Hi,

I'm working on the Prelude to Act III of Wagner's Tristan und Isolde. The right music for these times!

Wagner - Tristan/Isolde, Act III, Prelude

It's all old VI, with MIR as the reverb. I went for Teldex for its transparency. All made in Dorico, as an exercise, but also as a way of working fitting better my habits. And a nice way to analyze the score!

I'm trying to make it as realistic as possible. One aspect that I'm not yet satisfied is how the solo violoncello and viola sound. Maybe I should equalize them so that they sound warmer, not brighter. Also, maybe I should move them more out of the ensemble in the MIR space, so that they sound more separate.

Paolo

Hi,

When both Velocity and matching CC data are received by the Synchron Player, the On button of the Velocity X-Fade control turns red.

What does this mean? Is there an error that has to be fixed?

Paolo

Hi,

A favorite of mines has always been Native Instrument's VariComp. This compressor/limiter simulates a Manley Variable Mu device, an improved version of the glorious Fairchild 660/670 often found in the old recording studios specialized in classical music.

A beautiful feature of this plugin is that you can choose to make it either transparent or tubey-fat, depending on the level of the input. The ease of making parallel compression is another favorite of mines.

The Compressor Pro and Limiter Pro included in VEP7 (and Vienna Suite) are however much more transparent tools. Compressor has a Fat option, making the sound bigger (by apparently increasing the low frequency content), but with not perceivable distortion.

Not only that, but I find that the VSL preserves the natural depth and details of the original sound, while the VariComp doesn't. Even with the most transparent settings, low-volume sounds like the bow touching the strings disappears; with the VSL, it is still there, and the result is increased realism and depth.

At the same time, in some cases one can prefer the fatter, less 'honest' image offered by the VariComp, if that is the type of sound one is after.

You can check yourself in these two versions of the same piece, starting from the same original. No Exciter used – the VSL image is airier by itself.

Holst on VariComp

Holst on VSL Compressor Pro and Limiter Pro

Paolo

Has someone already said 'Yay!"? Ok, I’ll do it for you!

Bravo Dietz!

Paolo

Beautiful, Jerry! Colorful and always compelling! Great orchestration, as usual!

Paolo

Very true, William. I'm impressed by the homogenous quality of these players. Strong, full, round. Lyrical and massive at will. Among the best instruments of the full collection.

Paolo

It's really a great piece! Full of impetus, airy without losing gravity.

(And I hope it is not disrespectful, after watching at the video, that the Maestro reached new heights with this piece…)

Paolo

Hi,

Just for fun, I tried to reproduce with BBO a very short example made by others with a different (and fantastic) library. I used Regulus, Solaris, all the brass (and will later try adding cymbal rolls from one of the percussion libraries in the series).

It's not 100% overlapping with the original, and the sound character is different. Not all the clusters and harmonics can be made identical. But the effect is similar, and maybe can work as well.

Space texture test

(Oh, how I miss woodwind harmonics…)

Paolo

I wouldn't personally like a fake-wood simulated console from VSL. They have great design ideas, with a "future-is-now" feel that I find at the same time enjoying and functional. Following the style of the Synchron Player would work great, for me. Pastel colors, easy accessibility, stylish and effective.

But I admit to find that the way a traditional organ works is a smart way. Modern synthesizers are nothing than the heirs of these big instruments with separate additive-synthesis patches that can be memorized into quick-select presets. So, the concept can be easily moved to a modern user interface.

The Konzerthaus Organ is recorded in a reverberant hall: in a way, it is more current than other libraries of that era. It deserves to be kept as a peer next to the Synchron collection.

Paolo

You are right, Paul. Pick the one whose sound better fits that particular role.

Paolo

Hi,

I know this is a fussy question, but I really have to ask it…

In Dimension Brass, does it make any difference whether one uses Horn P2 or P3 as II or III, or they are completely interchangeable? I guess any of your players can excel in any range, but maybe you went so deep to also pick the right one for the role…

Paolo

Hi,

I'm using the MIDI Activity Focus in VEP7, with several instances and channels loaded.

When selecting notes in Dorico, I hear the sound and see the meters, but the focus doesn't change immediately. I have to play five or six notes from that staff, before VEP moves the focus to the instance and channel corresponding to that staff.

Is this how it is expected to work? It seems a bit odd to me, but maybe there is a valid reason. If it is to prevent the focus to changing too fast, maybe just a couple notes could be enough before switching.

