Thanks for your feedback, Paul.

I've realized an uncomplicated solution in my case/ for my purposes. I can always go back to the sequence and modify notes and their parameters ...specifically, I can adjust some gain-staging for any troublesome "shy" notes.

All I can ask is to please let it be known there are still end-users who would like VSL's excellent Recorder Library to be on your list of products to consider revisiting & updating. 

Thanks!

Personally, I like the C Greatbass and find that I’m covered regarding the lack of an F Bass …”and then some.” Yamaha’s YRGB-61 (C Greatbass) & YRB-61 (F Bass) match very well, and their response and (especially) tonality/timbre are nicely matched/ compatible. But, of course, they’re each different horns with different dimensions. No one but “Andreas1” can be the judge of what he requires, what he hears, or his preference. 

Modern “Baroque” recorders, as a standard, play two octaves and a whole-step. Handmade instruments should speak all of them well. Factory instruments are sometimes challenged with particular notes & one needs to become very familiar with each individual instrument’s idiosyncrasies in order to play all the notes well. Sometimes one should just replace the instrument if it has flaws / special needs. These things aren’t rocket-science, but this wooden tube with holes & a whistle built-in is a small miracle in the hands of a master artist.

Xiadong Li's comment is well-taken, but, no, the notes in question don't require alternate fingerings to sound properly, volume-matched, and properly in-tune. Although the character of a baroque recorder has a different quality depending on the tessitura, these several bad notes aren't particularly rogue notes. Perhaps the issue is only with the digital signal & post-production intricacies? 

I've owned and performed with all the Yamaha instruments used for this library & owned many other instruments from mass-produced to hand-made wonders. Yamaha recorders in this line are very decent instruments, and, imo, well-chosen for this sampling library as they're reliable, have interesting color, and they sound consistent across the ensemble.

Is this the final word on the subject? Dietz? Such an old thread... but the issue of "bum notes" in (mainly) the Alto & Tenor Recorder instruments is really disappointing. These objectively weak notes should have been better volume-matched to the rest of the package and they simply were not. The only workarounds I've found mentioned here are pitch-bending or after-the-fact-Melodyne rendering. "Recorders" was nearly the first VSL library I bought, and it's great. But flawed. :(  Also, The Soprano Recorders “42 RE-So_perf-rep_leg_noVib” seems to be a duplicate of “41 RE-So_perf-rep_leg_Vib”, as Albino mentioned two years ago.

If I can extend the range of instruments using VI Pro, can't I replace a note (and it's dynamic variations) within an articulation/patch? Why in the world hasn't VSL issued an update for this library? How many "man-hours" are required to (not even re-record them but digitally) replace a few individual notes?

Thanks for your input, Beat! As a player of recorder/ blockflöte ensemble music, we tend to play our notes shorter than rehearsed when performing in large-sounding spaces ...in order to reduce muddiness & allow the audience to hear articulations as best as possible in the reverberant venue. There’s also the concept of making a musical gesture or articulation *more obvious* and intentional, in some circumstances, rather than subtle. Do you find this holds generally true for “cutting through” a mix in the VSL/ MIR virtual world?

I may be misunderstanding the issue so far, but is 3rd-party software like "Automap" a workaround for this?

I'm expecting arrival of my new 49-key Novation Impulse MIDI controller tomorrow... not looking forward to discovering Automap 4.12's limitations within my world of : 

• Sibelius 8.6
• ProTools 12.8
• VE Pro7
• MIR Pro24
• Akai EWI USB

Thanks for any advice!

Sorry I can't comment on Cubase's capabilities. I'm a Sibelius user and I use Photoscore software to do the "note recognition" (you know, like optical character recognition, only for music) with impressive results (provided the PDF is legible and also not miniscule). That's step 1. Another Music Recognition program exists which works nicely with Finale, called "Smart Score", which, I think uses the same "engine" as Photoscore. They advertise as "music-to-xml-music notation recognition"... so if Cubase can import music-xml I'd go for that software as your intermediate step. 

HTH!

How does one delete an image attached to a previous post?

Dietz, point taken; my apologies.
Please know, fwiw, I posted the pic in an effort to assist a fellow-VSL user; only intended as a visual statement that a certain instrument exists. That said, this was my bad. In the bigger scope of the word, I see that sort of thing is indeed an advertisement.

All free: start with https://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Composers and www1.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/Category:Composers

Many entries include MIDI files, and some even include Sibelius, Finale, or other source files.

