Right up front I'd better let you know you'll have to open the Environment to do this (unless I've missed something new and crucial in LPX - tell me). Technical awkwardness ahoy! Still want to boldly go? Really, it's not that bad so let's go.

First thing to know: in LPX 10.4.5 if we want to use more than one port for an instance of VEP7 and we want real AU3 communications integrity rather than the older VSL pre-AU3 multiport workaround, then we can't use Logic's MIDI instruments for that - they're good for only 16 channels max per instance if cabled directly; AU3 port assignment is not currently available in MIDI instruments. (Note that VSL used the word "workaround" with good reason; it wasn't offered as a full production-standard solution. It was a good workaround but it's open to certain highly technical questions which simply don't arise for AU3. So please don't go bashing VSL).

We use one Logic Software Instrument per VEP7/AU3 instance. Only one. All the other tracks created after the first one (up to 768 in total) that are to connect to one VEP instance are merely hidden copies of the software instrument track strip device in which you have a VEP/AU3 plugin inserted, except that each copy has its own port and channel assignments. Hence any MIDI FX or MIDI scripts you plug in to the VEP client software instrument will affect outgoing MIDI streams on all ports identically. You won't see any of these instrument copies in the mixer pane of Logic's Main window, but they'll all be there in the Environment's Mixer Layer. More on that in a moment.

The Procedure

1. Launch the VEP7 server. Starting with a completely empty Logic project, create the first software instrument and insert a VEP7/AU3 plugin. You should now be able to see MIDI channel (default "All") and Port (default "1") assignments in the Track Inspector of Logic's Main window. Connect the plugin to an instance of the server.

2. Let's set up 16 single-channel tracks for Port 1. Set MIDI Channel to 1 in the Track Inspector. With Instr 1 track in the track list selected, hit [Ctrl+Return] or top-bar menu item Track/Other/New Track With Next Channel, 15 times. Stack these tracks in a folder if you wish. Now you have 16 tracks on one port, each on its own channel, BUT you can at any future time add more tracks to this port in this instance without necessarily having to delete or change anything already done. This ability to layer many tracks in a single port is especially handy for assigning several omni (MIDI Channel: All) tracks to one multitimbral Kontakt player in VEP.

3. Next comes the tricky part: how to create more tracks and assign them to other VEP ports. Having tried lots of other ways, I've settled on this one cuz it works and works predictably.

Create an empty new software instrument (i.e. with no VEP or any other plugin). Now open an Environment window and select the Mixer Layer. You'll see 16 track strip objects representing the 16 tracks you created in step 2, along with the new Instr 2 you've just created, plus some default strips belonging to the mixer. Might be a good idea to tidy it up a bit before you go further - it can get messy. Select Software Instrument 2 that you've just created and look in the Object Inspector panel. It won't show any Port assignment yet. In the "Channel" assignment field (second one down in the Inspector list) open the popup menu and select "Inst 1". You now have another track connected to the VEP plugin in the first software instrument you created at the top of step 1. Software Instrument 2 has gone. Next down in the Object Inspector list, set "MIDI Channel" to 1 and "Port" to 2. Hop back to Logic's Main window and satisfy yourself that this new track in the track list is now assigned to Instrument 1, Channel 1, Port 2. You can now use the process in step 2 above to add more channels to this port.

4. And that's it, basically. For each new port you want to assign new tracks to, create another new empty Software Instrument then hop into the Environment and re-assign this new instrument to the software instrument that already has the targeted VEP instance plugged in.

Hello Stephen,

Lol, agree with your comments about Apple's apparent 'strategy'. I still have a great deal of respect for Apple's desktop hardware design engineers (much more so than the MacBook cowboys), and OMG the exotic new cheese grater and that fabulous new 6K 32" Retina screen have set the world of computer techie Youtubers on fire! Looking forward to some serious testing and reviews from those guys before I know whether to feel miserable or very miserable about not being able to afford those beauties.

As for AU3, I've had VSL's AU3 Beta multiport templates (created by VSL on 2nd May) working without problems on my localhost 2017 5K iMac with LPX 10.4.5 in High Sierra. Also I've been able to build my own custom AU3 multiport templates from scratch without too much hassle and thus far without any serious problems in operation. 

Custom-building AU3 templates is not exactly a slick job (though just a little smidge easier than in 10.4.4) because Apple clearly haven't yet brought AU3 functionality up to full production standard in LPX; it seems to work ok on my system but one could say right now it's in an early Windows/Cubase kind of awkwardness lol. I'll be posting a new thread here on how to approach the building of custom AU3 multiport templates in LPX 10.4.5.

