Hi JT3,

unfortunateley I can't test it in Logic 7. That would for me be interesting in a technical sense but not in a practical because logic 8 is the version which makes it possbile to have more than 4 GB of EXS loaded. Therefore even when logic 7 would have a better performance it wouldn't be a solution in this sense.

I'll test this template on a g5 dual 2 ghz next week so that i can compare how the performance difference between that and teh mac pro 8x2,8 is. Maybe thats interesting for you.

Hi Errikos!
Here is the interesting result of another user reporting a similar proplem (unfortunateley in a german forum) The user is "maiermueller": http://www.logicuser.de/...ewtopic.php?f=46&t=40202 He illustrated the problem with 2 pictures. On the 1st picture you see how acceptable the performance is with only 23 EXS-Instances of vsl repetition instruments and if you add just one single more instance of exs having a total of 24 instances the performance radically changes. This is not the same stuff which i reported but illustrates aswell how bad the exs yet seems to be optimizide at the moment. Thats especaiylly annoing to me because all other logic plug-ins and softsynths are so damn well optimized using 600 % and more of the 8 cores.

btw. I allready posted that problem to apple support but I think it is important to bring this to peoples attention. Therefore I post this proplem on other message boards aswell hoping that more people post that to apple support !

Its hard to believe but I discovered that the exs does work better on 1 core than on 8 cores.

------------------------------------------------------------Step 1: I use an 8 core Mac Pro (early 2008) with OS X 10.5.3 and Logic 8.0.2. With the Software MacPilot 3.0.4 I've deactivated 7 cores. After a newstart the mac pro runs only with 1 core -----------------------------------------------

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Step 2: That fact that only 1 core is active is represented in logics intern performance window and the os x Activity Monitor. The real bummer is that I can achieve to run stable much more multitimbral voices of EXS than I can with 8 cores active. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !

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On the other hand: When I run a song with 8 cores active the logic Intern performance shows great activity on all 8 cores while the activity monitor shows only 103 % and the CPU-Meters shows low activity. That seems a contradiction but confirms tha BAD use of 8 cores:





This phenomenon has been succsessfully replicated by other users. Go ahaed and try by yourselfe ! You won't like what you see
Frustrating isn't it !?

Can't believe it. SUPER COOL. I'd like to know how those instruments sound like !!

Hi Plowman !

When I wrote about OS X 10.5 supporting 16 GByte RAM Access for a program, i just was kidding ! Although I'm aware that one shouldn't make fun with those serious things I didn't want to make false expectations. It was more meant ironically. But who knows. Maybe my joke gets reality ! That would be cool. I wish it as intense as you do !

many greetings
Alex

Ok, you convinced me. I give up [] (it was just an idea anyway) Hopefully we will soon have 64 Bit Operating Systems or at least OS X 10.5 with Logic 7.3 managing 16 GBytes of RAM so that we don't have to be afraid or worry about even thinkin on mp3. right guys ?

Believe it or not. This was extactly the reaction I expected first when the idea came up yesterday. mp3 is asociated with I-Tunes, Robin williams downloads ...etc and all but NOT with fine sounding orchestra simulation. I'm aware of that. The day the mp3 came out I thought. Hey cool, now I can email my friends some of my pieces and it was not the birth of a new generation of Audio Processing. I understand that !
'[]'

But, hey : Don't you believe I'm a purist and a passionated musician aswell ? Come on . . . I'm one of you guys or would I even post stuff in this forum ?! When I was a little guy at the age of 5 years I allready saved my money (not eating choclates n stuff) in order to be able to buy high quality Tapes (Chrome and metal) instead of the IEC Type 1 normal tapes just to enjoy the little nuance of the sounds I recorded ''

Its juts I have this nightmare remembering the times when I had my emu sampler and was happy of being able to use 128 MBytes of RAM instead of 32 MByte from the AKAI Sampler I had before. At that time I aforded the Peter Sidlycec Library but could only use like 5 or 6 Intruments of it. Therefore I'm like a burned child with RAM limitations. Otherwise I wouldn't even think of the mp3 codec. And what happened until know ? Well we have such incredible libraries like the vsl which i consoder as a dream which come true. But buying a mac and 4 slave PC's ist not a dream for me. It remembers me of the old days where I needed several sound expanders and 2 sampler . . .

