and don´t forget to include the Kontakt stuff in the FAQ, VSL guys. I´m loosing the count for this very question. []

There´s a donationware little app made by a kontakt user at the NI kontakt forum which automatically (just clicking) converts any gig file you choose into a single dimension stuff ready to import in Kontakt and I suppose other gig importing samplers. I bet you will be able to convert that to AKAI, though expect to spend some time reprograming.

Hope this helps.

Interesting, but isn´t Waves S1 a bit too CPU-intensive to apply it to every instrument, in addition to a reverb?


Javier.

PS- pssst Iwan. That was Socrates

As an "easier alternative", we could ask for a performance tool which worked with other samplers, so that we can convert the format ourselves and still not loose what is the most amazing technique so far in the orchestral sampling world...







I mean the performance tool of course, in case you´re still wondering (not enough sleep hours uh?)

Absolutely. I recommend the (free) guide in pdf format at Izotope site on the subject of dithering. Although it comments from time to time about their mastering product (Ozone) there is an amazing amount of interesting info on the subject of dithering.
I was a real ignorant on anything related to this stuff and now I´m an ignorant who understands dithering

Iwan, that would be great. Thanks very much. (I added my name so you
stopped thinkin on Cleopatra ) I´ll wait for your mail.


As for my clicks comment, I hope everybody will be able to understand from my posts that my surprise derives from the fact that, as I said before, I´ve never played a bassoon and never realized the keys made such a noticiable noise. It sounded weird to me. Probably is more realistic, but I couldn´t help to feel weird about it. If I said I didn´t I would be lying!
This being said, hearing the instrument into the orchestra could possibly make me see my mistake.

Maybe the next few bars would show us how it works better []

Javier.

Iwan, in the risk of being considered rude and cheeky by you, I would like to ask you for the midi file you used for the Siedlaczek and Dan Dean versions. (the VSL one would useless to me as I have no performance tool).

I´m programming the bassoon for one of my themes, and I can´t get the legato to sound quite right and your technique sounds very good to me. Maybe your midi file and a couple of notes from you regarding how you did it might help me to improve my "faked legato" technique. Mine sounds a bit too much artificial (specially with winds)

Obviously, if this is asking too much, or you wanna keep any "professional secrets" (if there are any still around) I would totally understand.

On the other hand, if you wanna make my day this is my email adress:




Hopefully I will be able to improve my legato until the day I have the budget to buy VSL.
Thanks.

Javier.

I would also like to hear such a comparative.
Be aware though that King Idiot will soon reply that the best sound depends on the sound you´re after

Hey, it was sooner than expected.

First of all, for anyone iterested, the correct link is http://www.iwanroth-sax.com/text/studio-e.htm"="" target="_blank" title="http://www.iwanroth-sax.com/text/Studio-E.htm">http://www.iwanroth-sax.com/text/Studio-E.htm">http://www.iwanroth-sax.com/text/Studio-E.htm (Iwan added a dot at the end so his url wouldn´t work)

As for the files themselves I´m a bit confused. To my ears the most beautiful one was the Dan Dean version. There was a strange sound coming from the VSL version. Like if something was being hit with every attack of the instrument. Maybe that´s product of something which happens in the real life bassoon but it made it sound a bit choppy in my humble opinion.
As realistic as this strange sound could be I don´t hear it in any real orchestra (if it´s there I don´t notice it).
Wait...I just noticed the same sound at the end of the Dan Dean version. I then understand it has something to do with the mechanism of the instrument...but it seems a bit exaggerated on the VSL version. Or maybe it´s how the real deal is supposed to sound. I don´t know, I have never been in a room with a bassoon (well, just in live concerts as an spectator).

So my novice opinion is ...does the VLS version sound more realistic? probably. Does it sound more musical? not to my ears.

I don´t want to crucify you (sorry )

I just want to hear Stravinsky´s "Rite of Spring" conducted by Mr.Iwan Roth, and performed by the VSL orchestra.

(If you are unsure about any part I could scan for you parts of the score for this one. I have one of those useful conductor´s book with all the instruments)

I would also like someone giving a try to Bernard Herrmann. I really dig his music...His soundtracks for "North by Northwest" or "Vertigo" are as inspiring as music can get

Besides, from my lack of expert knowledge I would say those ratios would vary hugely from a lot of different factors, such as kind of reverb, and different settings on the reverb.

LMAO!

What a puny attempt...

Ok, but you don´t record the final composition with it, do you?


neener,neener,neener

Although he brings a good point, I think there´s a self-question that settles the topic:

"If you had the money/resources would you record with a live orchestra instead of using sample libs?"

I think the answer would be "yes" even for the VSL crew. (don´t quote me on this though )

Before some mod closes this post, I must say I found pretty weird that there wasn´t any polemic threads before. That, gentlemen, is as natural as using the keyboard, an as long as we all keep our education the solution will always be as good as in this time.

