That did it!  Thanks for the assistance.

John Melcher

That's what I am doing.  All cells load disabled. Then I play through the file with LEARN selected, and specific samples are loaded. Then I save the VE Pro project and the Pro Tools session.  When I close and reopen the PT session, all cells are disabled again. What I want, of course, is for that state - only some cells enabled - to be preserved.

I'm hoping someone will tell me what step I'm missing, so I can shut down Pro Tools to install some new plug-ins.  I don't want to keep reloading and playing a 42-minute piece just to load the samples.

John Melcher

I'm using VI Pro in VE Pro 5,  as a plug-in for ProTools 12.4.  As I load new matrices, I disable all cells.  I set each VIP instance to Optimize Learn (though it seems to work the same if Off) and play through the file. All necessary samples load. Then I save the project.  When I reopen it, all cells are disabled and have to be reloaded. I also tried switching all instances to Optimize Enabled after playing through the file, but the results are the same.

What am I doing wrong? The manual is pretty vague.  Step-by-step instructions would be helpful!

Umm... A reinstall of some Avid drivers and a lot of fiddling with the VEP app has made everything work.  Wallander is receiving MIDI and playing audio back into PT12.  Awesome! I'll be ordering it soon.

We now rejoin our regularly-scheduled program.

John

I just upgraded to Pro Tools 12 (Windows 7), so I lost direct access to my RTAS plugins, in particular Wallander Instruments. On Wqallander's recommendation to use VEP, I've installed the 30-day demo, launched PT, opened a VEP instance in an aux track and added WIVI. However, the VEP Pro Server shows no MIDI connections available. There is no Server panel in VEP | Options | Preferences, and within Pro Tools there's no way to connect to it.

The manual states: "If you want to use Vienna Ensemble PRO on your Master Computer, you need to start the Vienna Ensemble PRO Server (32 bit or/and 64 bit) on the Master Computer. Then connect Vienna Ensemble PRO to the Vienna Ensemble PRO instance that is displayed as “localhost” in the Server " However, I can't launch VEP Server outside of Pro Tools.  I get an error that "the requested network port is not available."

When I click on the VEP instance in the Aux track insert, the Status is "Not Assigned."

Certainly I'm doing (or not doing) something simple and pobvious, but I'm stumped.

Thanks!

John Melcher 

Hello!  I think the Solo Voices library is the beginning of what I need (more vowels and consonants and some kind of word-builder, please). But I don't hear much variety in the demos, which are all rather florid, slow, using heavy vibrato and swimming in reverb. I'm looking for something "jazzier", like The Swingle Singers or the voices in Reich's "Drumming", and want to hear the staccato consonants.

Also, are there non vibrato samples, or a way to control the amount of vibrato?

Finally, please do consider adding "oh" and "ee", plus more consonants.

Thanks,  John Melcher

Indeed it does!  For some reason, it wasn't working before.  It's a wonderful feature.  Disable all the cells, play the piece once, and exactly what's needed gets loaded, no more.  Thanks!

 

John Melcher

VI Pro has an undocumented global setting, "Enable Cells on MIDI Activity".  I thought I could load a preset with all cells disabled, and let the software enable the ones it needed, but it's not doing anything. Can someone please clarify?  Thanks.

 

John Melcher

Sorry, I couldn't resist. :)

The piece I referred to (which isn't quite finished) is here:

https://soundcloud.com/bkkjohn/monsters

It's scored for 48 strings (12-12-10-8-6) and percussion (VSL Percussion). It uses a lot of quarter-tones.

I realize that ultra-realism in unison lines is the primary selling point for most users, but for me it's being able to have extreme divisi without phasing artifacts, at those times when the same note is played by 2,3 or more players.

John

I, too, was trying to emulate con sordino (also sul ponticello and sul tasto), sadly missing from Dimension Strings (for now?). The challenge is that these playing modifications affect the frequency spectrum of each note differently. So what is required is a filter that changes with each note. You can reasonably fake con sordino, for example, with a variable low-pass filter, and automating the cutoff frequency and resonance to change with each note. Sul ponticello can be similarly emulated with a high-pass filter, and sul tasto with a notch (band-stop) filter. This is only effective with monophonic lines or small-interval double stops.

That's pretty amazing, since the MIDI specification was published in 1983.

BTW, MY main use for DS is divisi as flexible as a real orchestra. A piece I just completed has 48 separate parts. Sometimes every instrument has a different note, sometimes they're doubled, tripled, etc. Much more realistic than using the same 1 or 2 solo instrumets over and over, and virtally no phasing problems.

I'm unable to install them. I downloaded the files to another computer copied them, and ran the Library Installer. When I try to install - to ANY directory - I get an error - "Cannot install to source directory - Please choose a different destination folder." This happens no matter where the source files reside or what destination folder is selected.

