Logic’s Remote Settings are far superior to any other DAW’s implementation, (with DP11 a close second). Logic’s remote modes, (Permanent, Momentary and Toggle - with Trigger and Retrigger), combined it’s Keyswitch View is the gold standard in remote control. The rest of Articulation Sets needs serious work, but they got the Remote section right. 

Chunks and Vracks are killer features for sure, are are the reasons I can’t leave DP. Same for Clippings. What you can do with clippings is surprising. DP11, overall, is, IMO still the best MIDI editor (when combined with VEP). I can move extremely fast in DP. MOTU needs to add a dedicated XYZ MPE lane to the continuous controller lane, but other than that DP’s MIDI editor is so clean and fast  Studio One is too busy, (and “square”).  Logic is good but a little unorganized. Cubase is very good, just not my cup of tea. These are just my opinions of course.

If I had to rate the DAWs Articulation Setup workflows I’d say that none of them are perfect but that DP and Studio One are the closest to being complete, (I’m a big fan of Dynamic Mapping). followed by Cubase’s Expression Maps, (despite the Groups and Types feature Cubase now has some catching up to do), then Logic’s Articulation Sets, (although I do like the Remote tab). I also like Logic’s overall workflow of applying articulations to notes a lot. DP11 is very similar in this way, (they both have a Event Lists, Score Editors, etc, but there’s no right-click contextual menu in DP unfortunately).

I guess I already said this but I think it was really smart of MOTU to adopt the Expression Maps and the Dynamic Mapping APIs. And I’m glad they didn’t add in some of the limitations that the other two did. Like you, I hope MOTU stays aggressive and improves Articulation Maps with some of the features being asked for. I’m certainly staying aggressive from my position  

Mike,

I apologize for the slow replies. I'm swamped over here. 

1. According to Paul, VSL is working on an update to VEP that will allow Sync to VI to "sync" through VEP. Right now though, it only works with a VST3 version of Synchron Player when hosted in your DAW, (DP11 or Studio One 5.2).

2. The API that MOTU is using for DP11 is the same API as Studio One's Dynamic Mapping API. 

3. I wanted and pushed for DP to have a "right-click" contextual menu for selecting articulations (like Studio One and Logic), but I got "out voted" I guess. :) Some beta testers said they saw no reason for that. I agree with you, but whatever...

Of all of the DAWs, my favorite application of articulations is Logic's, (although their Articulation Sets window is horrid - there's no Save.. button in the GUI! Apple breaks their own Human Interface Guidelines more than developers. It's crazy. But their Remote implementation is excellent). I like DP11's and Studio One's Articulation Maps and Sound Variation's window, (especially Sound Variation's "Activation Sequence" - very good approach). Some mixture of Studio One's Sound Variations, Logic's Articulation Sets and DP11's Articulation Maps Setup would be optimal.

All in all I think MOTU did an excellent job. Adopting Expression Maps and Dynamic Maps was smart, IMO. And they added some features that others don't have. You can edit the Output Mapping after Syncing to VI, unlike Cubase. There are extra articulations in the score editor that Cubase doesn't have. And as bad as DP's score editor is, it BLOWS away Cubase's, (sorry Cubase fans). Logic and Studio One's score editors are excellent. Integrating Notion into Studio One was very smart. I use Finale primarily, but I also use Notion and Notion iOS, (and Dorico), so I'm very familiar with it. I wish MOTU would buy Finale (or the other way around), and combine the two! That's my unrealistic dream.

While MOTU left Groups out, (which I'm fine with), they also simplified some things about the Articulation Maps workflow that I really like.

I hope that helps for now. After the upcoming MOTU Webinar next week (I'm the guest and will be doing a deep dive on Articulation Maps and Dynamic Mapping), I can say a lot more.  

Till then!

The thing that MOTU did that was quite smart, IMO, is that they adopted Steinberg’s VST API for Expression Maps, and Studio One’s
VST API for Dynamic Mapping (part of Sound Variations), and combined them together. Not only that, they added some new features not found in either technology and bypassed some of the limitations (output mapping that is sync’d can be altered, etc..).

In my opinion, MOTU not having the resources of some of these other companies, was wise to adopt existing technologies and not re-invent the wheel, (so to speak).

