I'd hate to hear what he would have said if he got stuck with the pre-VI non-upgradeable First/Pro Edition:

http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/p/18643/131496.aspx#131496

I've actually seen quite a lot of blues heads in Bb, but F is definitely the more popular key.  I believe this is because these keys transpose to easy keys for Bb and Eb instruments (trumpet, tenor and alto sax--the main horns used for jazz).  It's rare you'll see any classic instrumental jazz tunes in sharp keys for this very reason.

Looking forward to gleaning your insights from the book. Thanks!

Clark

Hey, thanks! I have been busy, just not with music, sadly. My website will be up in a couple of months, though, and my new "products" are right along these lines (but in no way competitive with your book).---Clark

Oh, Lordy, how I would like to see this. Please, please, send this to me as well. I do a lot of this kind of work...(classical improv, that is)---Clark

Also, I'll put a room verb on each track BEFORE the Dir mixer to push the instrument back. So the signal chain for each instrument is: EQ, big room, Dir mixer, aux send to space designer. Not scientific, I know, but it mixes better with stuff like project sam, etc.---Clark

I find that panning (using the Dir mixer in Logic) has given me a tremendous sense of space (especially as it pertains to doublings). In fact, I made this a part of my template immediately after first using a panner that could narrow the spread. Things like reverb and eq are so much easier to predict and control when the sound source is more like a 'real' orchestral recording. As a result, I hardly use compression--maybe on the 2bus if the dynamics are too wide. ---Clark

I remember 15 years ago chaining together two reverbs all the time (PCM 70, TC, etc.) to get a smoother, more 'expensive" sound.  This worked real well with the cheap to mid-priced units of the day, as the studio I was working at didn't have the 480L or something similar.

So needless to say I still do this with the software verbs as well.  Very effective, IMO.

Clark

My experience with big bands is so very similar.  I discovered VERY quickly (all those dirty looks--it only takes once!) to take advantage of the idiomatic nature of the instruments (as well as arranging conventions) as much as possible while making it interesting musically.  Everything tunes better, it swings better, and the music requires less rehearsal.

Clark

I would love to be accused of sounding like JW.

Mike, you are the man.

Clark

Lately I've been using an EQ--Plat Verb--Dir Mixer plug chain then Sound Designer thru a bus (this is Logic with 1st Edition btw)

This alows me to place the instrument in the stereo field with a localized verb/early reflection sort of thing.  The Plat verb has a warmer, shorter verb (1.8 ms) at 75-80% wet/dry ratio, I narrow and pan that with the Dir mixer, then send it to the main verb(s).  Also, I've been working with zero pre-delay on everything, so I can help kill that "dry" signal combined with reverb sound that William is talking about.

Since I'm on an old machine, I usually bypass the Plat Verb while I work, occasionally unmuting it to check the part with others in its family (all brass, for instance).  At the end, I will freeze most of the tracks for final mix tweaking of the remaining parts.

Works pretty well, and the dry, close VSL sits better with the Project Sam stuff (close or stage mic, as I send everything thru SDesigner in the end), for example.  Totally unscientific, I should say, as I am "earballing" the sound.

Clark

Of course, this is assuming that you have full range satellites that aren't automatically sending info below, say, 125 Hz (or 150 Hz like Peter said) to the sub like most budget home systems. Even sats that have 3" cones can tell you a lot about bass mgmt. if you monitor at lower volumes (after disabling the auto crossover on the receiver).

He's asking for EQ and crossover points, Angelo.

I suggest disconnecting your center speaker in your 5.1 home setup and turning down your subwoofer all the way to hear how music is EQ'd for DVD. This way, you can bring the sub gradually back in to find out how much info they send to the sub. It's different for every movie, so pick your favorite.

Mixing is different for theaters vs. DVD as well. See here for more----

http://www.gearslutz.com...-screen-big-screeen.html

I find this very encouraging.  Respectfully, I will be very forthcoming with my intentions in order to be considered for extra time, as my business situation at this moment would reveal, however I won't bore the forum with these details.  I'll bore the sales department!

Seriously, though, it seems that Herb really does want to keep his old old OLD costomers by writing that.  Bravo.

Clark

RE: EXS versions vs. VI

Whether we like the EXS versions better is totally beside the point.  I said on the first page of this thread that I liked the EXS version and it worked great. However, I am going to have to upgrade my system at SOME point, and not just because I still have Logic 8 still in the box.  Other software that I own will have to upgrade to accomodate new hardware like my camera, etc.

Plus there are lots of advantages to the VI player.

EDIT:  I see what you're saying now, John.  Sorry, don't mean to disagree with you.

Well, I'm going to have to get very cozy with Kontakt now, porting over the FE perf stuff, etc. so I can upgrade my OS and DAW without losing my "lifetime investment..."

Clark

Herb,

Thanks for listening and interacting, btw.  Your responses, however, are rather misleading and contradictory, as the peoples' reactions to your words have illustrated.

