Hi Paul,

There is indeed such a thing as mic shadowing, whereby the mic's "field of view" can be partially obstructed, but this can only yield such an audible effect if the obstructing object is within few centimeters from the mic. More importantly, there would need to be a transition between affected and non-affected keys, just as a shadow has blurry edges. I would venture a guess and say that the close1 mics where not even that close to the strings because I don't hear a proximity effect (as I do on the tube mic), so they must have been at least 40-50 cm from the soundboard.

Whatever the cause, whether shadowing, phase cancellation or anything else, the result is simply not desirable, so why not fix it?

If the entire piano is sampled all at once, there is indeed nothing that can be done per key, neither volume nor panning, but that's not the case here.

Thank you for fixing mid1 and mid2, but here too you've initially suggested that these have not been manipulated. In this case mic shadowing could not have been the cause because of the bigger distance to the braces. Maybe whatever caused the mid1 and mid2 panning issues also affected close1?

As a side note, I listen to a lot of piano music, jazz and classical, old and modern, and I don't remember ever hearing such panning side effects where, for example, A2 is farther to the left than A1, as it's the case with close1. Maybe you have a few examples?

Thank you

Hi Paul,

I have no doubt that there is a valid reason for the panning shifts, but that does not mean that these cannot be adjusted, in my opinion.

I would not mind doing it myself, but we as users don't have access to per-key panning.

I like the sound of close1 very much, but because of the panning issues I avoid playing it.

Thank you

I was wondering the same thing.

A part of me is still hoping that the close1 panning issues will be looked at.

Thank you David and Ben, I really appreciate your help.

Somehow, that email landed in my spam folder. I only knew about the update because I saw it in MyVSL, where there was no mention about the mid1/2 and the panning fixes.

Anyway, I've updated mid1 and 2 and these are now good.

I was really hoping for a similar fix on close1 though.

While the panning on close1 is definitely not as problematic as it was on the mids, I was really hoping for a panning update on this too. These are harder to spot, but the issues are there and I hear them every time. 

I am talking about panning jumps between D2-D#2 and G2-G#2. In order to hear them, only have the close1 loaded and maybe turn off the reverb. Run an A Major scale starting from A1 to A2 and back. Headphones.

Same thing C4-C#4.

Other than that, the mid1 and mid2 are now good to go, thanks VSL for the update.

Thanks David and bbelius,

Where do you have this info from, and where are these two files available?

All I am seeing under MyVSL/Synchron Library Updates is Boesendorfer Imperial Library Update 01.

This only includes:

Y18_Boesendorfer_Imperial_Stereo_Update01_SPv1_w1.vsldownload and Y18_Boesendorfer_Imperial_Additional_Update01_SPv1_w1.vsldownload

I did see a V2 in front of the main library downloads, but I assumed V2 simply includes Update 01, especially since I could not find any mention of the panning fixes anywhere. The release notes only mention the C2 fix.

Do I need to download the V2s mid1 and mid2?

Thanks

Originally Posted by: KevinMe

I have to say the update has resulted in a step up in my enjoyment of the Bösendorfer Imperial. I don't properly understand the fixes, the panning issue was one I didn't pick up on but there is something cleaner about the sound after the update

I am however confused, from what I understand and my reading of the lightweight release notes the fixes are for panning issues in the mid mics and removing clicks for certain notes in the close and mid mics at high velocities. It feels like the improvement is more than that to me, are there any other changes or is that it?

I was rating BI a step down from the Vienna Imperial, but now I'd be hard pressed to say which i enjoy more.

They have quite different sounds.

Hi Kevin,

I think I may be missing something.

The panning issues have not been addressed, nor have they been mentioned in the release notes.

Regarding the improvements you are hearing, can you be a little more specific? I am asking because I hear zero difference. Just so my ears don't deceive me, I created a chromatic run in Cubase, at different velocities and bounced the results with and without the update, then did a null test (listen to both bounces at the same time, but reverse the phase on one track).

Other than a few extremely minor differences in the lower registers on a few velocities on the ribbon mic only, and the C2 peaks, both bounces sound absolutely identical, i.e. they null perfectly.

Anyway, looking forward to the panning fixes, as these currently keep me from enjoying this otherwise great sounding VSTi.