It´s though reassuring for us rookies watching how not even breakthrough designers such as Herb or wonderfully talented musicians such as Iwan are free of comitting mistakes now and then []

The point here Iwan, is that, precisely for your privilegued musical talent, specially when we´re referring to wind or brass instruments, your opinion DOES count a lot for newbies like me (even more when you live in Spain! nothing less! ), so that´s why I will dare to ask you to be specially touchy when critizicing that kind of instruments. I mean, I´m sure your ear is specially sensitive for that kind of stuff, and probably that makes you having the bar a bit too high ("el listón muy alto" we say in Spain). I understand you want the highest level from this lib (herb too) but you have to understand that what would make you say "soso" for a sax, would probably carry me to the 7th sky []

Anyway, just wanted to point this. Glad it all ended fine.

not to offend but does people new to a board even bother to read old posts before posting their doubts?

To Admins and mods: you´re going to have to make a "sticky" thread with an elementary FAQs or we´ll get this very post every other day, along with "what´s the difference between the Orchestral Cube and the Performance Set?".

EDIT: I want to clarify, this post isn´t specifically directed againt Manoloco, just in case someone understand it that way. I edited it somewhat (though the original content was far from rude) and private excuses are going its way just in case. Least thing I want is to make anybody feel bad.
I still think a FAQ would be a good idea.

I think you should go the other way round. Decide which sample libs you want to use and then decide your soft sample according to that.

In this case if you want to buy VSL you should think Giga or EXS.

It´s just logical IMHO. I mean, as time passes, you´re going to spend much more money in sample libs than in a given soft sampler...

ROFL Martin.

now that this comes into topic. How´s the correct way to do that (blend with two different midi tracks). What I usually do is just copy the track and apply different channels (i.e sounds) to each one an then delete the notes that I don´t want on each channel. Is this how everybody is doing it?

wow. That sounds great Iwan. Congrats.

Let me give ya my rookie opinion. Those brass as mentioned were truly excellent. Very lifelike. I could tell the trumpet player was called Harry, so close he seemed to be

Now, unless my memory fails I also recall hearing this piece with a horn instead of a trumpet, so yeah, there must be an alternative orchestration for this.

The only thing that worried me is the strings for one reason. The sound is ok to me, but the attack seems a bit delayed, specifically at 1:10 was a bit too noticiable for me. Also at the very end chords they sounded a bit sinthy. I was looking for this because it´s a problem quite common for me with other libs.
But as you said, it could also be that you don´t have enough experience with VSL yet.

Good job.

I think at the heart of this discussion (as it already has been mentioned)lies the archetypical prons and cons of virtual orchestration:

-On one side perfect notation and strict musical language, but with cold-like-the-North-pole performances
-On the other hand a more programming-oriented solution, less musician-oriented but with added expresiveness and some extent of real-time playing.

I don´t think it´s possible to separate these two paths. Any try to automatize the expresiveness part will result in less control or simply a failure IMHO.

Currently I´m more on the line(which a lot of people here will surely dislike) of coming from the notation app, and edit everything by hand,not even using the MIDI keyboard. I understand that, had I own the VSL performance tools (which I don´t) it would sound like some sort of heresy, but I absolutely have to agree with the mentioned keyboard manierisms comment. And the worst part is that the better you play the keyboard, the harder is not to play everything in a piano-way.
I find this "microediting after notation" method gives me the ultimate control, though it really asks of a special way of thinking if any "human touch" is to be added.

That´s my personal point of view, of course. Different people, different experiences. And above all, I consider myself a real novice in this field, so please don´t take my opinion as real know-hows.

didn´t I see a photo of Mr.Zimmer buying VSL at the NAMM pics? (and speaking with a genius? *wink,wink*)

like here?:

http://vsl.co.at/images/namm/17_hans4.jpg"="" target="_blank" title="http://vsl.co.at/images/namm/17_hans4.jpg">http://vsl.co.at/images/namm/17_hans4.jpg">

I like his black shirt. Bet it´s pretty expensive. []

I like how Hans Zimmer seems to be 100% aware of the music technology edge. One would think it might be a bit easy to get lost when you´re "up there". I think he´s a great example to those of us who got into music playing an electric guitar in our room and recording in a poor 4-track recorder. I´ll stop this senseless rambling right now and blah,blah...

yeah. In my mind, a great company gives a great support and hears its actual or even potential customers.
This site REALLY delivers.

Nice. That´s pretty informative, if a bit general.

But it does help here.

ABSOLUTELY!
I almost forgot to state it!. Aren´t we talking about sound quality here? Nothing less tan 192 kbps should be use for demos. At 128 I can tell they´re loosing a lot. It´s VERY noticiable. Please fix that, excellsious VSL people