Civilization 3, approx. how many channels are in your typical project? I ask b/c we're talking about mostly small chamber ensembles for me. I'm currently on a 4-core iMac 21.5" from "mid-2011" with 24GB RAM. My bank account has gone toward VSL instruments & software & instruments & software &... so little is left to upgrade my Mac. I have handfulls of external SATA drives, but everything VSL & DAW is on the iMac internal drive:

VE Pro, VI Pro, MIR 24, Pro Tools 12.8, Sibelius 8.6. So far so good.

Thanks!

Just my opinion, and I've been known to speak with my foot in my mouth many times, but this is my understanding (I earned my B.M. degree in Music Production and Engineering years ago when digital audio was new.)

You’re saying that systems these days are *optimized* for sample rates like 96KhZ @ 24-bits… to the point where input, processing, and output at that rate is actually *faster* than it would be if it had to digitally convert half as much data? Hmmm. You mention a few clock cycles to convert. I’m not a CPU expert nor an Apogee employee, but my understanding is that latency in one's system depends on I/O, processing, and conversion (at least). If I were a betting man I’d guess the nanoseconds it’d take interpolating half as much data would ballpark-equivalent to natively-processing twice as much data.

.    Thanks William. I have HW1 & HW2. The serpent is great, and I couldn’t ask for a more well-sampled cornett!! 

.    Your point about spoiling the authentic aesthetic is well-taken, and perhaps even a definitive opinion. Yes, my idea may indeed be silly but sometimes we try to do what we can when the ideal isn’t a possibility. :)

.    Re: “estimating” a renaissance-trombone section… mine will be more of a mixed consort. :)  But, in the spirit of keeping options open and looking outside the box, maybe I’ll find I should just settle for trombones-only for now. otoh, maybe adding a soft, high cimbasso, &/or a limited wagner tuba, &/or a tamed bass trumpet to a modern, EQ’d, limited, trombone section could be in the ballpark for my purpose.

.    Thanks Paolo for reminding me of the renaissance trombone in Fluffy's Rinascimento. Can you tell us, how is Tarilonte's Era II cornett? imo, Fluffy's "soprano cornett" is sub-par for its lower 2/3 or more of it's range, but the package includes Baroque Guitar & some other nice sounds.

<p>&nbsp;</p>
<ul>
<li>Paolo, there&rsquo;s an authentic Baroque Bassoon instrument out there[img]null[/img]</li>
<li>re: sackbuts for use in double-choir pieces (Willaert, Gabrieli, et al.) and with cornetti in general: I have the&nbsp;Rinascimento library but haven't dug in yet.</li>
<li>Would it be at all convincing&nbsp;to&nbsp;make a composite pseudo-sackbut&nbsp;emulation ...at least for certain&nbsp;limited&nbsp;ranges&nbsp;&amp;&nbsp;limited dynamics?&nbsp;Maybe adding customized EQ in addition to a&nbsp;dynamic LP filter? I've got VSL's Organ, Cimbasso, Wagner Tuba, Flugelhorn, &amp; Bass Trumpet as ingredients. What do you think? Has anyone experimented with using the attack of one horn but the body &amp; tail of another?</li>
<li>I think I read somewhere the idea of a mickey-mouse cornetto by combining flugelhorn &amp; heckelphone. Not quite.&nbsp; :)</li>
</ul>

fwiw/my 2cents is that these ancient instruments are sorely missed:
dulcian satb
baroque bassoon
sackbut
satb violas da gamba
baroque violin, perhaps
Thanks for considering, VSL!

.   Andi! Having read this thread more thoroughly, I hope you can understand me today with my foot in my mouth. :)

.   I’m replying to say I’m surely missing/ misunderstanding some important things because:

.   I see manual soundsets were indeed mentioned, and you also already advised <<Please don't set up MIDI channels in the Sibelius mixer. The channels need to be set up on the Manual Sound Sets page.>> and <<Make sure to use the same channels in Vienna Ensemble and on the Sibelius Manual Sound Sets page>>.

.   My experience is that this in itself is insufficient specifically because Sibelius’ Mixer’s MIDI assignments seem to have a mind of their own. I do not get correct results with Sibelius & VE Pro6 unless I take the time to assign MIDI channels in the Sibelius Mixer as I’d written. To be clear, the order of instruments I list in my Manual Soundset correspond exactly to those instruments’ MIDI assignments I establish for them in VE Pro6. In Sibelius’ Manual Soundset tab, I set-up “Preferred Devices” as well. However, for me, at this point Sibelius’ Mixer still shows seemingly random MIDI channel assignments.