Thanks

Thank you

Thank you for the reply, Paul.

Regarding the Boesendorfer Mid1 microphone, I am not complaining about the stereo width, but about the fact that the notes are randomly jumping from left to right in the stereo field. With headphones on and with only Mid1 loaded, simply run a C major scale up and down. I can provide you with with a midi file, but I don't think this is needed since the panorama issues are very obvious.

Regarding bugs, wishes or feature requests, I honestly consider that everyone on this board has been pretty patient and understanding, it's just that it's been a year and a half since the Concert D has been released, and we have yet to get a clear answer. We had a few replies stating that the sympathetic resonance and the silent key are not considered priorities, or that it's even been decided to leave these out, but I need to remind you that the sympathetic resonance is not a feature request. Moreover, I don't think there are many VSTi pianos on the market that do not have this feature. The same goes for the silent key and velocity curve control. These are basic yet important features and I am really having a hard time accepting that the most expensive VSTi pianos on the market do not have them.

There's been a "Sympathetic" control on the interface since day one, it's just that it really does not do what it's supposed to do. Not even close. The same behavior has been carried over to the CFX, Bluethner and the two Boesendorfer.

Nobody has asked for over night, magical fixes. It's been a while though.

I personally still have patience, but it would be nice of VSL to at least acknowledge the bugs and confirm that they are being worked on. An ETA would be nice too.

Thank you

Hi everybody,

I've recently bought the Bosendorfer and I quite like it.

I am however pretty disappointed by the pretty distracting panning issues I am hearing on the Mid1 (extreme), but also on the Condenser and Ribbon to a much lesser extent.

Other than that, while this piano sounds wonderful, it too suffers from an unnaturally quick and somewhat clinical sounding note decay, lack of sympathetic resonance and silent key, just like all the pianos in the Synchron collection. Not to mention the lack of a velocity curve control which, for such an expensive VSTi, is quite disappointing, to say the least.

Unfortunately, the best microphone in my opinion is the Tube, which does not come with the standard version. So I pretty much paid the full (introductory) price for one single microphone.

I don't expect the note decay to be improved (would be a welcome surprise though), and the lack of sympathetic resonance and silent key are being discussed in another thread, but I would like someone from VSL to acknowledge the panning issues and to hopefully tell us that a fix is in the works.

Thank you and stay safe

Originally Posted by: Paul

Hi cuzzinlouie, 

Glad to hear that you like the Concert D-274. 

No news on these 2 feature wishes yet, focus is still on VE Pro 7 right now. 

I'll do my best to keep you in the loop there. Luckily, the CFX won't run away. 

Best,
Paul

Hi Paul,

VE Pro 7 has been out for awhile now, do you have any news for us?

You mentioned in another thread that the silent key is not going to be implemented. Is that a "never" or there is simply no ETA yet?

Regarding the sympathetic resonance, I would not call it a feature request. The feature has already been implemented, it just needs quite a lot more love. I noticed that in all demos showcasing any of the 3 synchron pianos the sympathetic resonance is always turned off. I guess that means that everybody is aware of it's shortcomings.

Kind regards,

Hi,

I was wondering, is the VSL team planning on implementing a velocity curve editor in the Synchron player?

Vienna Instruments seems to have one, unfortunately I could not find a way to load The Concert D into it. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think this is possible, and I wonder why.

Such a great piano and I cannot use it at its full potential because of this. Adjusting the midi sensitivity knob only gets me half way there, as the adjustment I need is not linear. I know of the few standalone host applications that have been suggested here, but while these may be a viable workaround, they are of no help for recording since none of the DAWs I use (Cubase and Reaper) have a velocity curve editor built in.

I don't mean to be harsh, but every piano library released in the last decade has a velocity curve editor and It's a little surprising--to say the least--that the most expensinve VI piano on the market is lacking such a basic but crucial feature.

I am also considering getting the CFX, but not until this issue, along with the non functioning sympathetic resonance or the missing silent key, are being addressed. Can we expect an updated Synchron Pianos player in the near future?

Thank you

Hi all,

I've just purchased the Concert D and I am loving it! Congrats to the VSL team!

Any news on the sympathtic resonance and the silent key? Currently these two issues along wih the missing velocity curve are the only things stopping me from also getting the CFX.

Thanks