Dammit that sucks, Dewdman42, sorry to hear it.

I was really disappointed to see - apart from a couple of undocumented tidy-ups in the use of ports with VEP7AU3 - that 10.4.5 seems to have placed zero importance on getting AU3 up to full production standard.

I'm seriously entertaining the not too distant prospect of terminal so-called "code rot" in LPX. That'll be a terrible wrench for me cuz I've been with Logic since Logic Audio Platinum 3.5F back in 2001. Honestly I don't think Apple's LPX devs are up to the challenge of maintaining and developing Emagic's erstwhile masterpiece of software engineering. Years ago, Steinberg faced up to code rot in Cubase; they decided to ditch a big chunk of Cubase's legacy code that could no longer be maintained and developed economically or technically, replacing it with more recent, cleaner, better structured code lifted from Nuendo. Apple has no such option. I've very recently taken the plunge and embraced Cubase Pro 10, having banished Cubase back in the early 2000s because I didn't like its rudeness, its propensity to fall over in a big heap usually taking down the Mac with it, and its being overly influenced by Microsoft's geeky and less-than-congenial ideas about user-interfacing. But, well, things are very different now and I'm preparing for the worst with LPX.

Meanwhile let's just hope LPX has another few versions' worth of life left in it. Judging by the thousands of fixes in recent versions, it seems Apple are now seriously concerned about getting LPX to live up to its "Pro" name. Only time will tell if they can succeed in that. I'm betting - against my dearest wishes - that they can't.

Hello Robin,

it's still early days but things have indeed changed since that video. I need to get a bit technical here, so my apologies if this doesn't mean much to you - I know there are others who are very much into the technicalities of this topic.

That pre-AU3 multiport workaround used two discrete MIDI messages sent from Logic Environment to specify port number and channel number for each and every MIDI event sent from Logic's sequencer to VEP. It's a clever and creditable workaround by VSL and seems to work very well most of the time. However, I'm not convinced those two MIDI messages will stay together under all circumstances while being passed through Logic and onward via operating system core services - perhaps via an Ethernet LAN - to the appropriate VEP server instance. It's like trying to send a letter through the mail using two envelopes, each with a different part of the address written on it. Hence I suspect (though I can't say for sure) it may sometimes be possible for the port number message to be associated with a different (i.e. wrong) MIDI channel message by the time they reach VEP's routing - which can't be blamed for the confusion.

Since LPX 10.4.4 we now have Apple AU3 which, I assume, administers each MIDI event's data content and port and channel assignments within an indivisible packet or some sort of data frame which ensures port number and channel number always stay together with the associated MIDI event data. Thus it is to be expected that AU3 will ensure more robust and dependable multiport communication between Logic and each VEP instance.

As for how LPX 10.4.5 works with VEP AU3, I'm still working through it but from what I've seen and tried thus far, I haven't yet found a slick way to set up multiple ports for VEP7 AU3. But at least now each instrument strip in Logic can be expanded to provide up to 25 separate stereo pairs of audio from the VEP instance. 

LPX 10.4.5 includes hundreds of fixes (though lord knows how much additional stuff they've broken as a result); see Apple's complete release notes here:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203718

Bravo William!

I'm in awe of your magnificent creative energy, your fine skills in composition, orchestration and midistration, and your boundless care and attention to all detail, artistic and technical. I happen to be a fan of big bold romantic pieces (especially by the Russian greats) and I agree with Paolo in that I found myself effortlessly and willingly moved along by the narrative in this work, always finding my place as a listener appositely alongside the narrative at every moment.

Right now I can't aspire to such feats but your fine example inspires me to strive ever onwards in the great ocean of musical art and craft. Thank you William.

Hello Klavieronin,

Egregious bow scrape noise is a particular bugbear of mine also. I've found a way to reduce it substantially in monophonic instruments, though it can be a bit of a faff to set up correctly. 

With the aid of a spectrum analyser, there are two keyboard-tracking external filters to be applied, having first ensured that both filters are set up to track MIDI note numbers precisely:- 

  (1) a steep-slope high-pass placed immediately below the instrument's partial No 1;

  (2) a steep-slope -ve band-shelf or bandstop (or a simple peak may do nearly as well) positioned tightly between partials No 1 and 2.

