incidentally, there is another new feature with Dorico 3.5 Expression Maps which I feel has the potential to be very useful for the Synchron player. You now have the ability in the use Secondary Dynamic feature to scale the values proportionately to the primary. Assuming we're using VelXF as the primary then we have the ability to modify this with a "pure volume" CC11 (Expression) value. Previously this was impracticable as the contrasts with an exact match of the primary were too great and uneven but now we have a genuine answer to the justifiable complaint that the minimum dynamic was too loud. Set a min. of somewhere in the 60-70 range and maximum a little below 127 probably -- I'm still testing so this is only an initial suggestion -- and you will be able to get a wider dynamic range than before but remain musical. Sure, this won't fade completely to silence but most people won't need that very often and when it is required, simply insert a manual CC11 hairpin to zero as has been previously suggested.

David

indeed! Obviously there's been a little confusion here for which I also apologise. The comparison I meant was between the original solo strings and the new version with extra violin 2 and cello 2 and not the difference between the VI and Synchron versions. I can see in retrospect that what I wrote could have been interpreted more than one way!

Originally Posted by: AntoineM

Hello,

For example, you pick the preset "Violin 1 Full" (not the basic one), then in the tree: "D - Phrases" → "G - Halftone Trill" or  "G# - Wholetone Trill"

Don't you see those patches ?

Thank you for your expression maps by the way, I will use them 

hope you find the maps useful. I'm sure you'll find things you want to change to your own ways of using the solo strings but I find they've worked quite well for me.

yes of course there are trills for violin 1. I'm taking about the new instruments and specified violin 2 in the Dorico thread. Seems we were talking about different things.

there are so called performance trills which are not of course the half or whole note trills available in the original instruments which is what I want. I can find neither in the sample content list nor the instrument itself "real" trills but if I've missed something, I will be happily corrected by someone from VSL.

I do understand that the performance trills could work fine in the live environment but  in Dorico, it would presumably be necessary to write out the trill in full and then hide it and replace it with a non-playing normal trill which can be done, I think somehow, if very fiddly. Perhaps I'll investigate this, though. Certainly the artificial trills in Dorico are invariably horrible so that's out the question.

in this thread https://www.steinberg.ne...c.php?f=246&t=189278 I've recently added my Expression Maps for all the Synchronised Solo Strings. These include use of the Dorico 3.5 specific NoteLength conditions. Despite my complaints there about missing articulations in the new instruments (seriously, how can you not even include trills!), I'm in general pretty happy I upgraded my VI version.

that's more like it!

the 6.5 update from this morning is not working at all for me either on win10 - first issue in about 15 years with VE that I can remember. No error messages but it fails to connect automatically (after trying 2-3 times depending on host) and if you try to connect manually, simply get dialog "cannot connect to service".

Uninstall/reinstall/reboot -- all the usual stuff. What's happened here? If it's not possible to fix quickly could the previous version be made availalble again?

I'm enjoying trying out this library as well and there are certainly some new expressive possibilities. Using the "basic" template with one or two additions and changes makes it fairly easy easy to programme. There is one thing -- and I think this is more a question about the whole Synchron player -- is that I cannot find a way to properly programme the dynamics for individual patches. Sure you can set an overall volume but how do you set the dynamic range? In VI this can easily be done by lowering or raising the floor for instance. I particularly would like the Dynamic patches to have more flexibility.

I suppose as a workaround, you can vary the CC11 level but it should be doable within the player. I know there have been one or two posts about dynamic range in Synchron in general but am I missing something here on my particular query?

David

glad to be of help.

Incidentally, it looks like I've now completed a Dorico expression map for this library that works OK (though I'm sure it's not 100% perfect). The Sibelius soundset was in fact quite useful in giving a few pointers as to how best  include the Sordino patches in the construction. Unfortunately, as was discussed elsewhere, there's no mapping for the player combinations in the soundset. It seems that in Sib you can use technique commands but am I correct in saying that in Dorico, I'l need to use the keyswitches?

