade paths" just don't cut it. After all, we're talking about a comprehensive sample modeling system here, not a loop CD. Our investment must be respected.

My proposed solutions?

1. Offer those original GS users an alternate format of the product they originally bought. Halion, Kontakt, ESX... I know nothing of these formats or of their host applications, but at least those users will be in a position to keep using their library in a format that hasn't been killed. (Don't want to go to the expense of pressing new DVDs of old software? Then make it a series of downloadable torrents. We have the technology.)

2. Offer those original GS users a means to convert their libraries to a usable/universal format. I know this isn't a very realistic scenario, but an unusable $6,000 sample library wasn't a realistic scenario either, yet here we are faced with it.

3. Offer a substantially more lenient upgrade path for original GS users. Trust me, I'm not paying another $6,000 (let alone $15,000) for what is evidently no longer a sure bet. We invested in VSL, and I think VSL could stand to invest in its users.

We scratch your back, you scratch ours.

Emlyn

Every day is an adventure. Recent discoveries that other Pro Edition users should know and learn, and come to love as their own:

1. Ghost notes do indeed need to be held over their target note in order to work. Well, uhh....this is not evident in any of the manuals I've read--it just says "...struck before...".

2. It seemed as though the threshold and release time settings didn't go below 1 (using the slider)...until I highlighted one of the boxes with the mouse and made it a 0. WOW! Now suddenly all those one-after-another notes are playing!!

I'm really quite mystified as to why the PT is so finicky. NOBODY else has encountered this?? Goodness.

3. Well, well, well, what have we here: By overlapping the durations of all notes for instruments that use the legato style, I'm suddenly getting a lot better legato. OK, did I miss this in the manual? Seriously, I hope this info isn't reserved only for folks who fork over $$ for the video tutorial!!

Funny thing is, I used to do this overlapping thing with my old MIDI instruments to improve legato feel...but I didn't think the VSL goliath would call for such a, er...nuts-and-bolts technique.

Anyway, this came in REALLY handy for the flautando/ppp string legato lines.


Other than that it's all beginning to sound good. Oh and please forgive the tone of some of these entries...I've just been a little annoyed at some of the more arcane instructions in the manual. Maybe it's the translation.

OK, thanks for all the replies. I'm using v2.1.1 on XP.

I have no problem dragging the window around--my problem is seeing what's IN the window. I'll need to check the fonts because that might actually be a solution to the window display issue.

DG: I have tried triggering a ghost note in every octave below the instrument's range. I'm using legato mode only.

>>> Should I be holding the ghost note over the start of the next note? Could it be this simple! I'll try that right now.

The VSL perf tool is a "Gigastudio topic"? OK.

From one issue to another...

I'm using the VSL Perf Tool, GS3 and Cubase on one PC. I have the Pro Edition.

#1

I have the perf tool doing its thing in legato mode now, but none of the ghost, release, or repetition triggers are working. Am I doing something wrong? I've tried all transpositions with no success at all.

Is the ghost note supposed to be held over the attack of the note it is intended to silence? Do the release/repetition triggers work the same way?

Befuzzled...


#2

This one is not good: It seems like any note that follows another of the same pitch on one MIDI track is silent if there is no space between them! I have tweaked and tweaked and tweaked the legato threshold and release time settings and nothing seems to stop this from happening. Really strange if it's supposed to be played back as a legato line, no? Do I have something set incorrectly?

#3

Probably worst of all: my whole performance tool screen is "squashed" into the window with many of the functions pushed off the side of the window so that I can't set anything. This is especially true for the repetition and alternation modes--almost the entire matrix is hidden from view! Do I need to reinstall this? I believe that it is the most up-to-date version.


So far, not much luck using the performance tool! Heeelp!

Maybe others will encounter a similar issue as I have had, so I'm posting the latest discoveries:

The startup order of programs in not NECESSARILY set in stone. My setup ONLY works with this startup order: Perf Tool -> GS3 -> Cubase

Additionally, MIDI input is only received by GS3 on PORT 2. Don't ask me why.

