EDIT: Accidental double post.

Originally Posted by: Errikos

...the arpeggiator...

The arpeggiator?  For orchestral sample libraries?  Or was this all hybrid-synth kind of music?

Originally Posted by: William

What I would do in your situation is make up names and even identities of performers for the VSL chamber music recordings, and then submit them. If they were accepted it would be WONDERFUL to have them played - and then tell the fools at that station it was all MIDI. 

I went to college to study acting.  The program was rigorous and entire semesters were devoted to the messy, painful business of auditioning and getting roles out in the "real world".  For school productions, workshops, final exams, etc. we had to have anywhere from five to ten different monologues memorized to showcase our expressive range (Despite the fact that almost all auditions in the "real world" are cold readings, but I digress...)  The faculty insisted that these monologues had to not only be from already published, reputable plays but that these plays had to be original, new works that no one had heard of lest they hear the same, tired, cliche monologues over and over again.  This led to myself and all the other students wasting countless hours in the dusty library combing anthologies and hoarding new play collections in order to find that "one elusive monologue".

Naturally, I got reallllllyyyy sick of meeting these arbitrary demands, especially when auditions are about examining the actor, not the material.  When I asked my professors why we had to do this, they simply replied, "Casting agents and directors want to hear reputable material, not just any old thing."  I decided to put this to the test: the night before my next audition, I wrote my own damn monologue that perfectly fit what I was trying to showcase about myself, made up an author, publishing house, etc., and went into the audition and presented it as if it were "reputable", published material.  I got the part, had a wonderful time doing the show, and after closing night I informed the director (who had cast me based on that "published" monologue) that I had completely made it up.  I expected her to be furious, but instead she laughed and said, "Well, you got the part, and that's all that matters!"

Long story short: I think William might be on to something...

(On the other hand: My experience was in the closed setting of academia.  I have no idea if there would be any legal - or other - repercussions for doing something like this...)

Paul (and, by extension, VSL),

Thank you for offering these demo licenses!  I just purchased the brass packs.  I was uncertain at first, but being able to try them out extensively was really, really helpful.  I wouldn't have bought them otherwise.

I'm encouraged by the "try before you buy" model!  Are you planning on doing this with other libraries of yours as well?

- Sam

Originally Posted by: Dietz

d 1.: The good news first: The mutual interaction between individual Icons happens on a purely acoustical level, due to the typical amplification of certain frequency ranges, while other frequencies will cancel out or increase the perceived width according to the phase and runtime of the surrounding IRs. In other words: As long as you use identical settings for different instances of MIR in two independent VI Frames, the result will be the same as the sound you would get from a single instance.

Excellent!  Thank you!

Originally Posted by: Dietz

But I'm fully aware of the problem - which is why I implemented a workaround for those cases were we absolutely need to listen to the Secondary Mic in solo: At the bottom of the list of my Factory Presets for the Main Mic you find three "MUTE" entrances. Choosing one of those will of course trigger the re-rendering of all Icon's impulse responses, but when things are done you can in fact listen to the Secondary Microphone's output.  ... just don't forget to save the settings you've made for the Main Mic before! ;-)

I have no clue how I missed those presets.  I blame too much coffee.  I just A/B'ed using those MUTE presets and I have a much clearer idea of what the second mic array is bringing to the table.  What an indispensable feature. 

Based on what you wrote about how MIR pre-renders IRs, I'm guessing being able to assign Room EQs to the mic arrays (as opposed to instruments) separately is out of the question...but if it's not, consider it requested :-)  Also, is it possible to implement sending the main and secondary mic arrays to separate buses in VEP7?

Dietz,

1) If I create two or more instances in VEP7, set their MIR venues and settings to exactly the same thing, but have different instruments in them (i.e. one for Strings, one for Brass, etc.), will that result in the same sound as having all the instruments in one instance of VEP7?  In other words, does MIR simulate the interaction between instruments in such a way that splitting them up across multiple, identical VEP7 instances would be a bad idea?  I couldn't find anything in the manual that indicates this would be a problem, but I wanted to ask you to be sure.

2) I read somewhere on these forums that there's a MIR Pro update planned sometime in the future.  Very exciting!  I'd like to make a feature request, then: could you implement the ability to Solo the output of the Secondary Mic and, perhaps, the individual capsules of the main microphone array?  A feature like this, if possible, would probably help users like myself get a better grasp - by solo-ing and listening - to how the granular manipulations of the main and secondary mic arrays are effecting both the wet and dry signal.

