First of all. I'd like to thank Herb and his associates for the great work they have accomplished. I am, or try to be, a "silent" participant in the forum and I try to visit it regularly. I learn tremendous amount even tho' I've been in the trenches for 25 years of MIDI and think I know everything. In my opinion, the VSL project will be looked upon as "the" seminal project in sampling for serious musicians. It is a labor of love for both its creators and users. There is no "but" in the following paragraph.

I've, also, experienced the dreaded "sucking" sound with legato note transitions. I've tried every "solution" and they've not worked to my satisfaction. I stumbled upon a solution which works for me (I write string arrangements, as a ghost, for film - and as you all know, it can be a bitch in this business to get past both the tin and the golden ears).

Well, I do get by, by layering a short "string sample," with attack removed, under the transition zone. I mix it low enough to obscure the transition but not loud as to obscure the VSL string sound which can be beautiful with judicious EQ and IR.

PS: The works of Jay Bacal and Beat K. are stunning!

Eli

When I go to the 'User' page to log in, I get this error message after clicking the 'log in' button:

Microsoft VBScript runtime - Fehler '800a0009'
Subscript out of range: '[number: -1]'

I'm using Safari: Version 2.0.2 (416.13)

I'm unable to log in at all. If I click the Login button I'm transferred to the product registration page.

Help would be appreciated. Thanks.
Eli

When I go to the 'User' page to log in, I get this error message after clicking the 'log in' button:

Microsoft VBScript runtime - Fehler '800a0009'

Subscript out of range: '[number: -1]'

/admin/cdata.asp, line 528

'An ill wind that blows no good'

Jay,

Try the Eastman School of Music in Rochester, New York. I think Hanson taught there for years. They may have copies of his scores.

drg

After 30 years in this business, I still learn every day, even from guys like A.L.W. I respect everyone on this forum and avoid all pissing contests especially if I'm not wearing a raincoat and hat! Happy Holidays!

How do you know who is actually reading these pages?

I know you're not asking but, if you would ask me, I'd say the air is redolent of sour grapes.

"Der Ton macht die Musik."

How about this for a starter?

"...Let's not slight one of the best composers of the late 20th century. Save that for twits like Andrew Lloyd Weber."

My 0.02,

When I was a lowly freshman at the unheard of University of Buffalo, my first contact with the music department was through Alexander Schneider who was in residence with the famed 'Budapest String Quartet' (Joseph Roisman, Mischa Schneider, Boris Kroyt, and Alexander Schneider'). They were all 'professors' and great guys - over a period of 3 years, we consumed tons of pizza and burgers at 3AM, just talking about music, having lots of laughs and just hanging out and listening to 'jazz'. They were followed by 'Professors' Aaron Copland, Ned Rorem and Morton Subotnik - each and every one displaying infinitely less ego and pompousity than I've seen displayed on these pages. Just my 2 cents, for what it's worth!

BTW, Evan, I was privileged to meet your dad in NY on three occasions years ago - he fit into the above category. Never have I met a nicer or more talented man.

Evan,

Chari thinks you're 'half nuts (in a nice sense)' and you seem to agree but let's give credit where credit is due - in the remaining half, you are truly a wit!

Ich dank aych zeyer

Evan, bubbeleh

I hope you understand a little Yiddish:

'Du kannst nicht auf meinem rucken pishen unt mir sagen class es regen ist.'

A thoughtful and generous gift. Thanks

Happy Holidays.

Beat,

Merry Christmas!

drg

Ah, William - Right On Bro!!! I just removed 'naive' from my lexicon. It's the production techniques that are well protected. What we do is so closely intertwined with the technology that it becomes impossible to separate the composition and its orchestration/arrangement from the techniques used to produce the final product. But as you said before, that's our new instrument. We have to continue to adapt without ever losing our primary goal as musicians, i.e., to produce good music.

In a discussion on this Forum in March and April of this year. I read with glee as William, Bruce Robertson, Andy, and others kicked the ass of some Juilliard-trained elitist who attempted to disparage Andy's great piece of music. Michael Hula of VSL chimed in with this (addressing the elitist):

"...this conclusion is simply not true. without any insight to our work it's probably hard to understand, why a accomplished pro bassoonist or oboist will go all the way to the silent stage just to cut his own throat. [we are not going to share all our secrets], but i can asure you, one reason why it's very well possible to get the best of the best is - vienna."

Notice the statement in brackets (which I added for delineation). Even VSL has their 'secrets' and why not - I don't care what they have - I'm not interested in stealing them or asking about them. The one thing I care about is the product they produce. In that sense I feel exactly the same as William and Mathis. However, to deny that that such 'secrets' exist and/or should be shared with anyone, is truly naive.