In both cases avoid attenuating the partials themselves.

On the analyser you'll see bowing noise all over the place; nevertheless, I've found this method substantially attenuates the worst of what we can hear of it. One drawback is that in fast passages I can sometimes hear the filters moving with each note, which is a definite no-no; but since bowing noise tends to be less of a nuisance in fast passages the filters can be bypassed by automation during those sections in the music.

I've used MeldaProduction's MAutoDynamicEQ (with dynamics switched off) for this, though there are other plugins that will do as well if not better. Unfortunately, in Logic I have yet to work out a way to apply keyboard tracking to FabFilter's exquisite Pro Q3.

Well, like I said: a bit of a faff. But if the scrapes annoy you as much as they do me, I think you'll find it's worth the hassle.

Hello Dewdman42,

I get that orange "!" for about one second after I've inserted a new VEP7 AU3 client plugin, then it goes away and I can assign the Logic-VEP connection. I'm afraid I have no clue where or how your AU3 plugin's persistant error may be happening or WTF might be going on there.

I saw Martin's info about having the AU3 checkbox not ticked for the VEP7 AU3 plugin in Logic's plugin manager; had a look at mine and no surprise, it's not ticked.

I'm using LPX 10.4.4 in a 2017 5K iMac (7700K i7 option) with High Sierra 10.13.6. No tricks or fancy workarounds to get VEP7 working; it just did right out of the box.

Hope VSL help you get that sorted soon.

BTW, I saw you comments about Logic's MIDI Scripter. Because I also use a few scripts of my own I checked up on the Scripter situation in the multiport configuration. You're right, currently it appears there's no way different Scripters can be placed on different ports or even MIDI channels, within any one VEP instance. Whatever MIDI script happens to be inserted in the instrument mixer strip that has the VEP client plugin, it just gets duplicated along with all the other stuff belonging to that original instrument channel strip.

Although right now it seems Port and MIDI channel assignments are the only parameters that can be changed between duplicated tracks, we just don't know what Logic's AU3 features, functions, configurations etc will eventually be. Pretty sure Apple and VSL have a very tight Non-Disclosure Agreement, so even if VSL know what's coming in Logic they can't tell us anything about it.

Aaron, I've found a way that lets me create more than 16 MIDI channels per VEP7 instance using Logic's AU3 multiport 'feature'. I'm now happily using VEPro7 with various multiport Logic AU3 templates I've made from scratch - but only after several long sessions of cursing and wrestling with Logic's weird ways.

I guess you've already been using the "Track/Other/New Track With Next MIDI Channel" menu item (or [CMD+RTN] default key command) to create 15 more tracks in the Track List, all assigned to the Instrument mixer strip with the VEP7 AU3 client plugin. But now if you try to create any further new tracks using the same method, you find that instead of incrementing the port number and starting a new MIDI channel count, Logic assigns each new track to the next available Instrument strip in the mixer, creating a new Instrument strip if necessary. Also, the Main Window Track Inspector won't let you re-assign the new track back to your original VEP client Instrument strip. Gaaaahh!!

It seems Logic's AU3 multiport implementation is still only half-baked. (I have a strong suspicion that too many of Apple's Logic Pro X software engineers indulge in smoking weed; I'm not sure how else LPX could have become so incredibly flaky, cowboyish and irrational, compared to the good old Emagic Soft- und Hardware GmbH days.)

But all is not lost. The trick is this: we just have to hop over to the Mixer layer of Logic's Environment. There, once the Instrument Channel Strip objects have been dragged, one by one, out of the big pile Logic has made in its creation of each  new Track-With-Next-MIDI-Channel, the Environment Object Inspector can then be used to re-assign each of these additional (i.e. duplicated) Instrument track strip objects to any Instrument (using the "Channel" popout menu), any MIDI Port (1 to 48) and any MIDI Channel (1 to 16).

Only one thing I find a bit too weird to use now: in any VEP instance, If I assign the audio output of any mixer channel to the "base" channels 1 and 2, then in Logic's Environment ALL the duplicated Instrument Channel Strip objects assigned to that VEP instance show that same audio stream dancing on their meters. For me that just goes against the grain so I avoid audio channels 1 and 2, leaving me with only 15 stereo pairs per VEP instance. Hmpff.

Hope this helps. Don't hesitate to ask for more or clearer nitty gritty details if you need them.

BETTER WORKAROUND

(Note: I have only one computer, a 5K iMac running MacOS 10.13.6.)