Thanks!

- Sam

I've finished re-doing and expanding the presets and banks.  As such, I've updated the original post.  Scroll up and take a look!

(UPDATED: June 22, 2020)  (X-Post from Vienna Instruments Forum)

Hello REAPER users,

I've created a comprehensive set of Reaticulate banks and matching presets for a wealth of VSL's libraries.  

For those unfamiliar with Reaticulate, it's a brilliant articulation management system for VSTs created for use in REAPER.  With this brilliant little script, you can make the process of programming the hundreds of articulations on offer in VSL's libraries extremely straightforward and efficient.  The files I have included should help you do just that!

To learn more about Reaticulate, check out this website.

WHAT'S ATTACHED TO THIS POST:

There are two sets of files you'll need:

1. Custom presets for the VI/Synchron VSTs
2. The Reaticulate.reabank text file that contains the data Reaticulate uses to load the articulation lists.

HOW TO USE THIS STUFF:

1. Extract the custom presets to the folders where you keep your presets for VI or Synchron.  The presets I've created have (RT) after their names to help keep them distinguished from other presets you might have.
2. Do one of two things:
1. If you don't have any other Reaticulate banks set up, simply drag and drop the Reaticulate.reabank file included into the /Data/ folder of your Reaper directory.
2. If you DO have other Reaticulate banks, open up the one I've attached and copy and paste whatever you need from my reabank file to yours.
3. In REAPER, load up whatever instruments you need and then load up the corresponding Reaticulate bank in the Reaticulate plugin window.  To illustrate what I mean, I'll give you an example.  Let's say you want to load up Bassoon I:
1. Make sure you load up the correct preset (the custom RT preset).
2. Make sure you load up the bank with the same name.
3. Make some music!  Open the Bank/Program Select CC lane in the midi editor, select whatever notes you want to "map" the articulation to, and right click on the articulation.  Here's what it might look like.

(Note: I won't go into the details of how to set up Reaticulate on this post.  You can find that info on Reaticulate's website.  However, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask!)

HOW THE ARTICULATIONS ARE ORGANIZED

You'll notice a "Sketch" bank available in the VSL - GENERAL folder.  I've set up all the presets so that their common articulations that are shared across all instruments will correspond with this articulation list.  This way, you can quickly sketch basic melodies or rhythms and switch instruments in and out.  (NOTE: Only works with the VI libraries!)

The lists are enormous, since there are tons of articulations.  I didn't include EVERY articulation, but I tried to be as thorough as possible.  The most useful and flexible articulations (like the performance intervals) are located at the top of the lists, while the pre-recorded phrases are located at the bottom so as to minimize the amount of scrolling needed.  As much as I could manage, the icons, colors, and naming conventions are consistent across all instruments.

Since these are presets I made mainly for my own use, the controller mappings are tailored to my specific set-up.  However, it should be relatively simple for you to change them to your liking by copying and pasting controller mappings as needed.  If you need help or advice on how to do this, let me know and I'd be happy to help!

LIBRARIES COVERED BY THESE PRESETS/BANK FILES

(Note: The presets and banks are designed to work with the Full version of the VI libraries, but that doesn't mean these presets can't work with the Standard versions; certain articulations simply won't activate.)

VI LIBRARIES (Full):

• STRINGS - Solo Strings I & II, Chamber Strings I & II, Orchestral Strings I & II, Appassionata Strings I & II, Solo Violin II, Solo Cello II
• BRASS - All Solo Instruments, All Ensembles (EXCEPT Dimension Brass)
• WOODWINDS - All Solo Instruments, All Ensembles, Recorders
• KEYBOARDS - Konzerthaus Organ, Prepared Piano, Harmonium, Harpsichord
• PERCUSSION - Percussion (Full), Elements
• VOICES - Vienna Whistler

SYNCHRON LIBRARIES: 

• SYN-zed DIMENSION STRINGS - Vols I-III
• SYN-zed DIMENSION BRASS - Vols I-II
• SYN-zed Appassionata Strings
• SYN-zed Solo Strings

---------

I hope these presets and articulation lists help all of you as much as they've helped me.