BTW Mathis : I don't intend to 'change' my environment - I see as it is - and I adapt to it - (as Dave Connor said "just like a cockroach") - and it has been very good to me.

Hi JBM,

You've hit the nail squarely on the head. What we do now is so intertwined with technology that the technology itself becomes part and parcel of our music. I write my 'stuff' down and I'll show and talk about it to anyone but to protect myself, I have a way of 'producing' the 'sound' my 'clients' like to hear. This 'way of producing' is what I was referring to - call them tricks, techniques, whatever - they are in essence my (our) 'trade secrets', what can be generically called 'intellectual property'. However, we have no way of copywriting or otherwise protecting what has taken years to develop. Going back to William's initial statement that 'tricks are for fools and prostitutes' - I hope you can see why I got a little irritated and then started this whole thing. But now i hope we can put it to rest.

PS: Mathis, I hear you loud and clear and were those ideas applicable to the environment in which I work, it would be a Utopia and I'd be a very, very happy man. Now, I'm just a very happy man. Long live this Forum!

Hi William and JBM,

I'm not trying to start any kind of argument. I essentially agree with both of your positions. But I'm not talking about music the way it used to be done. I can't tell you how many hours I've spent reading scores and then listening to recordings - trying to figure out how these guys did what they did.

But I'm referring to the highly techological world in which we now find ourselves living and working. It does all boil down to semantics. What William calls technique, I'm calling 'tricks', let me now call them 'techniques'. There is no one I know of in this business today who doesn't have a host of 'techniques' which thet're not willing to reveal. It's a highly competitive business after all - why give away 'trade secrets'?

I could sit here and try to figure out what some guy is doing but by the time I figure it out, the train may have already left the station and some other guy with a 'bag-of techniques' is making hay.

Just try to write one of these guys who are successful - asking them how they do 'such-and-such' - just don't hold your breath waitng for the answer. It ain't coming! But there's nothing wrong with that, at least, I don't think there is. This is not academia - I know, I've spent many of years in that environment and I loved every minute of it but now, I have to pay for my tuna sandwiches at the 'Faculty Club'!

At the end of the day, it's really is a pleasure to exchange ideas with you - I appreciate all your work and your dedication to music. Thanks.

That statement will have Shore, Howard, Zimmer, Elfman, Grusin and the boys rolling in the aisles. Academically, what you say is true but naive - it does NOT apply to the world in which I've been making a very comfortable living for 25 years. There are secrets and tricks and that's no bullshit!

QUOTE: "Tricks" are for fools and prostitutes.
There is only good writing, or bad writing.

Hi Mathis,

Sorry for the confusion but I was referring to the 'academic' discussion following William's quote above - it just set me off.

Let me throw in my 2 cents (that's all it's worth).

These discussions would go great at the 'Faculty House' - the idea that everything is all about 'good writing' is absolutely true. However, most of you guys (me included) are not writing for a 'real' orchestra. That's why you term what you do as 'mock-ups'. Great writing also applies to what you do using virtual instruments. All the tricks you can use to 'fool' the ear are valid as long as the final product sounds 'real' to the listener. I don't get the point of the argument.

If a legato sample is not long enough you pull every trick from every technical corner to make it sound as if it is. Just look at the threads in the VSL forum - it's all about tricks. Even Evan Evans uses tricks which he keeps close to his vest - his stuff sounds great - so what?! 'Nuff said.

I have been working with 'music' software since 1985, then using a'Voyetra' sequencer, a PC running DOS 2.0, DX7 and an 8-bit Emu sampler. I, too, later jumped into a Pro Tools 4-track system.

Down here in Florida,I've been in small Clubs where a guy comes in - sets up his speakers and mixer, plugs in his keyboard - boots up his laptop and 'presto/chango' we have the one-man band. The kids love it - they go nuts - so do I, but for a different reason.

Excuse me but now I have to leave 'old fart land' and return to my music - spanner in hand.

Funny you should mention it but I heard that same 'patch' coming from the table next to me at Thanksgiving dinner tonight and believe me it wasn't generated by a Yamaha!

Hi Patrick,

I think Herb and his team have gone a long way toward producing a product that musicians can use. I don't mind tweaking the Performance Tool but it's a real hassle trying to diagnose a problem and then have to tweak something the software developers should have included as an 'automatic', background task. After all these years my arm is getting freakin' tired of holding the spanner.

One closing piece of advice - pawning the family silver is a tough thing to do but never pawn the family jewels - they come in very handy in this business!

Hi Sabine,

I misunderstood 'side license' - thanks for clearing that up. With my purchase of the 'Performance Set - Pro Edition', I take it the VIP discount structure is now activated. Am I correct in assuming this?

Many thanks to your company and especially Herb - a wonderful job - stunning product!