In the DAW I Insert a second VEPro7 client plugin before connecting the first, then I connect them both. After that I can insert more VEPro7 client plugins in the DAW whenever I want; each new insert now shows the list of server instances and can be connected to the VEPro7 server app in the normal way.

I've found this works for Logic 10.4.4, Ableton Live Suite 9.7.7 (VST and AU) and Reason 10.3.

Let's see if this workaround also does the trick across Ethernet LANs.

UPDATE - Well done and thank you Martin!

Alex, I encountered the same issue in Logic Pro X. It's a bit awkward but there is a method by which it all works as expected.

It appears we can't add and connect any new VE Pro 7 client plugins if in the DAW there is already one such plugin that has been connected to the VE Pro Server at least once. But it works ok for me if FIRST I insert ALL the VE Pro 7 client plugins I require BEFORE attempting to connect any of them to the server, and then I connect them.

Also, if a client plugin has been connected and then disconnected, client plugins added subsequently to that connection will not list any server instances unless and until the previously connected client plugin is deleted from the DAW.

(Logic Pro X 10.4.4; MacOS 10.13.6; iMac Retina 5k, 27 inch, 7700K, 2017)

Congratulations and a thousand thanks to the whole team who've brought this splendid new VE Pro 7 to market. While I'm trying out everything (with Logic in a single 5K iMac setup) I notice I have a big silly smile on my face. I feel perfectly comfortable and at home with VSL's product-engineering style, and that means a lot to me as an old pro engineer.

My first impressions of everything new in VE Pro 7 are most favourable. In particular I love the wonderfully convenient automation labelling, the articulation labels in the mixer strips, the new plugin menu organization, the very fine appearance and feel of all the free Vienna Suite plugins on my 5K Retina screen, the colour options, the vertical instance-tabs list option; well, the whole thing is a delight. (Yes it's very early days but for me, first impressions go a long way and are usually an important foundation of how I come to relate to particular products over the long term.)

I'll patiently wait for the full AU3 multi-port functionality, but will try out the provided work-around solutions (and I pray that Apple don't mess it up.)

Very best regards to all at VSL,

Macker

William, thank you for your kind and encouraging words. I've endeavoured to make the Situater as musician-friendly as possible - I too am  averse to geeky systems when it comes to making music! How well or badly I've done in that aspect will no doubt be clear when the Situater is out in the world. 

Michael, no I don't have perfect pitch.

William and David, it's silly of me trying to describe what my Situater system can do before it's released - of course I'm bound to wear my engineer's hat and thereby unwittingly and unwillingly alienate an awful lot of musicians. It's my fault not yours.

The various realms of theory behind Situater can be a bit gnarly and driving the Situater will involve a steep learning curve for new users. Sorry to say the vast majority of today's youngsters who've got to grips with DAWs and synths and plugins etc, don't stand a chance of understanding the Situater because they don't have much if any relevant music theory under their belts. Nevertheless I'm hopeful that the system will not only find use among some composers and musicians but also inspire - or perhaps provoke - new thinking about intonation among developers of DAWs and virtual instruments. It's clear there's interest in the topic in this forum.

I'll try to desist from blathering any more about the Situater until I've put it out there.

Kenneth, I’ll try to summarise how I’ve approached the issues of intonation using my Logic Pro-based system (now provisionally called the Situater). This system generates a 14-bit MIDI pitchbend event to accompany each and every MIDI note-on event for all connected instruments, according to what notes (or more strictly, pitch classes) I want played at each moment. Apart from the built in cast-transposer (see below) it’s all manual, in that I don’t try to second guess or mechanise anything done by the user. It can involve quite a bit of extra work and extra thought, and in this respect I suppose it may sometimes be similar to the case of a harp player who has to plan ahead and determine the pedalling to be used in a piece.

 On my global control panel I first select, say, the “Pure Pythagorean” intonation schema, and then select a preset “cast” of 12 notes that are to be “on stage” until replaced by another cast; each note of the on-stage cast is ready to speak immediately if played either from my MIDI keyboard or from a recorded MIDI region in the DAW sequencer. 

 My system currently can play up to 84 pitch classes in PI, 53-edo, Meantone or Helmholtz, all referred to A. (In 53-edo there are only 53 unique pitch classes and whilst the remainder all have unique names they are aliases of some of the unique 53). For instance, in PI, if the preset cast I select is “relative minor harmonic chromatic” and I have the cast-transposition control set to 0, I’ll have the harmonic chromatic scale of A ready on stage for all voices connected to my system. Thus when I play a chromatic scale on my keyboard, the chosen instrument will speak with the following pitch classes, each tuned precisely in PI:-

 A, Bb, B, C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G#.