Enjoy!

- Sam

I'm guessing it's because the Bosendorfer has more total mic positions than the CFX.

EDIT: And, perhaps, the extended bottom range?

Hey REAPER users,

Attached to this post is a blank orchestral template for use in REAPER pre-configured to route properly to VEP7.  I've included both a project template and a track template for download.

The template consists of one track with the Vienna Ensemble Pro 7 Server Plugin (VST3i) and over 100 tracks with their MIDI routed to that "master" track.

The tracks are organized and color coded into five folders: Woodwinds, Brass, Percussion, Strings, and Miscellaneous.  Each folder contains 32 tracks that route their MIDI directly to the Ensemble plugin.  Woodwinds contains tracks that send MIDI on Bus 1 and 2, Brass on Bus 3 and 4, etc. etc.

The tracks are named after the Bus and Channel they send, so matching the tracks to VEP7 is as simple as setting the VEP7 tracks to the corresponding Bus (called a Port in VEP7) and Channel number.  For example: Track 4/13 (found under the Brass folder) will correspond with whatever tracks in VEP7 are set to MIDI port 4 and Channel 13.

The idea behind this template is to load it up, set up whatever instruments you need, and then hide or delete any tracks you aren't using.  It should also be noted that the folders serve only an organizational function - they don't send or receive any MIDI or Audio.

Hope this helps anyone looking for a quick solution to routing REAPER to VEP7!

- Sam

Originally Posted by: Rellek

Thank you for your original post Sam.

I was close to pulling my hair out over this.

Many thanks!   

You're welcome!  Glad to have helped.

With VI Brass I, you are getting the same *sound* of the brass ensembles you have in your SE, but with a plethora of new (and incredibly useful) articulations.  

With Dim. Brass SE, you're getting a *new* ensemble sound to layer in, plus the humanized and divisi-friendly functionality of the dimension series.

With the BBO Brass Packs, you're getting brand new, in-situ, multi-mic libraries that - due to the multiple mics - can grant easy depth and spaciousness to the sound.

If what you're looking for is a new ensemble sound to add to your layering rather than expanding your range of available articulations, I would recommend Dim. Brass or BBO Brass packs since they are different ensembles from the ones you already have.

EDIT: I forgot to mention Fanfare Trumpets and Epic Horns.  Both are bigger, separate ensembles that can be layered with your existing trumpet or horn ensembles/solos. They will *definitely* give you a bigger sound.

willie45:

If you want to disable the IR, reverb, and panning and work with just the dry sample, go to the Mix tab, open the Preset drop-down, and select "default", as shown in the attached picture.

Extended low range with per-key EQ?

Done.

Originally Posted by: Dietz

This is important to make sure that MIR hanldes the stereo width correctly in relation to the source's distance to the Main Microphone.You will have to make an educated guess yourself when adjusting the MIR Icon's stereo width on a stage. - This won't cause real problems for the close-miked solo cello talked about (one or two meters will do, most of the time), but it's certainly something to keep in mind for larger ensembles.

Very good to know!  I'll play around with adjusting the S1 Imager's width with the larger, choir ensemble and see how MIR interprets the different widths.  Hopefully it will be as simple as "if it's an ensemble, make it wider in S1", but are things ever that simple? :)

Originally Posted by: Dietz

Errrr .... I'm not sure that I understand the question correctly. 8-) Judging from your wording it seems that you mis-take the sound emanation patterns shown in the General Purpose Profiles as microphone characteristics. That's not the case - actually it's exactly the other way 'round: These patterns try to give you a visual idea how the sound dispersion of the source signal will take place in relation to the Icon's main axis (i.e. the volume handle, a.k.a. "the player's nose" ;-) ...). They tell nothing about mic capsules.

The default cardioid pattern might be a good choice for many sources (lots of sound to the front, less to the sides, the top and the bottom, almost nothing towards the back). Still it's a good idea to give other General Purpose Profiles a try for less (or even no) directivity of the source signal's sound, or maybe more directivity when you want to high-ligtht certain aspects of the Venue, e.g. distinctive reflections from a side-wall, to increase the perceived depth of the space.