DP11 also supports MIDI 2.0 and MPE.

All in all, good timing and smart moves on MOTU’s part. Not everything needs to be developed in house. It’s often a win for the end user when developers support 3rd party open APIs. DP11 is a tremendous step in the right direction, IMO.

Regards,
Steve Steele
MOTU Beta Tester and Template Designer
https://www.stevesteele.com

Here's my video that Paul mentioned. It explains Dynamic Mapping and all related features.

The video is in 4k. YouTube should have the compressed high res version available to watch by the time you see this message.

https://youtu.be/Vo8lNeOfVpw

Here's a transcript from the video.

1. VST3 - To take advantage of Dynamic Mapping you must load the VST3 version of a supported instrument. Here I’ve loaded VSL’s Synchron Player. 
2. New Map - Choose Instrument with Options and select Vienna Synchron Player, … open the MIDI editor, … select Articulation Maps Setup from the Project menu or the mini-menu,… and load a preset from the instrument. Click on New Map. 
3. The New Map Setup message appears. After clicking Yes the Synchron Player sends an articulation list to DP11 which generates a map complete with Output Mapping. The entire Articulation Map can be edited and altered to your liking. 
4. Sync To VI - Click Sync to VI,… change presets in the Synchron Player,… the Sync Map message appears. You can choose to create a New Map or update the current Map. You can change presets as many times as you want, and a new map will automatically become available.
5. Auto Remote Setup - Generated articulation maps include a complete Articulation list with Output Mapping. Remotes are left blank. Digital a Performer gives you two options for easily creating remotes. In the global folder, find and select the newly generated map labeled, “untitled map”. Right click and choose Auto Setup Remotes.
6. Remotes Keys - The enharmonic notes in the Remote list are flats except for the F#. DP11 defaults to this spelling. To change this, change the key in the conductor track. Try selecting F# Major, clicking on an articulation alters the enharmonic notes to reflect the new key signature. Changing the key alters the enharmonic notes to reflect that new key signature.
7. MIDI Learn - The 2nd option for creating remotes allows you to manually customize remotes quickly by selecting Midi Learn. Click on any of the areas that are highlighted, and it will glow blue. Play a Note on your Midi keyboard, move a continuous controller, or send a Program Change. These incoming Midi event Messages will be understood and stored after clicking End Learn.
8. Note Color - By right clicking on Notes in the Track Selector you can choose the color of the MIDI notes in the piano roll. Options are 
   - event color - track color - midi channel color - or articulation color. You can also choose a custom event color.
9. Set Articulation - Highlight a note in the MIDI editor and select Set Articulation in the Region menu. The Set Articulation window opens and the mapped articulation list is displayed. Here you can change articulations on a Per Note basis. This menu also appears in the: - Information Bar - the Event Information Window - and the Event List window. 
10. Flush Articulation - The Flush Articulations command is a very powerful command. With a single click the articulation list along with the output mapping will be converted to MIDI Event Messages which are displayed in the Event List. 
11. Remap - Use outputs to convert track events to articulation maps. By Click, Holding and Dragging Articulations you can change their order.

Regards,
Steve Steele
https://www.stevesteele.com

I’m hoping to see a completely new Synchron Woodwinds Pro library to go with Synchron Strings Pro and Synchron Percussion complete with:

1. Mic positions - Decca Tree (mono center and stereo L/R), Close and Mid (spot), SRND normal and SRND 3D (although I’m not sure that much width and depth is necessary for woodwinds, I’d still like to have a recorded signal to send to those busses, instead of using a reverb for this).

2. Articulations - Everything the original VI Pro Winds had and more. New sample set?

3. All woodwinds included- Woodwinds I, Woodwinds II and Special Winds as one package, or perhaps Flutes, Oboes, Clarinets and Bassoons sold as separate libraries, or I suppose like Synchron Percussion, a I and II library  

VSL’s Woodwinds are the best, have always been the best and probably won’t ever be topped, IMO. I never bother using anything else. But I’d like to see the “Synchron Pro” treatment given to the winds. A winds library that will last a decade.

Am I the only one who feels this is needed (many of my clients want this)? Anyone have additional thoughts on the future of VSL winds?

