"Big Top Hijinks" and "Saga Symphonic Poem" are tough acts to follow but here's something I wrote for a local fireworks display for the 4th of July.

Unfortunately, They went with another composers work, Umm... Some guy named Tchaikovsky or something and some Overture 1812 or something or other.

Anyway, Their loss is your gain so enjoy

Light Up The Sky

BTW Even though I wrote it for the 4th of July it'll probably work for any country's independence/patriotic day.

It does make more sense nowadays because thanks to the VSL miracle of Humanization it really isn't necessary to play sloppy lines anymore unless of course you're trying to create a specific effect.  Now I've gotten into the habit of play, record and then quantize.  Back in the olden days the quantize step was unthinkable.  I mean what kind of a boob quantizes a virtual orchestra performance?  Well now I am a proud card carrying member of the Boob Club

 

I know the feeling.

What amazes me is how clear and delicate the softer sections of the piece sound.  At first I listened in my car, as I usually do, but those softer sections were canceled out by the road noise drone so I had to listen again at home on some cheap laptop speakers.  But even with the low quality speakers the quiet sections were so soothing even when tension was buuilding. 

I've always had a hard time MIDIstrating Pianissimo.  It always sounds too heavy handed or even blaring but William makes it look easy.

Another triumph as usual William and thanks for posting.

BTW the conversation about MIDI to notation transcribing is rather scary because I wa about to embark on the same arduous journey with my work.  Not sure if it will help me but I always compose a piano arrangement of my larger orchestral works because piano arrangements are a skeletal representation of the larger piece and you can at least get an idea of the themes and harmonies.  Again, I don't know if that would make a difference.   

Je ne peux pas parler Français donc j'espère que ce Google Translate est logique, mais une autre chose que vous pouvez essayer est la mise à jour de votre logiciel de carte son.

 

I can't speak French so I hope this Google Translate makes sense but another thing you can try is updating your sound card software.

What exactly do you want to know about the velocity layers?

Since you put it that way William you have a good point and my comment that you're reffering to was a bit premature in retrospect.  Damn it! I hate it when I do that  In fact, now that you mentioned it, at times I have been immensely impressed to the point of shock and awe (...er, um, surprised?) of just how much life samples can breathe into my compositions.

In addition, you and Seventh Sam brought up some other excellent points that I hadn't considered.  I really like your "head phones in a dark bedroom" idea because that's pretty much me except most of the time it's in my car driving.  

Considering that the vast majority of Classical music was composed before the miracle of digital recording it was written with a live performance in mind.  A live performance in front of an audience.  Things like, EQ, sound engineering, mastering, balance levels, and reverb never entered Mozart's or Bach's mind.  They weren't worried about putting some compression on the fortissimo part to prevent clipping they just wrote the music and left it to the players for interpretation.  So personally, if I go to a concert, I go to see a live orchestra playing Classical music but I enjoy a professional recording of the music too. 

Even though I come from a Pop background, I stopped going to Pop concerts a long time ago for the reasons that Seventh Sam mentioned.  Not only that, but with Pop music you're missing out on the artistic contributions of the sound engineer and the producer if you just go to the concerts and not bother listening to the recorded material.  With Classical music the recorded version would sound pretty much the same as the live assuming the same orchestra performed and recorded it.

Anyway, I think I'm beginning to ramble so I better quit.  Great discussion! Haven't had one of these on the forum in a while.  Thank you everybody for contributing. 

I went away for a while but was pleasantly surprised to see what an interesting discussion this has evolved into.

I did enjoy the sampled version but probably would have enjoyed watching the live performance even more.  My comment was more about the recording and not the performance itself.  The players were very talented skillful and performed the piece competently.  Even the guy turning pages for the pianist was good.  I mean have you ever seen pages being turned with so much expressiveness and depth of feeling? 

If ever given the choice between listening to a master recording of a Classical work or watching it performed live by a professional orchestra, well that's a no brainer, I would definately watch the performance live.  However, I must admit that technical ability with an instrument doesn't impress me nearly as much as the ability to compose a piece of music that touches me in some way or leaves an emotional impression on me. 

I have a friend who is a huge YoYo Ma fan and, one day, he was going on and on about how great Yo Yo Ma was and just for grins and giggles I asked him "How much would you pay to watch Yo Yo Ma play scales? Just an evening with Yo Yo Ma and the Major and Minor scales.  How much."

He thought about it then said, "However much he wanted because those would be the best damn scales I've ever heard."  Now, don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for Yo Yo Ma and other musicians as technically skilled as he is but I think he would have to pay me to come in and watch him play scales.  I guess some people just like watching a skilled performer up on stage working his or her magic.  It's just not the same as listening to a recording of Yo Yo Ma you have to see him live like sports fans who'll fly all the way across the country/world to watch their favorite player.  I'd rather just watch it on TV.

