Hi Gang,

I've sent a message to support but still haven't heard back, and (of course) I'm on a crushing deadline. So if anyone here can help with my problem it would be much appreciated.

The license for VE Pro just vanished from my key. No explanation - it just wasn't there anymore. I suspect it actually happened a while back and that I've been unknowingly using demo activations. (I get occasional error messages when opening VE Pro and I've learned to ignore them and re-open.)

I suspect VSL is going to have to give me new licenses, as I haven't found a way to reactivate them. But I thought I'd take a stab here.

Thanks!

Thanks, Jim! I've been waiting for that reply before upgrading to Snow Leopard. Any other peculiarities I should be aware of?

Didn't get an answer to my earlier post, so I thought I'd try again. Can anyone tell me if the performance tool still works in Logic 9/Snow Leopard if running in 32 bit mode?

Thanks!

Tried some more troubleshooting and discovered that the VSL updates require the latest eLicenser updates as well. Problem solved. Nothing to see here. Move along. :-)

I just downloaded and updated VE Pro and now I'm getting an error message saying the server can't find a valid license. Anyone else experience this. Any suggestions?

I've noticed in the sample listings for DVD collections, performance legatos are listed in the "Perf Intervals" heading, while in the Special Editions articulations are simply listed as "legato". Are legatos in the Special Edition instruments performance legatos?

So, does the performance tool still work using Snow Leopard and the latest version of Logic in 32 bit mode?

Don't know about a fresh install (mine was an upgrade), but my preliminary tests indeed show that the performance tool problem is solved with 9.01. Some of the EXS performance patches I'd previously opened in Logic 9 were corrupt (displaying the same symptoms as the original bug.) But so far I've been able to repair them, save the changes, and all appears to work afterwards. Here's a hearty thank you to the parties responsible for the fix. (Apple, I presume.)

So much for my paranoia. But - that still doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

Thanks, Jim. I'll be able sleep tonight.

Does anyone have any new information on this problem? I'm getting a sinking feeling here. Am I just being paranoid, or has anyone else contemplated the possibility of Apple saying, "We can't fix it. Sorry." Then VSL saying, "Well - it's a legacy product so there's nothing we can do, either."?  Then folks who've spent thousands of dollars on practically every VSL offering for EXS24 will be left with the choice of forever using a dated version of Logic, or abandoning our sizable investments. (A five figure investment in our case.)

Go ahead. Call me paranoid if you like. But paranoia is what happens when there's silence on a problem like this. Someone reassure me, won't you? :-)

So here it is. A couple of days after Herb mentioned that I would be contacted by VSL's sales department, I received a lengthy - and extremely cordial - email from Stefan Steinbauer. Stefan told me that VSL could not extend the original upgrade offer for a year as I had requested. He gave me additional details on how I can lock in original upgrade prices through October 15th. After that, if I upgrade libraries between October 15th and December 31st, VSL will give me one or more free extended libraries - depending on how many I choose to upgrade. I would need to let them know in advance how many that is, so they can determine how many free extended libraries they can offer. That's the extent of it. So while I'm obviously disappointed, I give VSL credit for communicating with me personally and extending an olive branch offer.

Sorry guys. Between working on a scoring deadline and meeting with architects, bankers, etc. on our studio's upcoming move, I've been out of pocket for a bit. I've updated my profile to include my email address, so feel free to email privately if you'd like.

Fred Story

For the record...I was asking for all of us, not just myself.

Herb,

A detailed, thoughtful response. Thank you for taking time to make the explanation. I wouldn't begin to question your calculations. (Even if I thought it was appropriate, I wouldn't know how.) But given the relative cost of the product, and the fact that your customer base isn't exactly a wealthy lot, I still think some more time would be in order. If you had announced this a year ago, and given us 12 months - I doubt you would have received this kind of reaction. While I'm still not thrilled that you've essentially changed the deal after my purchase (technical arguments to the contrary notwithstanding), it's mostly the suddenness of the move which has taken me aback. I REALLY want to do the upgrade. I just don't think I can do it within the next six months. Given the circumstances, I don't think 12 months is an unreasonable extension. So I'll ask straight out - would you consider extending the current upgrade offer to 12 months?