Paolo

I must have missed something. Are VI libraries no longer supported, and we are forced to use Synchron ones?

Paolo

...all the above, doesn't exclude that a refresh of the Konzerthaus organ software, with a dedicated player, would be more than welcome!

Paolo

I have it, but I don't use it. However, I’ve seen that you can with relative ease build any control console you want with TouchOSC:

https://hexler.net/products/touchosc

I've discovered that physical consoles for Hauptwerk start from very reasonable prices. I could be tempted!

Paolo

Hi,

I wonder if when using all Synchron libraries, with all the room mics and the algorithmic reverb turned on, a final 'smoothing' reverb is still needed. Is the algo reverb in each of the Synchron Players doing already the same, or something applied at the same time to all the instruments is still needed/recommended?

Paolo

I have used Vienna Ensemble to create mixtures. Assign a different register to each VE channel. All registers/channels for a manual go to the same Midi channel. Each manual can be grouped into a separate VE instance. Then, use the Mute buttons in VE to turn the various registers on or off.

Paolo

Hi,

When trying to insert an integrated effect in an input channel in VEP7, I can only see a limited number of the integrated effects. How can I also access the missing ones (Analyzer Pro, Compressor Pro, Equalizer Pro, Surround Balance Pro, Surround Pan Pro)?

VEP7 is inserted as a VEPro Audio Input in Logici 10.4.8. The plugin is stereo.

Paolo

EDIT: Solved. I rescanned the plugins, and the missing internal ones reappeared.

I like sampled pianos: you can fix things that you can't in the real world!

Paolo

(By the way: am I wrong, or MIR is not exactly performing bad, in this comparison?)

Hi,

I noticed that the F1 note, at very low dynamics, have an annoying resonance in the new Bösendorfer Imperial. Maybe there is a way to remove them from the original sample?

Paolo

Thank you for the hint, Dietz. The bare Synchron version really sounds more natural, and narrowing the stereo width seems to really place it better in the orchestra. Synchron Stage and Teldex are quite compatible, so the differences should be masked relatively well.

Here is a first experiment with the two option, piano-only. One is the BI as is, minus the algo reverb replaced by the general MIRacle applied to the full orchestra. The second one are the Condenser and Mid 1 mics of the BI, plus MIR (generic profile modified) with the Teldex selected. I increased the volume of the secondary mics, to simulate the Decca tree, and chose the Air character for the room.

Disclaimer: this is not a finished mockup, but just mostly raw notes and a few strokes of interpretation.

Rach2-BI-Synchron

Rach2-BI-MIR_Teldex

Paolo

I've another question about mixing a piano with an orchestra: should I choose the Concert, or the Close preset as a starting point in the piano? I can't understand what corresponds to the mic arrangement simulated by MIR. I would suggest Concert, since in a room like the Teldex or the Grosser Saal the default main mics position is that of a listener in the hall.

Paolo

Hi,

I was hoping not to like the new Bösendorfer Imperial and send it back, but I had unfortunately to discover that it is the greatest piano, and I’m already in love with it.

So, I’m trying to mix it with the VI libraries in MIR. This experiment will also be useful when mixing the BBOs with the VIs.

The most obvious room choice would be Synchron Stage Wide, but I decided to go on with the room I’m currently preferring for classical orchestral pieces: the Teldex.

In MIR, I placed the piano just in front of the main mics, and set the width and level to match its image with MIR bypassed. I turned the RoomMix off, and adjusted the Condenser, Mid 1 and Decca mics to make the unprocessed piano fit in the room.

What I noticed is this: 

- With MIR bypassed, the piano is incredibly realistic and natural sounding. I tend to prefer this sound.

- With MIR activated, and a room different than the same recorded with the piano, the piano image is made a bit artificial. Still sounding great, but less open, more flattened. At the same time, it is much easier to make it fit with the other instruments. Reducing the wet signal for the piano greatly helps finding a good balance between natural and correctly positioned.

Is there some hint, for cases like the above? I would like to keep the room mics in the mix, to improve the depth of the piano sound. But I would also like it to match any other rooms, without sounding artificial.

Paolo

Great piece, William! Both the epic and lyrical parts are very effective, and there is a very visual, very narrative sense of musical flowing.

Thank you for the score!

Paolo