I also don't think that any changes to the registry midi, mixer, wave settings has any effect in this case.

...at least, partially solved.

Paul suggested loading instruments into GS PORT 2 (instead of PORT 1) and then setting the PT to GIGAOUT 2. For some reason this works and don't ask me why PORT 1 doesn't respond.

I did follow one suggestion to remove duplicate MIDI entries in the windows registry but I can't yet determine if this had anything to do with it (as GS PORT 1 was still not responding).

Hopefully this answer helps others who encounter a similar problem with the sequencer + perf tool + Gigastudio setup on 1 PC.

Thanks to all who helped.

It was already working with Cubase via rewire. I see no need to reinstall it just yet!

Ugh. Nope.

What I AM getting is MIDI arriving at the PT--I set it to alternation mode like you said and it's switching back and forth like it should.

I started by opening the PT, then Cubase, and then I opened up GS3, loaded up a PERF patch in CH1...and nothing happens. (FYI: When I launch Cubase it is still telling me that GIGA3 OUTS are not found)

I've checked the obvious stuff: mixer channels/levels, tried a different VSL PERF patch, tried just playing the keyboard in GS3 (which doesn't always work anyway) and I get NO SOUND.

Please note: When Cubase was hooked up to GS3 via rewire (before I ever tried using the VSL PT), I had PORTS 1-2-3-4 showing up in GS3 (along the bottom) as light green/dark green boxes, and the little keyboard icon beside that (in GS3) was blinking "GSIF mode". Now I only have PORT 1 as a dark green box, and no blinking "GSIF mode". Could this be why GS3 is not receiving any MIDI?

Hmmmmmmm.

I really appreciate all your help--following the manual has not solved this problem.

Nothing, nada, zip, and zilch.

I even uninstalled/reinstalled the vslmidirouter, which at least kicked the PT out of "THRU MODE", but I'm still not getting any playback whatsoever (not even bad playback).

I followed David's instructions and shut off rewire in GS3...but then kirkreid says to ENABLE rewire in Cubase! Why?? I thought rewire was supposed to be totally turned OFF when using the VSL PT?

Also: Since having turned off rewire in Cubase (before doing these most recent steps) when I DO try to enable rewire in Cubase it now comes up with "Can not use Giga3. Close Giga3 and try again."

Gee, folks, I'm pretty experienced with MIDI and this has my brain in knots.

Any advice? Anyone??

Oh dear oh dear................

1. I've turned off all inputs in GS.

2. (I think) I've turned off all rewire from Cubase, although every time I re-open the score file it still asks about GIGA device inputs.

3. I begin the process of launching Cubase, then Perf Tool, but as soon as the perf tool loads it says "The device is already in use. Wait and try again." I didn't get this before (and this is now with GS inputs turned OFF). Perf tool now shows "THRU MODE".

4. Launch GS then load up VI14_perf_leg.gig (or whatever) and try playing...obviously nothing because the perf tool isn't hooked up.

OK, so first question: what are the MIDI OUTS in cubase supposed to be set to? My normal GigaOUT: PORT 1/CONTROL, or VSL MIDI Router OUT 1?? Seems like Cubase is stealing the device MIDI from the perf tool.

OK, thanks Paul & cm.

(I didn't use the support email because usually when I contact a company via email I just get a useless form reply from someone who doesn't know anything--but maybe I should give VSL more credit than that!)

1. Yes, I'm running everything on 1 PC

2. Yes, I can turn off rewire from Cubase, but I guess I still need to know what to set the Cubase track MIDI ins/outs to--keep this as GIGA 1, 2, etc.?

3. Yes, I have installed the VSL MIDIrouter, which seems to have correctly updated the available choices in the perf tool.

I will still need to use separate MIDI tracks for one instrument to take advantage of different articulations? I'm assuming that program changes within one MIDI track aren't fast enough? (Wow, no wonder VSL released VI...but I don't have another $6,000 lying around!)

Paul, would you prefer that I continue this via email? I thought I was going to be able to figure out the perf tool setup on my own, but maybe not...

I'll start by turning off rewire.

Thanks again for your help & advice.