.   I see Andi further verifies: <<It's important that you choose the same MIDI channel number in Vienna Ensemble and on the Sibelius Manual Sound Sets tab. For that you can ignore the channel counter number>> (of the channels in the channel list of VE).

.   ...and<<The first instrument that you add in Vienna Ensemble gets MIDI Port 1/MIDI Channel 1 assigned. Maybe you have looked at the channel counter at the left. An empty Vienna Ensemble instance already includes a Master Bus with channel counter 1. So when you add an instrument it will have channel counter 2, but MIDI channel 1.>>

.   So I’m misunderstanding something key here. Could it be possible I’ve been confusing VE Pro6’s “channel counter” (at the top left) with “MIDI channel number” (at the lower right)?! I think I avoid that confusion because my habit is that the Master Fader belongs right-most/ last in the channel list, so it’s always the case that the channel order (“Counter”) happens to correspond with the desired MIDI channel assignment that I specify.

.   Please remind me what specifically are the critical aspects of using the ”Vienna Symphonic Library" House Style in Sibelius.

.   I love the back-to-basics checklist, thank you! :<<If no sound is generated, please follow the signal chain.- Do the MIDI signals reach the instruments in Vienna Ensemble? - Is an audio signal generated in the player?- Does the audio signal leave Vienna Ensemble at OUT1/OUT2?>>

“+1”

Hello Mr. Kaufmann!
> Philip, I’d have the studio engineer provide a discreet relatively dry track as well as separate tracks recorded/ "live-mixed" ...taking advantage of whatever ambience sounds good... or avec his/her favorite studio reverb. That way, you'll have options when you plunk the tracks into your existing mix & the MIR environment.
> re: studio ambience; I'm reminded also of the concept of microphone setup being used to most realistically record an instrument, as opposed to the concept of most realistically recording the space the instrument is in (which should only be attempted if the acoustic space merits it!).
> Personally, I like the transparency of active Royer ribbon mics & Millennia pre-amps.
>HTH!

Oceanview (and Andi)... I skimmed the thread so pardon me if it's been addressed, but as Andi wrote early on, <<Make sure to use the same channels in Vienna Ensemble and on the Sibelius Manual Sound Sets page.>> OK. It seems Oceanview made some things correspond... but maybe not. I haven't seen any emphasis placed on the concept of Sibelius' "manual sound sets" and their significance and implementation, and it seems that might be a weak link in this scenario. Just a thought. Oceanview, make sure you've read the Sibelius Refence Manual re: Manual Sound Sets & the "preferred instruments" settings. If this is all properly set up, you should be able to choose "Auto" in Sibelius' mixer... and at least the correct sounds should load. From there, you may have to make absolutely sure the Sibelius Mixer ch.1 is assigned MIDI1, ch.2=midi2, etc. In order to get this to even be possible on my iMac setup, I assign 1 & only 1 of the correct MIDI channel assignments in Sibelius' Mixer, then I *must* hit Play & then I immediately stop & I'm then able to assign the next MIDIch for the next Sibelius Mixer slot. Seems playing the piece somehow wakes up or "registers" the MIDI assignment in the Sib Mixer.

I do hope some of this is useful & not 100% preaching to the choir!

If you wish to mix in your DAW & not via VE, and it's too much to throw all your virtual instruments out to the DAW at once... then you could try multiple passes outputting just a handful (or even 2) at a time of your tracks using the discreet available outputs you have. In any case, for sure, you yourself will learn how much re: cpu resources things require, sooner or later. Just go for it!

Thank You, Paul. If I understand correctly, in VI Pro, I should load the Vibraphone instrument via the Matrix Browser.
...And, if I upgrade to the full Vibraphone instrument, will it’s Preset then be listed under the principal “D. Percussion; Mallets" Preset category? Or will I still load the Vibes via the Matrix browser?
[Tags: mallets, matrix browser, presets, vibraphone]

    Is it erroneous that I don’t see any Presets for my Vibraphone “standard library” in VI Pro? Matrices & Patches are accessible under “Download Instruments; Percussion+Co; 21D Vibraphone” …But in the Presets category, under "Download Instruments", I see “Brass” and “Woodwind” subcategories containing their respective instruments, but no "Percussion+Co" or "Mallets". (I see only my "Celeste" under the "D. Percussion; Mallets" Preset category ...which seems questionably mis-categorized, but that's something else.)