There was a similar thread like this some years back and I think it was Errikos who said something to the effect of one nice thing about having your music performed live as opposed to programming is that sometimes the players will surprise you with their handling of your music.  Much like a screenwriter or playwrite is surprised when an actor performs a part he wrote in a completely different, but better, way than the writer imagined.  So you could find yourself pleasantly surprised with not only players but with arrangers too.  Somebody could take your music and shine an entrely different light on the piece making it better than you imagined.  So that's possible but not with samples. 

According to the Vienna Instruments page it says, "After having purchased and registered any Vienna Instruments Library Product* you may download the free Vienna Instruments sample player software from MyDownloads."

Not only that but, "The free Vienna Ensemble mixing host is automatically installed with the Vienna Instruments player that comes with every Vienna Instruments Library Product*. "

So you get the hosting software free along with the VI player free.

I believe the (*) refers to libraries that have their own dedicated player and I'm guessing Synchron would have something similar.

If you want to try out the other pay for software products you can request a free demo license which I think will give you about 30 starts.

Enjoy   

VI Pro will work for any of your VI libraries but I don't think it works for Synchron libraries (Synchronized? Not sure).

VI Pro is like a force multiplier for your sample arsenal and I recommend it for any of the VI libraries. I strongly recommend it for the SE collections because you can create variations in repeating notes, time stretch, and humanize which will make your MIDI performances more convincing. 

Are you running it as a standalone or within a DAW? Notation?

The Special Editions are derived from the larger VI libraries so I would imagine that as long as the larger collections are available so will the SE.

The brass doesn't sound half bad actually. Pretty good coming from the SE collections.

Unfortunately the dat... dat... dat... dat... dat... dat... strings is kind of annoying. I'm guessing the SE libraries are limited in variations so it's hard to not get a machine gun effect but that's what I'm hearing.

So how to deal with that? Well consider purchasing VI Pro because it has neat tools like Humanize and start offset that will help get some variation with repeating notes

But in lieu of VI Pro set your tunning fader to about 20 cents then play with the fader while recording. Also. Mess with the velocity x fader and or the Expression to vary volume levels slightly.

Another trick is to vary the tempo to not more than 5 or 6 BPM fast and slow. Slightly lengthen and shorten notes.

Also, if you have a smaller string ensemble like solo strings then layer the strings with solos being about 60% less volume but vary that too.

The key to these tricks is subtlety. If it draws attention to itself then it's too obvious. You just want the listeners brain to think, 'the notes are the same but they're not quite the same and I don't know why.'

But I'm kind of wondering what the piece would sound like without the string staccato.

Overall the whole piece sounds a little dry especially the strings.

I hope some or all of this was helpful.

I see you joined the forum in July of 2008. Your Vienna key isn't 11 years old is it?

If updating doesn't work than there's nothing anybody can do for you here you'll have to contact VSL support.

(Deleted)

Hey Dave, (or Becky?)
Long time no hear:-(
Has this piece been rerendered since 2016?  because i'm going to respectfully disagree with Jos and Anand. i think the piece is fine just the way it is.  There are a few minor inconsistencies here and there but they are too few to be noticed in a ten minute performance.

On the other hand, maybe my ears are not as astute and educated as Jos and Anand's ears. i'm sure you have discovered that the more intimate the venue the more difficult it is to convince the listener.  You can't just lather it all up in more reverb after all.

Also, I think I like the VSL version better than the live but, to be fair, it sounds as though the live version was hastily recorded with a single mic placed center stage.

As for the piece itself well it's like "milk and honey" flowing into my ears. In short, it's very David Carovillanoesque. It's like a travel diary expressed through music describing the excitement, discovery and fear that's associated with traveling a great distance along a long and precarious path.

Thank you for reposting and i'm glad to see you still keep an eye on the forum. 


>

This is sounds nice.  I don't have any complaints at all.

Was this piece rendered with the SE or full libraries?

BTW I have to commend you and everybody else that performs other composers work with samples.  It's very risky because we are all used to hearing a well known piece performed by a live professional orchestra and when you hear the same piece done with samples the flaws become immediately apparent.  It really tests your MIDIstration skills which you seemed to have mastered here.  I've only recently built up enough courage to try rendering classics with samples.  We'll see how that goes.

Thank you for posting.

I think I agree 

Yeah this sounds very nice indeed.  However, if I may suggest, maybe speed up and slow down the tempo a little especially slow down toward the end of the melody lines.  For some reason this sounded like it was played at a single tempo all the way through which wouldn't be natural.