But all that is not even the point. The point is (and I'm refering to you GOURMET AUDIO LOVERS )
Are you able to hear any difference. I'm not able. With a good converted mp3 I simply cannot hear acoustically a difference. Its as I said. Just go ahead. Let your wife, your gril friend or your neighbour start up the exactly same audio file (1 converted and one not) and you'll have real difficulties to guess which of the file is the mp3 and which one is the .aif

Than the only thing which is problematic is the image of mp3. The "name" mp3 doesn't sound good to a musicians ear but the mp3 itself sounds good (its no fastfood !)

Hi Hetoreyn !

Its exactly as you said. Mp3 is fine as a finished source : For example Orchestra libraries where there is really no need to edti any sample. Who really wants to edit samples of a "ready to use" library ? I think only 1 % of the owners of orchestra libraries edited even one single sample of such a huge library. I edit some samples here and ther from Drum libraries but not huge Orchestra libraries !!

After all there are 2 arguments against the mp3 idea which are convincing :
1.) the latency produced by the decompression
2.) As you said if you add effects like for example reverb or EQ the quality loss could
be hearable

But in both cases I ask myself if anybody has made experiences which can be described a little more detailed ?

Well unfortunateley Logic converts mp3 into the native (uncompressed) format before one can start working with those files. Otherwise one could test allready if the program can handle for example a playback of 64 Voices Polyphony easyly or if that allready makes problems. Searching in google I couldn't find software samplers yet whcih support mp3 playback. So it looks like there's no way to test the performance of a G5 (my G5) in combination with mp3 files at the moment. But hasn't Christian Teuscher made it possible to integrate this realtime-decompressing algorythm in the new Vienna Instruments ? Couldn't this technique be developed for creating mp3-decompressing Vienna Instruments for example ?

Wow. i had a brilliant idea which came to my brain since a second. What if an Sample Player like the EXS24 MK2 would be able to play "MP3-SAMPLES" ! []

You got it ?! ('')
MP3's sound to the most musical ear exactly identical to .aif or .wav files while .wav files are like 10 times bigger. If you close your eyes and compare an mp3 file (with lets say 160 KByte/sec compression compared with an uncompressed .aif file) you cannot hear the difference and say which one is the non compressed and which one the mp3 file ! (check it out)

That means that all the RAM problem would be solved AT ONCE. We could hear no quality loss but would be able to load 10 times MORE samples. That means that we could load as much samples on JUST 1 Computer as if we would have 10 computers or imagine having a Powermac G5 with 40 (usable) GBytes of RAM instead of the poor 4 GByte limit we have at the moment. The Ram limitation problem would disapear at once and we would not be able to even hear any quality loss

sorry that I'm repeating myself over and over again. But the solution is soooo stupid and simple that I can't even believe it I hadn't thought of that before. Because I have been thinking know for month day by day and even in the bed for a solution of having an entire orchestra on 1 computer even studying and reading all the incredible amazing projects and experiments of evenevans, stupid8track ... etc. and than after having thought day and night for month of it ... boooooom ... such a stupid and simple idea.

I'll go for it and check if EXS can handle mp3 files know. Did anybody of you guys had the same idea and experiment with that before ? Does someone know a software-sampler which handles mp3's ? Maybe it could be enough to convert all samples refering to an instrument to mp3's leaving them with the file sufix .aif and relink it or something. Or someone yet has to program a solution for it. I'm not a freak in this area and have not much of knowledge. Just had the idea.

I'm not saying that mp3's are a reemplacement for high-quality 24Bit samples ! (Of course I'm NOT saying such a thing) BUT until we don't have a super computer or a great 64 Bit Operating System which easily handles 32 GBytes of RAM and more to load a full orchestra at once, the mp3 solution would be a great relief in meantime wouldn't it ?

In the Main window (Arrange-Window) you should click in the Menu called "Functions" and there select the menu "track" and there you can create Tracks as for example Audio Tracks or Audio Instrumets. If that doesn't work there seems to be somethin wrong with your logic, I think.
Hope that helps somehow

greetings
Alex

I'm so happy to hear from you that quick !
Your manual is very helpfull and I understand the basics (of how it should work).
But allthough the manual is well written (especially helpfull are the pictures) it was not helpfull enough in finding out how to make my masterkeyboard changing Keyswitches.