Maybe I'm just a lousy business person, but to me one of the basics is - you don't change the deal AFTER the deal has been agreed upon.  Sure, we need to adapt to a changing landscape.  Prices have to go up, deals need to change.  VSL's recent American price increase because of the plummeting value of the dollar?  Totally understandable and justifiable.  But what if AFTER the purchase, VSL sent everyone a bill for the difference?  Bad business?  Not much to disagree with there. 

That's been my only point the whole way.  When I bought their product, we had a deal.  The deal included a stated upgrade path.  Now AFTER the purchase, they're changing the deal. 

A small example.  Ten years ago, I joined the DVD-by-mail rental service Netflix.  I got a certain number of rentals per month for a set price.  Since then, their prices have gone up a number of times, and you get fewer discs for the price.  But my deal has stayed the same - same price, same number of discs.  As long as you maintain your membership, your price NEVER goes up from the level you enter at.  Price increases only apply to new members.  I've been bombarded with offers from competitors, but I remain loyal to Netflix...because they remain loyal to me.  (Their profits were up 36% this year, so there must be something to it.)

It's just good business.   

So...it would appear that this thread has slowly wound to a conclusion without a real explanation - or reconsideration (other than the additional 3 months) - on VSL's part. Oh well. We tried.

Something else just occurred to me. If Herb says that most Pro Edition users have already upgraded, and that this decision doesn't affect very many customers - it would seem that the reason for the announcement isn't financial. I get the sense that it's purely logistical - that keeping up with different levels of upgrades is simply inconvenient for them. To which I would say: For various reasons - you have some stragglers out here. Is the door being closed on us for no other reason other than that it's a pain to keep us in your upgrade system? Boy - I hope that's not the case.

If I might be indulged one final comment...

If VSL, in its marketing from the beginning, had said something like, "In the future, when VSL releases an upgraded package - or new software -  users will have one year in which to purchase these products at a reduced upgrade price."...I don't think anyone would have complained.  In fact, I'm pretty sure they would have been lauded for their exceptional upgrade policy.  I, for one, would have have thought it more than fair.

But that's NOT what they did.  And while I've been reading all the discussion about whether or not VI contains the same samples, the legal ramifications, want vs. need, etc. - the fact is, VSL did one simple thing...they made a promise to their customers. Speaking only for myself, the decision to postpone upgrading was based on this promise. (And financial realities - which aren't relevent to anyone but me).  But they changed their mind, changed the game - and in so doing, fundamentally changed my impression of the way they do business. 

It's basic credibility. If they changed their mind on this, how do we know they won't change it on something else in the future?  That's not a personal attack or an insult.  I'm not calling anyone a liar or a cheat here.  It's just an observation that, for me, will impact the dependability of what they have to say going forward.  It's a business decision. That's it.  

I hate it when these things get personal.  I still have great admiration for Herb and his team.  I don't take anything away from their amazing accomplishments, and I'm still getting my work done with Pro Edition and all the Horizon collections.  (Albeit more slowly than if I had VI.)  I'll either find a way to upgrade within six months or I won't.  (If not, I suspect it'll be never.)  But to me, if I strip away all the emotion and all the technical arguments, it still comes down to one simple thing.  Keep your promises.  And if you can't keep your promises, have a good explanation for why.  So far - I haven't heard one.

In the end, PaulR is right.  They'll do what they do.  We'll do what we do.  We'll all move on.  I've always made music with the tools at hand, and that won't change.

Fred Story 

 Another person here who DEFINITELY has plans to upgrade.  I'd love to have the productivity increase I know I'll get.  It's just taking a lot longer than I'd like.

I couldn't agree more, Paul. The way we make our buying decisions is of no consequence in this discussion. I only used it as an example. The point was, we rely on honest information from the people we spend our money with. If we don't get it - we'll buy from someone else. Plus, our relationship with VSL is different than the one we have with our health insurance company. I have NO affection for our health insurance company, while I have great affection for VSL. I wouldn't ask anyone to change their opinion...I'm just expressing mine. I understand all too well the concept of shifting economic realities and the need for a company to adapt to them. What about the idea of simply keeping your word? Is that a load of bollocks, too?