Steve Steele
The Modular Template for Digital Performer and Vienna Ensemble Pro
www.stevesteele.com

Hey Richard, 

Just curious. Are you asking if the protocols are compatible (can run at the same time), or if there is enough bandwidth to transmit both protocols bi-directionally?

Thanks Michael. I'll try these out and report back. Let me see if I can come up with the other articulations. Might take several days, got a full plate at the moment. I did build a TouchOSC interface for Synchron Piano, I might do the same for Synchron Strings. If you want a copy let me know.

Thanks again! Always enjoy when someone makes Prules. Saves me time!

Steve Steele
VSL Certified
stevesteele.com

Actually...😉 MOTU rebuilt DP’s Audio engine for v9.5. At first there were some major issues for most users. Now it’s great. MOTU likes to say it’s the fastest audio engine out there. The fact is that the last engine was pretty slow and us long time DP users didn’t know it! Now DP is up to speed with most good DAWs.

When VSL released the MAS version of VE Pro I thought it was just a nice gesture for us lonely DP users. But I think it had something to do with the new engine. Regardless, I’m loving DP 9.5 and VE Pro 6. Match made in heaven.

I still love Logic and Cubase though. All three are great. I would be happy using any of the three (I own all three). But you said it. The Chunks feature is just too good to give up!

Take care Jay!

Steve Steele

Many times I just accidentally closed the window (knowing full well what would happen), only to have my session go "poof"

For an encore, how about the VEP/MIR bug that keeps icons in the MIR window from being moved until MIR is undocked/docked?

Thanks guys!!!

 

Steve Steele

VSL Certified - VE Pro Tempale Builder

stevesteele.com

I'm VSL Certified and have clients from all parts, especially Hollywood, and the four most popular DAWs for composer are Cubase, Logic, Digital Performer and Pro Tools (yes, Pro Tools).

They all have great things about them and I'm always looking over the fence to see what I'm missing. That being said, don't ignore Digital Performer. It has some features that you'll wonder how you ever lived without. I believe DP is the most effcieient with VE PRO on macOS, (I have no numbers to back that up), but DP is better optimized for macOS than Cubase, and DP allows for 48 MIDI ports which means you get 768 MIDI channels per VEP instance, (whereas Logic only allows 1 MIDI port per instance, which I see you already know). Jay may a workaround for that that he uses, (other than the Event Input).

No DAW is perfect, although there are many workarounds too improve each. Out of the box, I'm upset that Apple rarely updates their AU spec and limits Logic to 1 MIDI port, (clearly documented on Apple's Developer website. But Logic has the best Score Editor IMO, although DP's and Cubase's are pretty good. I also like the overall interface. I enjoy working in Logic.

Digital Performer is sometimes seen as an old school DAW, with separate MIDI and Instrument channels. However,  is a blessing in disguise, IMO. DP is very deep. But, oh boy, I wish they'd fix that tiny 1988 font problem. I'm not even that old and I strain to read some of DP's text! Wish more developers would support MAS, like VSL (bless you VSL), and AudioEase do, when it's more than just a wrapper issue. DP is deep, deep, deep..

Cubase is a wonderful DAW, especially with it's well integrated VST3 implantation. Thank goodness for Cusbasis on iOS. I find DP and Cubase so close in a lot of ways, but am a 25 year DP user, (v1.7) and there's no prying me away now.

My point is, don't sleep on Digital Performer. It's powerful. It might be a bit intimidating to new users, but you can try the free 30 day downloadable demo and see for yourself.

Not starting a DAW war here. Trust me. I love the BIG THREE and use them all (especially when I want to shake things up). Just wanted to suggest you take a look at DP.

 

Best wishes,

 

Steve Steele

 

VSL Certified Vienna Ensemble Pro Template Builder

Nate,

I came up with a solution that you might find acceptable. I configured the VEP mixer so that each instrument's dry signal, it's MIR signal (both mics), and MIRacle's signal are independently bussed back to my DAW so that I have fader control over each signal in my DAW. In effect giving me a close, stage and room mix.