Just because I represent the minority of VSL users doesn't mean that you should discard our eligibility.  It is, in fact, FOR the majority of VI users that you should retain the upgrades to at least the existing products.  Why?  Because the end of the VIP means that THEY ARE NEXT.

So even when you say "All future updates of the Vienna Instruments software will be for free"   ...Oh, sure that's what you say NOW...

Who's gonna believe you?

Not me. Not anymore.

Clark

Herb, thank you for this extra grace period.

The VIP is more valuble to those of us who buy less frequently:  The outlay is so much more serious for someone like me--I have to budget FAR in advance (more than 6 months).

Which is to say, I am still hoping that you will stretch it further...please consider, as you will retain more of your customer base.  I for one will continue to buy when I can afford it, but if I lose my status, my next purchase will have to be smaller and much later than sooner.

Hell, I'd be willing to put down a small deposit (like a layaway item) to reserve a product at the VIP price.  I could complain about lifetime investment, etc., but really I'm so desperate right now I'm actually losing sleep over this.  Show me a hoop to jump through, just point the way!

Clark

You better decide fast. VSL is eliminating your discount in 90 days for all of your libraries.

Clark 

 Oh, boy, this makes me feel sick inside...

I find it hard to believe that it is really that difficult to keep up with all of the upgrade paths.  After all, isn't that what the discount calculator is for?

Consider this:  My first Edition and Horizon libraries STILL hold their own against ANY other library out there.  If they can hold their value in a practical sense, shouldn't VSL honor that kind of staying power?

I overextended myself when purchasing over $5000 US for these libraries years ago.  I thought with the VIP I would never have to worry because I could wait to reenter the sequencing field while work took me elsewhere.

I still use a 2x1.25 G4 with 1.5 gig of RAM.  It still works great.  The samples work great.  I have a never say die attitude about my music, it has allowed me to persevere where the less tenacious have given up.

Do not abandon us, please please please.

As stated above, the idea of extending the deadline is an excellent one.  Please consider six months or even December 31st.

Also, if the database management issue is real (and I don't mean to insult you by not believing that it's too difficult to update the discount calculator) maybe only allow upgrades from the full 1st Ed./Pro to the full cube while eliminating the horizon and piecemeal upgrades.

Remember, you are setting dangerous precedent here.  Basically what you are saying to your customers is that there is only a VIP as long as it is convenient for you.  At any given moment, EVERY SINGLE VSL customer is at the very most 90 days away from losing their entire investment.

 EVERY SINGLE VSL customer is at the very most 90 days away from losing their entire investment.

 EVERY SINGLE VSL customer is at the very most 90 days away from losing their entire investment.

 EVERY SINGLE VSL customer is at the very most 90 days away from losing their entire investment.

At any given moment.

That is what you are saying. 

Clark 

Great ideas here; just thouht I would add my vote for extended techniques. The 'gypsy' string stuff was a great start. SOOOO...........I would LOVE twentieth century techniques to be worked in to the libraries. Very important, IMHO.----Clark

It would also depend on the material. Certain writing translates easily to samples while other things sound horrible and require a ton of tweaking or 'tricks' to get the right sound. ---Clark

I think what is key here is being able to make the transition from one keyboard to the next. Yammy's are my favorite fake actions for the price, BTW. ---Also remember that key to key on each controller the response WILL be different (black notes vs. whites, for example). So if you at least get a consistent response from your current board, I say stick with it. ---Clark

And to be fair Apple has said repeatedly that OMF transfer works and it hasn't--ever. So should you buy L8 to bounce projects back and forth between Pro Tools or Final Cut Pro or Avid and Logic and then get upset when it doesn't? Of course not. That's why I was stressing how important it is to do your homework. ---Clark

O.K., after all that, I would like to say that I would love VSL to continue to remedy the performance tool problems caused by L8. I think I would like to upgrade once we get to Logic 8.1.3 or something like that. So that gives the VSL folks, say, 18 months. (Apple, this is a dig at YOU). ---Clark

For Those Of You Who Cannot Downgrade To L7: Shame on you for not waiting until the smoke cleared. I NEVER buy anything that is a new release. Why? Because this stuff happens ALL THE TIME. Upgrades, incompatabilities, drivers, bugs, lions, tigers, and bears, oh my! If you are REALLY in dire straits because of your current configuration, then it's because YOU didn't do your homework. Sure, I have my own issues with Logic, VSL, Apple (OMF has NEVER worked!), Spectrasonics, XSample, Advanced Orchestra, Vintaudio, Peak, Digidesign, MOTU, M-Audio (I want my money back!), and Sony. -----------------BUYER BEWARE!----------------Do your homework, know what the product does NOW, then buy THAT. Betting on the next thing gets no sympathy from me. ---Clark

Think about it: ALL the pros I know don't use the latest versions of anything. OS, programs, CPU's, interfaces, anything. If you really think you can't make the music you were meant to write without the latest and greatest Logic, then it's time to wake up and smell the coffee. Stability and predictability are absolutely key to being productive. NOT bells and whistles.