John Melcher

John

Hi Paul,

Yes, I'm feeling profoundly stupid for discovering that, five minutes after posting. All is well! And thanks for responding so quickly!

John

Help! I've been running VI and VE on Pro Tools. I have an Ensemble file with 48 instances of VI (for Dimension Strings).


I just upgraded to VI Pro. Now what? When Pro Tools launches, VE launches with the original VI instances. I tried saving them as Presets, adding s VI Pro instance and then loading the preset, as stated in the VI Pro manual, but it replaces it with the original VI instance, and I'm back where I started.


Is there a simple way to rebuild the VE file? I certainly don't want to start over. and have to re-edit everything. DO I have to save 48 presets, add 48 new VI Pro Instances, load the presets and then delete the original VI instances? If so, how?


John Melcher

Given this constraint, my options are:

- Use a different sample library (i.e., Kirk Hunter Solo Strings with Gigastudio);

- Break longer glissandi into pieces and try to cover the seams;

- Rewrite the music to fit what VSL allows me to do.

Or VSL could make a small programming change and allow me to make the aesthetic decisions as to what sounds "good" (realistic).

It's also possible I might WANT to do something radical that doesn't sound like a real orchestra.

Wouldn't it be better to provide it and let your users decide if it sounds "good" or not? I just bought Dimension Strings (my first VSL library) and was disappointed to take a step backwards from Gigastudio in this regard. I found that +/-3 semitones was usually okay, making controlled tritone glissandos possible. Seriously, it seems like a relatively trivial programming task, withheld because someone made an aesthetic decision on my behalf.

John Melcher

Thanks, it makes sense :). Not sure if I'd use VEP, as it adds more cost and another layer of mixing complexity within the DAW.

BTW, Xenakis often wrote for 32 or more violins, though when he showed Metastasis to Scherchen he was told to reduce the strings: "We don't have 12 cellos."

I'm trying to virtualize something of mine which is scored 16/16/12/10/8. At times complete divisi, most of the time divided by desk, sometimes a5 (3-3-3-3-3/3-3-3-3-3...), a4 (4-4-4-4/4-4-4-4/4-4-3-3/3-3-2-2/2-2-2-2), a2 (8-8/8-8/7-7/5-5/4-4) or undivided.

I could rewrite it to make the divisi simpler, but then I'm composing to match the library, which seems backwards. If the required instantiations lock up the computer, I'll overdub (or if I win the lottery, by two licenses and two computers).

Wow, that's certainly a brute-force method. As I understand, 1 instantiation gives me 1 violin, 1 viola, 1 cello and 1 bass part, so a full string section (16-14-10-8-6), full divisi, would require 30 instantiations. I suspect that's a massive CPU load. Are there any stats on this, how many can be loaded on a computer with some standard CPU, Mac and Windows? It would be frustrating to invest in this and then discover that my system craps out after 20 or 30 instantiations and I have to overdub.

Does "yes" mean there will be another DS library one must purchase to get con sord (and other articulations)? Or does the Early Bird price include all later additions?

John Melcher

I'm still a bit confused by the VSL technology. Is this correct:


To create 24 separate violin parts, I open 3 instantiations of the VI player, each loaded with 8 DS solo violins. At times, each violin has its own part, and at others, the full Violin I or Violin II choir (12 violins each) play in unison.


Since DS provides 8 violins, in order to build the full choir, I would use 4 violins from another instantiation, subtly repitched and humanized to avoid phasing, . Thus, VI instantiation #1 has I Violins 1-8, instantiation #2 (pitch shifted) has I Violins 9-12 and II Violins 1-4, and instantiation #3 II Violins 5-12.


In experience with other string libraries, I've found that pitch shifting identical samples, which reducing phasing problems, doesn't sound much like two instruments, rather a thicker version of one instrument. I wonder if building a full symphonic string choir this way will sound artificial, with 16 violins represented by 8 unique samples. Herb Tucmandl says in his interview, "...the timbre of a huge string section, such as our Appassionata Strings with 20 violins, cannot be replaced by 8 violins".


Thanks for your help.


John Melcher

I'm still not clear on a few points. Let me use a real-world example: Schnittke's Concerto for Piano and Strings. The string section is 12-12-8-8-6. At times, all 12 1st violins (for example) play in union. Often they divide in 3, or in 6 or in 12. Quarter-tones are sometimes used. The other choirs are divided similarly.

To create all of the violins would require 3 DS instantiations (I). Is it possible to combine 8 violins from I1 + 4 from I2 in unison (using the humanizing tricks mentioned above)? Is it also possible to write 3,4,6 or 12 completely separate parts for the 12 violins?

Thanks for your help.

John Melcher