No, Paul. I haven't complained to my health insurance company. But then, they didn't tell me my premiums wouldn't go up - then raise them anyway...in which case I would have raised hell. (But we did switch to another provider who offered premiums we could better afford.) My point (poorly made apparently) was about keeping your word. Nothing else. I didn't ask for, nor do I want, your sympathy.

 I've been speaking out about this, and they're my first posts in months.  Here - and in other forums - those of us scratching our heads and asking for answers are being portrayed as helpless whiners.  Well, helpless I'm not.  I head a fairly thriving little music production company, which my wife and I have nurtured and built over the years.  We're active in our local business community, and we work with a committed, talented group of composers, sound designers and the like.  When it comes to certain costs (capital expenditures, as my accountant calls them), we have to balance MANY needs.  We also provide health insurance to our team (paying 100%).  Costs are skyrocketing, and their health and well-being is more important than owning the latest and greatest sample library.

So, would I have LOVED to have been able to upgrade to VI already?  Yes!   But other priorites have interceded.  To set those priorities, we used information we trusted.  Had we known that VSL would rescind the very offer that played a part in my decision to invest in their product; had we known that at some future date the upgrade price would effectively double, we might have placed the upgrade higher on the priority list.  I remember my wife saying specifically, "The health insurance is going up again and we had some unexpected repair costs.  What can we cut from our spending plan?"  I answered, "Well, as much as it pains me - the VSL upgrade is over $5,000.00, so we can wait a while longer.  The upgrade price will still be there."

See where I'm going with this?  If I offered my best clients a free session for spending a certain amount of money with us, never mentioning a deadline, then arbitrarily told them that they only have 3 months to use it - or they'll lose it - I would EXPECT them to be upset!  If they ask why I'm suddenly putting a cutoff on the offer, they have every right to EXPECT a good answer, and I'd feel a responsibility to give them one.

That's the thing about the free enterprise system - there's no law that says you can't make a bad decision.  Heaven knows I've made MY share.  And that's all I'm saying.  My opinion as a customer, and as a businessperson, is that VSL has made a bad decision here.

So, am I whining?  Call it what you will.  VSL doesn't owe me anything.  And I don't have the time or inclination to pursue the matter further.  I'll either be able to afford the upgrade during the (now) 6 month period or I won't.  With the enormous expense of building a new studio looming, the timing's pretty lousy - but that's not VSL's problem, or their fault.  I'll deal with it.  

I just hate to see a company I admire so much make such a misstep.  It's left a bad taste in my mouth, and - for the first time - has me listening to demos from the other guys.  

Thanks for indulging my lengthy post.

Fred Story 

I actually read the whole thing, and my interpretation is 1) VSL screwed up and needs to find a way to fix this, and 2) they don't make a ton of money doing this so we need to cut them a little slack. Not to speak for the original writer, of course. :-)

Reply to the earlier post about the diffuculty of reading single blocks of text...

Apparently there's a bug with Safari in which formatting isn't represented.  No matter how many line breaks you enter, posts show as a single block of text. I went back and edited my earlier posts using Firefox. 

FYI for Safari users.

Fred Story 

You know, I'm happy to have another 3 months, so I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth. (I just hope we don't go over budget on our studio relocation, preventing me from doing the upgrade anyway.) And I wouldn't even bother to write a post-mortem to the announcement except for my love of VSL's products, and what I perceive as their genuine commitment to serve composers and musicians like myself.

But here's some tough love, guys...you need some PR help in these matters! First, it's hard to imagine that you didn't anticipate backlash from such an announcement and take steps to soften the blow. And second, even when you give a little by extending the deadline, the tone seems abrupt. There certainly appears to be little effort to explain the inconsistencies between your past marketing materials and this sudden change in policy. To me, there's not a lot of ambiguity in the word "Lifetime". ("Bitching and moaning" accusations notwithstanding.)

Love is a two way street, you know.

Fred Story