 Now let’s say I want to make an excursion into the key of F minor, for which I need the notes of Gb, Db, Ab and Eb instead of the sharps available in the current cast. So on Situater's paneI I alter the cast-transposition control to -4, thus transposing the cast 4 fifths down to the relative minor harmonic chromatic scale of F (same as putting 4 flats in the key signature, although my system can’t respond to key signatures or accidentals in Logic’s score editor). To select this cast transposition remotely I could touch one pedal on my Studiologic MP-117 organ-style pedal keyboard, or hit a key on another MIDI keyboard or a split section of my main keyboard, or use any other kind of MIDI controller. Having “recast” in this manner, I can now play the notes:-

 A, Bb, B, C, Db, D, Eb, E, F, Gb, G, Ab.

 System-wide recasting occurs very quickly but needs to be done at least a tick or so before the required notes are started. Recasting won’t affect notes currently being sustained; any required retuning only takes effect with the next relevant MIDI note-on in each voice.

 If I want to sketch and experiment with non-standard casts, on Situater's panel I can manually set each of the 12 keyboard notes to play any of 7 named enharmonic varieties associated with each keyboard note. Thus for example, I may choose to make A on the MIDI keyboard play any of the following pitch classes:-

 A\\\, A\\, Bbb, A, Gx, A//, or A///, where each back slash or forward slash denotes a comma down or up, respectively.

 I can save any manually constructed cast as a preset, and select any of 127 preset casts using any MIDI controller. Typically however, I tend to use my go to utility cast of the relative minor harmonic chromatic scale, and simply transpose it as required at opportune moments in a piece.

You asked specifically about how I manage vertical sonorities in JI while intoning horizontally in PI. I’ll try to answer in 2 parts:

 1.  I exploit the little known fact that nested within the PI harmonic chromatic scale, there is a complete JI diatonic major scale and a JI diatonic minor (melodic descending) scale. But they’re not perfect JI. The submediant, mediant and leading note of these nested JI major scales are each about 2 cents off what they should be in pure JI. However, they’re not bad at all and can render very nice clean JI major thirds with very little evidence of beating. Moreover, when using the Cycle of 53 intonation schema, which is an extremely light tempering of Pythagorean fifths and practically impossible to distinguish from pure PI, each of these 3 approximate JI notes is significantly closer to pure JI and the result is, to my ear, wonderfully clean. For example, nested in the PI h-chrom scale of Ab we have:- 

 •  JI C major - C, D, Fb, F, G, Bbb, Cb

 •  JI E minor (melodic descending) - E, Gb, G, Bbb, Cb, C, D

 Thus when I need to change a note to JI I choose (or make) a cast that covers both the PI and relevant JI notes. Sometimes, e.g. in certain Wagner compositions, I use a special preset cast-modifier function that helps to reduce the number of recasts required when encountering the need for lots of different JI notes in pretty quick succession.

 2.  Up to now I’ve simply ignored the fact that horizontally, individual part lines may move across non-PI intervals as a result of adjusting vertical harmony to JI here and there. It seems the ear (mine anyway) isn’t bothered by and often doesn’t even notice that certain lower voice progressions may deviate from pure PI intervals immediately before or after a vertical sonority has been beautified by JI during rendition. I think it’s also largely a matter of composition, in that the top melodic line should be kept free of any need for JI adjustments - unless the composer deliberately chooses otherwise, or perhaps doesn’t understand how musicians actually render the written music in ensemble.

 BUT … tchampe pointed out the interesting case in actual practice where the lead melody line happens to fall on the 3rd of a dominant 7th chord, in which the players handling the root and fifth would squeeze their pitches up a bit so as to leave the lead melody’s third pretty much untouched in terms of its (presumably PI) absolute pitch while the whole chord is nevertheless adjusted sonorously into JI. I must experiment with this technique using my system, try to get the hang of it and find out how it sounds.

 One thing I have discovered from my all too few exercises in programming famous orchestral pieces and comparing them (obsessively rigorously) with recordings of the very best performances I can find (typically Berlin Phil or Vienna Phil): the score as written is not necessarily to be taken as gospel. 