After using the appropriate settings in MIRacle, I also reduced MIR's reverb time and mic offset. I might tweak the dry sound with a small bit of Teldex early reflection from Hybrid Reverb, adjust MIR's resonance with some room Eq, and adjust MIRacle's modulation a bit more, but I'm quite impressed with the results. Btw, I used the Teldex venue with VSL Woodwinds.

I'd be glad to share the project settings or a screen capture if you like.

Steve Steele

I"m glad I ran into this thread. I've been trying for days to figure this out with Digital Performer as my DAW. Actually the Quad return isn't a big deal in DP as DP supplies a fader-like quad channel (four mono or two stereo) trim plugin. And after going back and reading the MIR manual I wonder if the results would be the same to set up MIR in VEP as effects inserts and busing the wet signal to MIRacle using a tame Teldex preset, (to go with the Teldex room).

I'll be sending an email to support too if I can't get this working by tonight. But now I know I was on the right track.

Thanks
Steve

"- Disable Cells Feature in VI: You can now load samples of a cell only when it is receiving MIDI, and load presets with disabled cells, enabling them on demand."

Between the Disabled Cell feature and the Reset, Learn and Optimizie feature even the large Synchron libs will be very managable. I have a very large mixed VSL/Kontakt template that loads up with zero RAM footprint. Samples get loaded into RAM as they recive MIDI input (for both VI Pro and Kontakt). During or after I'm finished composing, before I print to stems I optimize everything. RAM footprint is reduced to such a low level, even computers with only 16GBs of RAM would be able to deal with playback, no problem.

(Not trying to self-promote) My Youtube channel has some VEP optimization videos, but I should make one for Synchron and VI Pro/VEP. Just ask if you want me to post a link (I don't want to step on any toes here).

Synchron!! Hallelujah!! I'm so glad VSL has taken this route. 

Steve Steele

Hi Greg - I heard they're working on demoes for those mics. 

(EDIT: I bought it and no, they're not up yet). I'm curious if the Synchron Percussion is available in the Audition Player. Anyone know?

Steve

Andi. I just double checked and the Wagner Tuba is the Standard library while my other single instrument Brass are Full Libraries.

Does that make a difference?

Thanks.

Steve

Great! So this must be simple. In Finale do I change the Program or Bank number to 2 to get my 2nd instance of VEP, then Bank 3 MIDI 1-16, for my 3rd instance etc..? Is that all?

[UPDATE]: I figured out that bank numbers allowed me to setup different MIDI ports/Instances.

One more question. I recently purchased the VSL Wagner Tuba full lib, and I installed as I do every other library, but instead of showing up in VI Pro underneath "- C - Brass PRESET Files, it's located under "- D - Downloaded Instruments - PRESET - Files". Is there any way to get the Wagner Tuba to show up in the Brass directory? All my other VSL libs show up properly in VI Pro. Is there something I should do in the Vienna Instruments Direcrory Manager? There wasn't anything obviousl that I saw that would make this happen.

Thanks again Andi!

Steve Steele

Hello all - Simple question. If I need multiple instances of VEP in Finale 25 do I need to use the Event Input Plugin as is the norm for AU based hosts, or is there a Sibelius type Sound Set feature that makes it possible to host multiple instances?

For consistency I'd like to use an AU based VEP template that's a replica of my Digital Performer MAS based template, which between VI Pro, LASS and MIR requires at least 8-10 ports and 4 instances of VEP.

I realize this is a question for the Finale folks but many people over there don't seem to know much about VEP, and it's a simple question for anyone here that uses Finale.

Thanks!

Where do I go to find out about upgrading from Brass SE Vol. 1 and 1 Plus to either one the Brass libraries or hopefully Dimension Brass if that's possible? 

Do you have info on this site, can I ask a direct question or do I need to contact ILIO in the US?

Thanks,

Steve

I go through all of the important new features of VEP6 as if I'm building a new template from beginning to end. There are a couple of things in the video that aren't mentioned in the manual. 

I don't mention any crashes. That's for another time and place. Let me know if you find it helpful and how I can improve my videos. Would you prefer I go deeper into very large templates or stick to features?

Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/9whfRMMwxeQ

It's nice that DP9.1 and VEP6 came out at the same time. Both are really good and stable. I ran them hard together for 24 hours straight and not a single crash. So I made a video about starting from scratch with an empty DP document.  I set everything up, wrote about 20 bars of orchestral music, did some editing and finished. I explain everything as I go.