You're correct, I misinterpreted what the General Purpose profile's names are alluding to.  I thought, because of their names, they were meant to be some kind of microphone simulation.  Now that I think about it, that doesn't make much sense, as you don't need to simulate a sample set that is...well, recorded with a microphone :)  It makes much more sense that they refer to the simulated directivity of the source signal.  I'll try slapping more directive profiles on the sopranos and wider profiles on the basses (given the directivity of treble and bass frequencies) and see what that does!  

Thanks, as always, for the clarification and help!  I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future; this program is a godsend, but it's also teaching me more about recording and acoustics than I ever thought I'd delve into...

- Sam

Dietz,

I'm importing both a live-recorded Cello and a non-VSL sample library (choir) into MIR Pro.  The Cello was close-mic'ed already, but the panning was off.  I turned on the choir library's spot mic (dry enough) but that one's panning was all wonky as well.

As per your instructions on a different thread from some time ago, I used Waves' S1 Imager plugin to get the panning correct in both cases.  However, a few questions rose up:

1) Once I've got the symmetry fixed in the S1 Imager, should I leave the Width control at 1.00 or change narrow/widen it at all?  How will that effect how MIR Pro handles its own width control?

2) When assigning the General Purpose mics to these signal sources in MIR Pro, should I try to match it as much as possible to the microphone that the original source material used?  Why or why not?

Thanks in advance!

- Sam

Originally Posted by: 144067

(Will I see the most benefit to use it with the saxophones?)

Absolutely.  The humanize settings will help you create (and automate) varying amounts of detuning to note attacks.  The time stretch-feature will allow you to alter the length of the pre-recorded crescendo and decrescendos to fit your music.  The interval map feature will allow you to automate the process of adding slight detuning to short notes that is direction-sensitive (slide-up if the interval is up in pitch, and vice versa).

If you really want to get in-depth, for example, you can combine speed-detection, time-stretching, interval mapping, and humanizing all in one and create a matrix that allows you to play a short articulation and have the articulation subtly slide-up or slide-down depending on which direction you're playing AND play progressively shorter/truncated versions of the articulation depending on how fast you're playing.

It's a good tool :)

- Sam

To everyone who's commented and downloaded:

I'm glad you find these files useful!  REATICULATE makes complicated programming with VSL (and any VST, really) in REAPER so damn easy.  

Over the next week or so, I will be going through, cleaning up, and updating these files.  I've a few new libraries to add (like SYN-zed Solo Strings) and some changes to how the articulations are organized in the presets based on new updates to Reaticulate and personal tweaks I've made over months of use.  I'll post the updates to this thread and the SYN forum as well when I've finished!

- Sam

Stephen,

Thanks again for taking the time!  All your advice is extremely helpful and I will definitely take it into account as I continue to experiment and practice.

Sincerely,

- Sam

I'll continue to breath :)  Should you record the venue, count me in as a customer.

- Sam

Originally Posted by: jasensmith

Depends on the size of the ensemble.  If it's, say a string quartet or quintet, then I won't quantize anything.  Also, I'm a pianist by training so anything I do on the piano is never quantized.  But if it's a large ensemble piece like a 100 piece orchestra then yes I quantize because even slight rhythm inconsistancies will be amplified and the human ear will detect it.  It's the fluctuations in tempo, like slowing down slightly at the end of melody line which players do naturally, that make the piece sound more natrual.

Good to know, thank you.  Notes taken, knowledge absorbed.

- Sam

Originally Posted by: stephen limbaugh

So, this kind of gets into personal philosophy about programming.  Personally, I view the computer and MIDI controller as an instrument to be technically mastered.  The ultimate proficiency should be a guy like Daniel Barenboim, a guy who can conduct/rehearse a top orchestra and also sit down and play the entire Beethoven piano sonata cycle.  Except in the case of "programming" your "conducting" is laying out the session and your performing is your fingers on the keyboards and mod wheel.

I like that philosophy; it jives with my own evolving view that the DAW and all these tools/plugins can be considered modular parts of a giant, complex musical instrument...an "imagination realizer", if you will :)

Originally Posted by: stephen limbaugh

1. The most important thing is the RHYTHM of the passage.  If you can get the feel of the gesture, but miss most of the notes, just go in and arrow up or down the notes to the correct pitches.
2. Think about which notes of a gesture should be emphasized.  If it's a scale, generally it's last note, especially if it ends on a strong beat.  Adjust the velocities of velocity cross-fade so there's a little crescendo in there.
3. Use two hands and go back and ride the velocity cross fade in a second pass.
4. If you are using VI Pro, search through some of the pre-made scales in the APP Sequencer.  Often times you can adjust the notes in the sequencer and it still sound really convincing.
5. If there is a percussive hit at the end of the run from other instruments, edit the midi so that everyone is playing really close together!