But I could find it ut by myself ! Not because I understood the manual but because I experimented like 2 days (12 hours) switching between almost all possible combinations and finally had the idea to put a MONITOR between Logics Physical Input and the Articulation Tool. So I could see that my Keyboard was sending all the Note-On's at the Nr. 6.

Why 6 ? This was unexpected. Consequently I changed the Midi-Channel of the Articulation Tool to 6 and this was the (even more unexpected) solution !

To me (as a experienced user of Logic Audio) it was weired to find out that my Masterkeyboards notes in Logic Audio arrive on Channel 6 allthough the Midi-Channel 1 is connected and displayed on my Unitor USB Midi-Interface ! I don't really understand this but I don't have to I'm happy that the Stuff is working and very satisfied. I'm gonna have much much Fun with your super creative and intelligent Tool (+working solution) and I'm damn Gratefull and its an honour for me being one of the "beta-tester" of your tool ... yeeeaah !

Finally :
In order to help users in future I suggest that you integrate a sentence in your .pdf file where you give the hint to use a monitor in between of the Physical Input and the articulation-Tool in order to find out the Midi-Channel-Nr. and than select this one in the Articulation Tool so that "beginers" as I am have it more easy to figure out.

Happy Xmess to you ( and all vsl-users [] )
alex

... Maybe its (as I mentioned above) my older logic version which makes the problem (as there is this warning message that it could make problems to open this Logic 7 File with Logic Version 6 but I don't believe that ...

The Articulation Tool seems to be more and more fantastic as I think about it. But I can't handle it. I'm like to stupid. Could someone who managed to assign his masterkeyboard (without any additional controlers) please explain me how to make this or EVEN BETTER : email me or upload a Articulation Tool Template which makes it possible to do keyswitching at the lowest Octave of a 88-Key Master-Keyboard sending Midi Notes at Midi Channel 1 ?!
That would be sooo great !

greetings
guayalex

Okey Dokey, I send ya the filez ! (I didn't send the old version artic. Tool Vers. 1 as the new one replaces it)

Hi Hetoreyn !

no prob. I can send you the tool + pdf and all the other files from Kai refering to that tool. I know of the problem with the links. That's a pitty.

So give us the link and I'll upload the stuff. Or I'll send to your email adress. (which way would you prefer ?) Its a good thing that you'll upload it for all the other visitors who'd like to use it.

greetings
Alex

Hallo Kai (and others) !

About me
1st of all. I'm new to this forum (i come from germany) and I'm not yet a user of Vienna Symphonic stuff. I have much of experience with orchestra samples using oldies like (Peter Sydliezec or Miroslav Vitous) for Akai using them on Logic Pro on a Mac G4 (OS X Panther) and I'm soon going to by a G5 2*2GHz or even a G5 Quad (which depedns on the Perfromance Boost it offers).

My Question
I LOVE your Articulaion Tool. You applied your Knowledges about Logic Audio in a genius end very intelligent way. I can't emagine any better solution and besides that it feels good that there are people out there who (like you) share there knowledges and effrots over the Internet (even for free!) I hope you'll earn money with your knowledge in future.

Well I downloaded the Articulation Toll V.2 in order to make it run with my Orchestra Sample libraries and opened it with Logic 6 Pro. There was a "warning" message telling me that I'm opening a document made with a newer Version of Logic. I suspect its a Logic Version 7 Song but after I clicked on "Ok" it opened in my Logic 6 Program anyway. And it seems to work fine. I'm especially interested in the ALTERNATION section of your tool. The point is that when I click on a sequence and select for example the Sequence Nr. 4 it works fine and swithces between the articulations Nr. 3 and 4 while I'm playing. BUT when I want to program a new sequence it doesn't work. I don't know if I understood something wrong or if the problem apears because its made in Logic 7 ?

I hit the record button and play note for note on my keyboard and switch the different Playing techniques qith my mouse in between. And after I did so i hit again the record button to deactivate record mode. The previous sequence is deleted but it only stays in 1 Playing technique (for example Nr.3) and doesn't javascript:emoticonswitch anymore. So the Sequence seems definiteley to be overwritten but not with the techniques I selected with the mouse. Is there another way of programing alternation sequences (not playing on the keyboard but writing it directly somewhere) or should I simply update to Logic 7 in order to make the tool work properly ? Its a shame bothering you with this question. javascript:emoticon('')
Therefore please only answear to my question, when you really have the time left to do so.

Many greetings from germany
Alex