William and tchampe, the extensive experience and skills you both have as musicians remain beyond what music technology can emulate accurately. As you both indicate, the intuitive approach of skilled musicians is sacrosanct and of paramount importance, and that's also probably a strong reason why music theorists and technologists over the centuries have had such difficulty in trying to grasp the whole subject of musical performance as a matter of facts and scientific knowledge.

Tchampe, I guess the skills and beauty of harmony in musical performance have been highly important if not pre-eminent in your experience; and yes, the whole concept of the Hermode system certainly puts the beautification of harmony front and centre. And yet, awkwardly and stubbornly, there remains also that equally important matter of melody, which HMT does little to address, and whose often difficult and highly complicated relationship with harmony has been central in music for millennia.

Somewhat ashamedly, I admit my system can't compete with the superb convenience of HMT in dealing with harmony. But I've approached the technological problem of surpassing ET from a different angle.

In my earliest simple experiments with just intonation I loved the harmony but found myself yearning ever more intensely for a way of moving beyond one key. On a 12-note keyboard tuned to JI there's almost no scope for modulation. I didn't want to go down the path of using weird keyboards that have more levers per octave than the usual 12 - history shows that such exotic keyboards have never been widely adopted. Moreover, I found it extremely difficult to concoct good melodies in JI; unlike PI, JI scales simply don't lend themselves very well to clean, attractive and intriguing melodies. That's when I conceived of a system that could modulate easily AND give the sense of going places, all in real time, like orchestras but unlike ET.

For me I suppose the melodic dimension, especially when modulating through different keys or tonal areas - all properly intoned - has become pretty much essential. That's why I don't find HMT completely satisfying: it doesn't handle my desire for melodic beauty, movement and modulation because it hangs on to ET while it takes care of harmony momentarily in JI. My system can intone harmony ('vertically') in JI while maintaining PI for the ('horizontal') melodic lines and direction in the music, but it can involve a rather busy and sometimes awkward process, unlike the completely automatic HMT.

I'm beginning to consider whether I can add my system to HMT and get the best of both worlds. But in any case, thanks to you two gentlemen, I'm reminded not to neglect the beautification of harmony quite so much as I probably have.

(P.S. For those who don't already know, the Hermode Tuning System has been a built-in feature of Logic since Logic Pro 9. Unfortunately however, I believe it works only with the virtual instruments Apple provide with Logic. It's in Project Settings/Tuning.)

Tchampe, thanks so much for the fascinating insights from your experiences as a musician - for me these snapshots and vignettes of actual practice are pure gold. 

I know the Hermode system is limited - it's a nod in the direction of authentic orchestral intonation while remaining anchored to ET. I don't regard HMT as the way forward though I am blown away, as you were, by Mohrlok's tremendous ingenuity and effort.

Yes I agree there are these two things: what happens when real musicians perform together, and what we computer users can or could or might do to emulate live performances with ever more vivid and valid realism. 

As you point out, strings can elude strict analysis while they're cloaked in lush vibrato, and that's probably one good reason why I enjoyed William's wonderful rendition of Praetorius' dance written in 1611 for, essentially, a wind band. And btw, strings have yet another ace up their sleeve - they can also use so-called "expressive intonation" which involves playing somewhat sharp at judicious moments to enhance the emotional narrative.

My professional background is design engineering (mostly classified) but I've also been an ardent dilettante in music for much of my life. I had my "swords to ploughshares" moment back in 2001 when I realised that my new ruby red iMac, with Logic Audio Platinum 3.5, Reason 1 and a few fragments of crude sample libraries, would let me design and implement my old '70s dream of a composer's virtual instrument. This virtual instrument is used with normal 12-note MIDI keyboards yet can play in a huge number of keys (over 80 at last count) and modulate freely between them on the fly, in any of several different intonation schemas. It's undergoing another major redesign right now, but I'm also having to wait for Apple to fix something they recently broke in Logic's Environment that my design depends on. Eventually I intend to make the design freely available to all - first as a (somewhat huge) Logic Environment template. 

I reckon intonation is, if not the final frontier in the computer music revolution, then certainly a biggie in the near future.

Tchampe, if we're to be precise, you might be referring to the "Hermode Tuning System" which requires a special software mechanism in computer based music production.