    By doing a search I found a Vibraphone Preset under the “Sibelius” category (I have the most current Sibelius presets installed). 

You make a couple good points, littleweirdo. I think some of our concepts of early music might apply more specifically to very different centuries. Hildegard’s not my bag but my wife digs her music. And again, I know I'm probably preaching to the choir here...

Of my taste & preference, I can only really comment on European music from around 1550-1750. For me, the pull toward those 2 centuries of early music seems to offer some reassurance & sense of order against the chaos of our present world. Also, some of the older musical instruments can make wonderful, uncommon sounds. Early music becomes interesting for me at the points of major change from earliest Renaissance into later Renaissance, and into early Baroque & then Baroque. Maybe into the Galante just a bit.

So, we should clearly differentiate time periods & sacred/ secular. I’d appreciate a reference re: the Church setting rules for music. (Here's where I think you're remembering much earlier lifetimes than my tastes wish for.) In general, of course church music has been & is more conservative than secular… and in the earliest times of written music history, sacred music is probably nearly the only sort of music we have documentation of. So, maybe sometimes the limits of empirical musicological research still leave us some special mysteries!  :) 

 2 interesting references you may dig:
[both are available for preview @ http://gen.lib.rus.ec]

• Music Theory-Problems and Practices in the Middle Ages and Renaissance (Lloyd Ultan, 1978)
• The Notation Is Not the Music-Reflections on Early Music Practice and Performance (Barthold Kuijken, 2013 IU Press)

Hey guys! A few basics (I’m sure you may already know) re: tempo changes, dynamics, expressive playing, and conductor-led, composer-dictated rendition vs. the performer's art of interpretation…

Considering that Early Music —pre-Mozart— involved relatively smaller ensembles, the chef/ conductor might well have been one of the ensemble performers. Also, importantly, in those times larger venues didn’t exist strictly for the purposes of musical performance. Generally speaking, as audiences gradually became larger, so did the venues …and so newer instruments developed to suit the setting.

Professional chapel & court musicians of the time were quite skilled in harmony, interpretation, and instrumental technique. Perhaps it’s too easy to assume lots about music was simpler, less refined, or even less touching than in later periods. My advice is to (try to) not hold an opinion, remain open, & check it out.

J.S. Bach’s favorite instrument was the intimate clavichord. Maybe you didn’t know that, unlike the harpsichord/“clavecin” (which plucks the string & then must reset itself before “striking” again), the clavichord’s keys cause a metal “tine” to contact the string for as long as the key is depressed, so it’s (a) capable of vibrato! by wiggling one’s finger on the key, and (b) capable of a range of dynamics by striking the keys harder or softer. In spite of it’s flexibility, it’s such a quiet instrument, I don’t think it was intended for public performance.

The recorder really sank into the background when the transverse flute, with it's greater dynamic capability, came into it’s own; and the poor cornetto and it's dubious intonation (except in the hands of the most skilled) was eventually passed over for the violin. (Also, the plague wiped-out a significant number of cornett players in the early 1600’s!) 

If certain renaissance motets or madrigals, for example, or some intimate Marin Marais played by viola da gamba virtuoso Jordi Savall can bring us to tears, and some early baroque "stylus fantasticus" (Schmelzer!, Biber, Farina, etc.) wow and amaze you with their constant changes of tempo and varying dynamics… how can it be said one period of music is "more than”, or that another one "doesn't contain" a certain musical element?

Musical rhetoric/ "the art of delivery" (and more) was part & parcel of Baroque music. You'll discover the performer was expected to improvise ("spontaneously compose") on the written *roadmap* of sheet music, and also every bit as much trained to squeeze out emotion through their instrument in order to convey the passion of the moment to the audience (much as a skilled orator, once upon a time, was trained to affect a sympathetic audience). 

Last, the art of variation/ "divisions", and embellishments in general, in certain Renaissance instrumental music will blow your mind. Google/ Youtube Bruce Dickey or Jean Tubery (both virtuoso cornetto players), or "recorder" and "van Eyck". Maurice Steger and Dorothy Oberlinger are just two recorder virtuousos who might have us reevaluating what early instruments are capable of.

HTH!

sounds a lot like a kazoo; it's a "capped reed" instrument shaped like a letter "J" -- there's a double-reed hidden inside the headjoint, so the player needs no embouchure; made as an SATB family, and notoriously difficult to play in tune -- of course, historically, it's possible some crumhorn apologist may have written "it's the instrument most like the human voice" ...as other woods & winds claim.   :)