But a fine piece overall. 

In order to survive in the market place companies must continue to evolve and innovate over time which ensures top quality products giving the custormer more choice.  The company that offers more choice to the customer will flurish while those that offer the same ol' same ol' will stagnate.  I think Synchron is just an example of that evolutionary and innovative process for VSL.

So with Synchron we, the customer, now have more choice in order to meet our needs.  Synchron has its advantages, while VI has its advantages, and you'll just have to decide which works best for you.  Of course, as Stephen points out, maybe what's best for you is to have both products because they compliment each other.

Going forward, my guess is more time and resources will be poured into the Synchron side of the house because it's new and fresh.  Once Synchron is up to speed with VI then VSL will finally release "Boys Choir Syncron" with "Boys Choir Silent Stage."  Take your pick.

Just a shot in the dark guess.   

Funny? I don't really notice those sounds all that much but have you tried EQ 'ing the sounds out?

Are you using the VI pro player?

You could try adjusting the Start Offset which might reduce some of those noises.  I know it works really well to reduce that initial pick noise on the Overdrive guitar but you could try it for the key noises too.

 

As for your second question VI refers to the Vienna Player which plays the dry samples from the Silent Stage sample libraries while the Synchron samples were recorded in the Synchron concert hall so, yes, Synchron has the reverb baked into the samples.  At least that's how I understand it I just have VI products no Synchron.

Like I said, it could be a bunch of things but it's usually an update that got missed or memory.

As for the clipping it usually sounds like bits of static while the sound file is playing.  If your meters are pegged to the red then maybe adjust the expression fader down in the Vienna player and see if it's still in the red.

Well Paul glad to see you completed your symphony.  9 or 10 months of work?  And here we thought computers and technology were going to make things go faster yeah right.

Anyway, it's a beautiful piece full of dynamics and deep emotions to savior from start to finish.  As I was telling William about his Romantic Symphony it's pieces like his and, your Summer Symphony, that have put virtual orchestras on the map of serious music composition.  Let's hope the major players in this game can keep an open mind with regard to how folks like us express our musical ideas.

There was one thing in your piece that did bother me a little but it might have been my listening environment (my car) The timpanis seemed blury to my ears.  Like I could hear a rumble but no punch.  Unless that was intentional?

Virtual Orchestral percussion can be tricky and one trick I do is parallel compression or processing.  Basically, you copy the timpani track and mix it in dry with the wet one.  That will bring out more detail. Of course the timpanis will be louder so you'll have to link the two volumes together and reduce the gain considerably.

Thanks for posting.

William, I'm at a loss of words.

If there was ever a glaring example of the prowess capability and potential of the "Virtual Orchestra"  your Romantic Symphony is that example.  And not just any virtual orchestra but The Vienna Symphonic Library. If Herb or any of the VSL team listen to this piece then I think they have every right to feel just as proud of it as you must feel because 99.999% of it is completely indiscernible from a live orchestra. Of course it wouldn't be possible without a competent and skilled virtual orchestrator such as yourself waving the baton. This piece surely makes the case that the virtual orchestra is a medium for composition that needs to be taken seriously in professional music circles once and for all.

I'm sorry to say that I wasn't able to listen to the entire piece but from the 20 minutes I heard I was just blown away by the expressiveness and naturalism demonstrated in the performances.  The composition itself was lyrical and filled with emotion conveyed by a beautiful arrangement but not to the point of pretentiousness which is characteristic of some bombastic Romantic symphonies.

So thank you for posting, not just this piece, but all of the wonderful work you have done over the years.

It could be a bunch of different things.

First thing: are you sure the signal isn't clipping?

Second: What soundcard are you using and are the drivers up to date?  Are they at the proper setting for your DAW?

Well I think the most popular method of creating a 2nd violin section is the so-called transposition trick.  Basically, you duplicate the 1st violins then you use the tune fader to transpose the duplicate section up or down a half step or whole step.  That way, the duplicate section is using different samples thus becoming a 2nd section.  Make sense?

Also, I like to layer my violins differently.  For example the 1st VIs I'll use Orchestral VI layered with Chamber VI then the 2nd VI's Chamber with Solo VI or Orchestral with Solo VI.

I went to school in Tallahassee (FSU) which most Floridians consider to be Southern Georgia and, as a poor college student, I couldn't afford air conditioning so I know what you mean by listining to the cicadas and crickets through open windows on Summer nights.

I miss the South.  Not the climate so much but the people.  Southern hospitality isn't just a catch phrase it really means something.  Yeah, I miss the people, the food, and the pretty college girls with those cute southern accents.