I tried a new method to condense an hour down to 20 minutes. Let me know if you still find the video helpful or if it's too fast. All I was trying to show was the process. That's really what the video is about. So the pace seemed ok. And you get to see enough of VEP6 to get an idea of what it feels like. I could have shown more VEP6 features but I just wanted to show it in action. Love the tabs! I'll probably continue to use this style in future videos where it fits. The fast pace starts around 2:15.

Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/0kKSSpMOHgY

Glad it worked. Thanks for reporting that the uninstaller gave you a choice to keep the rules intact (in this case for the server, port and protocol assigments) when uninstalling. I hadn't really thought about that because I've never uninstalled it. That was a nice gesture on the developers part though, even if it was just for troubleshooting or whatever.  

I thought more people would reply on this one. But I'm just happy to have thought about it and to have shared it.

Considering the way you did it, I could leave much shorter instructions. But because it involves opening ports I thought a little background was a good idea. Although I don't think opening the ports for Vienna Ensemble is a big deal. In fact, I think it's the solution.

Steve

Here my fix..

I hesitated at first to post this because I was not sure if Vienna Ensemble Pro Server needed to allow incoming connections from a VSL or eLicenser server, or potentially a slave computer. The VEP manual lists used network ports as 6472, 6473, 6474, 6475, 6476, 6477. That’s VERY helpful actually. But I saw via Little Snitch that it was also trying to connect via port 80. Has this been taken in to account for? I don’t know. But thinking about this actually led me to this solution. There are probably a few ways to go about this. I have two. One is the shotgun approach and requires a little clean up work. The other is precise although I didn’t actually try it yet but seeing how it’s potentially safer I’m going to (I’m sure it will work - you can find it in the middle of Step Two). . Both require the app Little Snitch which might have a downloadable demo (or you can do this part in the Terminal if you know how, I currently don’t).

This may not be perfect but it seems harmless and it worked for me. I see no reason it won’t work for everyone. It occurred to me that if Little Snitch can control incoming and outgoing network connections, and port and protocol assignments, it might just be able to “patch” this issue.

I use Vienna Ensemble Pro Server (64-bit) throughout this but it goes for either the 32-bit or 64-bit server apps.

Step one:

A previous post recommended to check the apps code signing status.

https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t32838-incoming-network-connections#post207269

Open Terminal. We’re going to do some copying and pasting.

Before you do this PLEASE look at the commands closely. Notice the path to Vienna Ensemble Pro Server (64-bit) is in my Applications folder in the Vienna Ensemble Pro folder. If yours is too, you can copy and paste the commands below exactly as they are. If you keep VEP somewhere else, you need to either type in the path or drag the Vienna Ensemble Pro Server (64-bit) app into the Terminal after entering <codesign -vvv "> which will enter the path for you, then put a close quote at the very end.

codesign -vvv "/Applications/Vienna Ensemble Pro/Vienna Ensemble Pro Server (64-bit).app"

If it returns "code or signature modified" something has indeed gone wrong so go ahead and enter..

sudo codesign --force --sign - /Applications/Vienna\ Ensemble\ Pro/Vienna\ Ensemble\ Pro\ Server\ \(64-bit\).app

It should return.. "valid on disk" and "satisfies its Designated Requirement"

You’ve just given it a valid code signature. But that’s not enough. Time for surgery.

Step two:

Ok, now you'll need Little Snitch (or know the commands that change Servers, Ports and Protocols that applications use, which like I said before, I currently don't). And again, Little Snitch might have a demo mode, I'm not sure. I've owned it for so long I can't remember. It's a great app to own anyway, although until you set up all of the rules, it might get on your nerves a bit. Also, there should be several other utilities that can do what we’re about to do.

You can find Little Snitch at: https://www.obdev.at/products/index.html

Quit all running applications. Open Little Snitch. In the Little Snitch Configuration window see if Vienna Ensemble Pro Server (64-bit) is listed in the main window area. It probably won’t be, but if it is, select it and right-click or control-click and choose Edit Rule...