Solid gold.  Thank you for taking the time to help me out.  #1 is especially useful; it makes a lot of sense to capture the human rhythmic feel live above all else as other factors (velocity, expression, pitch, etc.) can be easily altered after the fact.

Another thought occured to me: it may be useful, in cases where semi-strict rhythmic to strict rhythmic accuracy is needed during difficult passages, to briefly turn the grid on - not to snap or quantize to, but to use as a visual guide to subtly adjust potentially sloppy live playing.  Once adjusted, the grid could be turned off and the entire phrase can then be moved around freely and fit to the rest of the music by ear.  Something to experiment with, certainly...

One more question for you, if I may.  You mention velocity crossfading.  I know there are differing opinions on this, but I'd like to hear yours: do you recommend tying Expression and Velocity X-Fade together on one controller, doing one OR the other, or just using Velocity X-Fade to modulate dynamics?  I know that the timbral shift that occurs in Brass and Winds during crescendos and what not is not simply "raising the volume", but there are noticable jumps in between velocity layers for certain instruments, especially the solo VI libs.  Any recommendations here?

Thanks again!

- Sam

Very good food for thought, Dewdman.  Thanks so much for taking the time to explain all of that to me!  I think you just saved me a lot of frustration and trial-and-error in the coming years.  I'll keep all that in mind as I experiment and practice MIDI sequencing.

Cheers!

- Sam

Originally Posted by: Headlands

Originally Posted by: Seventh Sam

Also, there's a little obscure pair of settings that might be the culprit of Bus 2 and beyond are not working.  Do the following:

- Open the Ensemble Pro Server FX window in REAPER.  Make sure you are using the VST3i version of the Ensemble Pro Plugin.  As far as I'm aware, Ports/Buses beyond #1 won't work in REAPER unless it's VST3 (this might have been fixed in REAPER 6).

- Click on the button in the top right part of the window that says something like "2/64" out.  It will open a window with a grid.

- On that new window, click the small button that says I/O, again in the top right.  You'll get a drop down menu.

- In that menu, you need to change a few settings.  They are:

• Midi Input -> Map REAPER MIDI Buses to VST3 MIDI Buses
• Midi Output -> Map VST3 MIDI Buses to REAPER MIDI Buses

Make sure both those are checked.  Once they are, Buses 2 and up will interact correctly with Ensemble Pro, allowing you to have 256 separate instruments in a single Ensemble Pro instance.  Yay!

THAT was it - I had forgotten about that. Thank you again good sir.

No worries.  I guess the trade off for REAPER's flexibility is the interface is a little...unintuitive :)

I recommend saving those settings into a track template so you never have to deal with it again.

- Sam

Originally Posted by: jasensmith

Originally Posted by: Seventh Sam

Hey all, A question for anyone with an answer: When sequencing orchestral type music using VSL (or any other VST's, for that matter), do you stay on the grid and let the computer "conduct" the orchestra (using tempo mapping to create rhythmic fluidity) or do you un-snap from the grid, ignore quantization completely and play the lines in yourself, using your own sense of rhythm to "conduct" the orchestra? .

Yes. All the above. I play most of my compositions on my keyboard then end up going back and quantizing most of what I played. Back in the day, you used to have to play sloppily then automate the tempo, then slightly fiddle with the tuning using a wide variety of articulations to try and achieve a natural sounding performance. Nowadays I still fluctuate the tempo but thanks to the miracles of VSL humanization and repetition performances those other processes can be automated and randomized. If you have VI Pro you can use the humanization feature in conjunction with the bigger full size libraries to automate much of what we did back in the day manually. If you don't have VI Pro then you'll have to do everything manually which can be quite laborious and painstaking.

I do have VI Pro, so no worries there.  You mention that you don't always quantize.  When you do, is it to correct errors in your playing or to keep everything in a strict rhythm?  When you play, are you consciously emulating the fluid rhythm inherent in orchestral conducting or are you playing with the idea that you're going to quantize to a strict grid at the end of the day?