I'm not aware that orchestras or ensembles of any kind in general usually have the skill to play in ET accurately and reliably without guidance from an ET instrument such as a piano or organ. ET is a mathematical convenience for certain fixed pitch instruments only; very little about it is natural or intuitive or easy to learn for other instrumentalists or singers. Indeed these days when we hear certain pop singers sounding like they've overdosed on tranquillisers or something, I bet you'll find the mix engineers have overdone the ET-based auto-tuning!

I believe I heard the Vienna Philharmonic switch into ET deliberately and sustain it for a minute or so during one of their New Year's day performances several decades ago, but I guess that was merely to show off their superb and almost unmatched virtuosity.

A-Capella singers may execute a multitude of wondrous feats of intonation while performing in ensemble, but I very much doubt if their top melody lines will ever conform to ET, intentionally or otherwise - it's too unnatural and difficult to learn.

But I'd say what you describe is similar to what orchestral players have to do frequently as a normal matter of performance, which is to maintain melodic lines as far as possible in Pythagorean while the supporting parts may here and there have to harmonise in just intonation to certain individual melody notes. 

• Website describing the Hermode Tuning System:

www.hermode.com/index_en.html

• Link to download a pretty lengthy PDF, in which the co-inventer of the Hermode Tuning System, Werner Mohrlok, describes the invention and what led him to invent it.

http://extras.springer.com/2005/978-1-84628-113-6/pdf/hermode.pdf

• Short video tutorial by Kurt Sassmannshaus of violinmasterclass.com, titled "Intonation: Which System to Use When"

https://youtu.be/QaYOwIIvgHg

I'm impressed by how well VSL's library editors have ensured SYzd Appassionata Violins 1 and Violins 2 can play together in unisono without any hint of the dreaded phasing effect (I assume the SVI-20B patches have been somehow derived from the original Appassionata VI-20 samples). Now it's easy to have rich and beautiful Holst-style VERY LARGE strings!

But I've found a fly in the soup: in pizzicato there is noticeable phasing between violins 1 & 2 (patches 51 SVI-20A_Pizz and 51 SVI-20B_Pizz).

Open G usually sounds ok but all notes above it are affected. I've tried using different Humanize presets on each of 1st and 2nd violins sections, such as rise to tune fast on one and fall to tune fast on the other, but even with quite brutal amounts of Humanization on both there is still stubborn evidence of phasing. (btw THANK YOU VSL for the new Humanize feature in Synchron player!)

I appreciate that pizzicato samples offer little scope for smart editing, but fervently hope VSL can find some way of differentiating these violins 1 & 2 pizz samples enough that they don't sound phasey in unisono. In the meantime I guess I'll have to use the tried and trusted transpose and pitch shift trick to work around the problem.

I haven't owned VIPro and VE for long and I'm still learning to drive them; I intend to buy VEPro soon. 

One function that puzzles and irks me is the "Synchronize Control Map" option in VIPro Settings, which according to the VIPro manual should operate on "all VI instances system-wide". It appears VIPro-to-VIPro map sync works across all instances of VIPro inserted directly in my DAW (Logic) instrument strips, and across all VIPro instances in all tabs of VE, but NOT between the DAW-hosted instances and VE-hosted instances of VIPro. I'm not using slave computers.

The same holds true for VI instances; furthermore there seems to be no map sync at all between VI and VIPro instances on any basis.

I'm not bothered about the lack of map sync between VI and VIPro since I probably won't be using VI in the future; but the lack of VIPro-to-VIPro map sync across the DAW-VE boundary is for me somewhat problematic.

Does this same map sync behaviour exist with VEPro6? Is there a way to force true "system-wide" map sync when using VE?

If you’ll forgive me for riding my hobbyhorse again, let me make two vital points about composing with authentic orchestral intonation.

1.  The composer may benefit enormously by hearing proper orchestral intonation (i.e. Pythagorean) while composing - not only after the composition has taken shape, nor even as each and every note is played live by the composer, regardless of which notes are eventually used or discarded, but even before any music has been transfered from inside the composer's head to the outside world. When orchestral intonation is implemented in his technical setup and used habitually by the composer, it may eventually alter the way “the muse” forms  musical ideas before popping them into the composer’s consciousness. A whole new dimension of musical inspiration, inventiveness and engagement may well open up for the composer. Many if not most of the great classical composers spent years with orchestras, either playing or conducting; I don’t doubt that their ears were so well steeped in orchestral intonation that even while writing at their piano they could hear and think and compose in orchestral intonation.