If you just installed Little Snitch and haven't opened VEP yet it won't be in the main window. So, from the Little Snitch Configuration window click New in the task bar. From Process, click the folder icon and select Choose Application. Dig through your Finder into the Apps folder and the Vienna Ensemble Pro 5 folder and select Vienna Ensemble Pro Server (64-bit).

Then enter this information… (This may take some trial and error but if you want to try the “precise” approach, create a setting in Little Snitch that allows Vienna Ensemble Pro Server (64-bit) to use port 80 as one of the port numbers allowed in Little Snitch’s main window. If you try this method, you can skip Step Three. If there’s still an issue after trying this method and you've done it right, then more investigation is needed).

Allow Connections

Process Owner: Me

Server: Any Server

Port: any

Protocol: any

Enabled: Checked

Click Ok.

Step three:

Open System Preferences. (I'm running 10.9.5, and these steps could be slightly different depending on which OS you're on). Click on Security & Privacy. Unlock the lock, enter you user password and Click on the Firewall tab. Open Firewall Options...

Make sure "Automatically allow signed software to receive incoming connections" is checked.

Take a screen capture or make a list of every app or process listed (You might need this later to add them back manually if needed or wanted). Select every app or process listed in the window and delete. Shift-click and you can select them all at the same time, then click the minus button. Click Ok. Lock the lock. Restart you Mac.

Step four:

Launch Vienna Ensemble Pro Server (64-bit)

Did it work? It did for me. If the “Allow incoming..” dialog box did appear click Accept, then quit VEP and restart you Mac. When it restarts, first thing go to the Firewall prefs and see if Vienna Ensemble Pro Server (64-bit) is now in the window and is Allowing Incoming Connections. Now, launch Vienna Ensemble Pro Server (64-bit) again. If no message, it worked. Restart your Mac and try again.

If somehow you've come to the end of this feeling like you've destroyed your Vienna Ensemble Pro Server (64-bit) app, just either reinstall VEP from your last install package if you want (you could just trash the Vienna Ensemble Pro Server (64-bit) app and then run the installer for a minimally intrusive installation. Download VEP from your account, or use the uninstaller and then reinstall.

Hope this helps someone.

Steve

 

Paul - How about throwing out or deleating whatever file VEP is using to remember plugins so it can start from scratch?

I've had similar problems with the versions of the VEP app I don't use (the non-server versions), but the 64-bit VEP server runs like a champ. Never chockes on plugins. And I think that's partly due to the fact that I manually move plugins that I don't use out of the plugins folder, and the 64-bit server app has a good record file of working plugins. Does that make sense?

When DP has problems with plugins I just trash the plugins cache file and all is fixed.

I have about the same amount of plugins and I don't think he should be having this problem. The current buikds have been very stable. I'm using the MAS version.

Steve Steele

If you're still getting the "Do you want the application “Vienna Ensemble Pro Server (64-bit).app” to accept incoming network connections?" when opening VEP and you want to get rid of it, I have a solution.

There have been posts before but I didn't see where everyone seemed to take note of it.

If this is still as issue let me know and I'll post the answer. (I just want to be carefull because it involves replacing the exsisting (code) signature for the Application Firewall. It's not a big deal. It worked perfectly for me. I no longer get that message and VEP works fine.

Steve

Is the dump file in the Notation section the only Finale related help on this site? I was hoping to find something like sound sets or some data files that help Finale know the pitches of percussion instruments and other things.

What do we have? Please let there be something good.

Its bad enough that Finale doesn't have ReWire support (although I think that's coming), but it's a pain to get it to work well with Digital Performer or VEP. I need Finale to sync with DP, while VEP is slaved to Finale or DP. That would be a dream come true. The owner of Finale, on his blog, asked users what they wanted to see in the next version of Final and a lot of people said ReWire. I shouted ReWire. He took notice. 

Notion is not the answer. Sibelius is obviously good. But it has a very weird tendency to feel "rubbery" I know that makes no sense. I hate the ribbon (turned off), the keyboard is ok, but I don't know. I went back to Finale after many many years and I'm gonna give it a serious go. 

So, sorry for that non related story but now it's frustrating to see all of the Sibelius Sound Set files, but nothing for Finale. Are there any Finale GURUs that would be kind enough to have a conversation with me. I would be forever in your debt.

Steve Steele