2.  All other things being equal (which they never are!), a composer’s mockup that has proper orchestral intonation will tend to pop out and engage other listeners - such as the producer and director of a movie - in a very special and beneficial way. Then word will get around. As a competitive edge, intonation may well be a game changer.

In considering the following excellent YouTube video by Scott Glasgow, I wondered what difference it might have have made in the blind comparison test if one of the brass libraries had been played using orchestral intonation - I bet it would win hands down, even for listeners with no knowledge or understanding of the differences of intonation between ET and real orchestras. 

https://youtu.be/jYf6SWRrbBQ

- “A video comparison of four different brass sample libraries featuring a section of music by John Williams from Star Wars 7 The Force Awakens "Ren's Theme". 

Maybe someone will do and publish such a test one day - it’s unlikely to be me because I can’t justify buying all the best libraries out there. (I’m not a pro composer nor hoping to be.)

One of the comments posted below this video was:

“Oh jeez... after listening to the original piece, all these libraries sound terrible, to be honest :(”

to which Glasgow replied: 

“yep! can't beat live. maybe I could have spent more time programming but honestly there is no time for that in film scoring... you gotta work quick, so just hire a live orchestra instead!”

Real orchestras have a number of strong advantages over computer mockups, not the least of which - yet, like the elephant sitting in the room, never mentioned - is their traditional intonation.

Sometimes a computer restart is necessary before newly installed AU plugins appear in Logic's AU menus. Worth a try anyway.

Nah, William, my ear says you've nailed it. The amount and variety of humanize is perfect for this particular lighthearted happy go lucky dance piece. Perfect JI can tend to have an austere, aristocratic, cold, unapproachable, unforgiving, inhuman character. The added human factor in this piece makes it rock - exactly as it should.

Love it, William.

I've no knowledge of late Renaissance/early baroque music but it seems to me you've brought this darling piece very much to life. I easily imagined people happily twirling and hopping around the dance floor to this piece back in the day.

I assume you changed the root key to G in the VIPro tuner, because it all seems to hang together quite nicely - even though the serpent player does indeed sound like he's almost off his trolly, LOL.

I ran the piece through Melodyne Studio. Celemony don't claim to be able to analyse polyphonic ensemble pieces, nevertheless the Melodyne analysis generally showed a reasonable match to JI in G major.

One of JI's worst flaws is that the minor triad on the 2nd degree is broken and has to be avoided like the plague. This triad has a "defective fifth" (it's a comma short of the pure perfect fifth) which is grotesque and unusable, and the third is Pythagorean. In this piece Pretorius appears to have avoided using the A minor triad, and I guess composers in his day would all have known not to use a minor triad on the supertonic.

Anyway, it's a really nice, very smart and very enjoyable step back to the simplicity of the early 17th century. Bravo, William.

You're very welcome, William.

VSL's approach to tuning is a welcome baby-step but it's far too localised, requiring an awful lot of tedious chores to use in modern compositions, as you've discovered.

I for one will be lobbying for VSL to centralise their intonation facilities in future versions of VE, VIPro and presumably a future Synchron Pro player. It should at least be possible to apply switchable retunings centrally to all matrices in each instance of VIPro, if not globally to all players in each instance of VE. Ideally it would be global throughout the DAW, like I have in the centrally-controlled intonation subsystem I've designed in Logic's Environment. Apple's built-in global intonation facility in Logic is impossible to control or change on the fly, making it useless for all except simple pop productions - and even then (I think) it works only for the Logic instruments provided by Apple. 

My Logic-based intonation subsystem is intended to be a proof-of-concept experimental prototype, hopefully useful as an aid to DAW and plugin instrument developers in formularising their own proprietary takes on advanced, flexible and slick intonation facilities. I'm also hoping it will be useful to some composers (Logic users) who don't mind experimenting with a prototype (though I have yet to address fully the intricacies of using huge numbers of library channels in slave computers). I intend to provide a free (no-strings-attached) release of the thing next year (assuming Apple have fixed the broken 14-bit MIDI processing in Logic Environment by then!)

Cheers

UPDATE: The "Synchronize scale of all matrices" button works (it didn't seem to work for me when I first tested it but maybe I was doing something stupid). So within each instance of VIPro at least there's no need to copy tuning casts or enter individual note tunings for each of its matrices. However, when this sync button is engaged it's still potentially a big inconvenience to have to duplicate channels in VE just to give each channel a new tuning cast, for each and every tuning cast that's required in a piece. That could easily amount to an awful lot of duplicated matrices in a piece that modulates extensively.