David

UPDATE Have added the Tutti and Divisi 1 and 2 player combinations (other than Doublebass) with keyswitches. It's boring but I guess I'll do the desks as well over the next few days. Perhaps I'll post then if no-one has come up with anything better in the meantime.

Still, I seem not to be the only one making mistakes! The VE SY Special Edition soundset appears to have an error. The Dimension Strings Double Basses have A0/A#0 for Sordino but this is actually mapped to A5/A#5 unlike the other instruments. I attach an amended version which now correctly triggers the mutes. (I apologise if there is  a later version which has corrected this but 13/2/20 seems to be the latest I could see)

What an idiot I am! I thought I'd done everything but entirely forgot that as well as the Playback configuration, I also at the "Add or Remove Instrument" level needed to change the old instruments for the Dimension ones. Despite not yet having the benefit of your expert Expression Maps for Dorico, I still somehow find it easier as it doesn't plague you with soundID's and the like....

many thanks, David

Although I've now switched to Dorico, I have a lot of Sibelius projects and a few I want to try out with the Synchronised versions of the Special Edition. Checking with the guide and ensuring I have the latest VE SY Special Edition soundset installed etc, I've Vol 1 and 2 working fine. But the Dimension Strings vol 5 behaves quite bizzarely. In all instruments, it consistently switches between just Short and Dynamics articulations irrespective what I write in the music. It's as if C#1 and D1 simply don't exist in the soundset but of course I've checked just to make sure and I see no errors. I should make it clear I have also been careful to ensure both the soundID and the Programs have Dimension selected and everything looks fine in the mixer. The Dimension strings work fine in Dorico (other than the missing Dimension articulations and instrument switching features obviously as I haven't created a specific EM for Dimension as yet) with my standard SE strings Expression Maps.

What could possibly be going on with Sibelius?

David

Originally Posted by: EricNJ

Dave -

We're in the same boat here.   Dorico is not perfect, but it is so far ahead of Sibelius in usability and reliability that there is no competition.    I do not know how VSL orchestral libraries compare with NotePerformer, but NotePerformer sounds pretty darn good to my ears - and is reasonably priced. 

But I do miss the VSL solo strings which are superior to Halion.  As an ex software guy I know that software companies have to juggle priorities.  I could be mistaken (it happens on an all too regular basis) but from where I'm sitting it looks like VSL is making the wrong choice in not prioritizing Dorico development.

Eric

Actually NotePerformer and VSL I find to be chalk and cheese. The musical intelligence built into NP can make for a naturally expressive and exciting performance of symphonic music with very little user input. The more important actual tone quality becomes, the more likely VSL would be the tool of choice. Chamber music in general is still too crude with NP.  You may be right that VSL is prioritising Sibelius development which would be a shame as I've switched entirely to Dorico for new compositions. For the VSL Special Editions, it's really not too hard to make your own Expression Maps according to your needs --even I have managed it -- but for full string libraries (I use the solo strings) in particular, VSL would please many by producing EM's just as fast as they can manage.

Another voice for taking another look at the way dynamic range is programmed in the Synchron player based so far on my experiences withe SY-ized SE version. Fortunately, in Dorico there is a dynamics lane which allow local changes which in 99% of cases should give acceptable results and other software will often have similar features.

Also, the last thing I would want is for the much smoother programming of dynamics in the brass in particular with the Synchron player v VI Pro would get thrown out of the window. But there is a case to answer nonetheless!

Originally Posted by: bbelius

Hi Dewdman,

Just right-click on the volume meter in the mixer :)

Best, Ben

Nice! But that presumably only copies the volume settings and to get all the mixer settings, you'd need to do the same on Pan, reverb, EQ and Delay as well? Or does clicking on any one save all?

have managed to get the channel change to work in Dorico. Although the software does not yet allow you to add a new instrument to a player which is not already in the list, in Setup you can create a copy of something already existing  and just rename it, thus creating in the Play window the essential additional track for allocating to a different MIDI channel. The beauty is it doesn't appear in the score so you can don't need to do an instrument change at all -- simply create the articulation " mute" and the Expression Map directs you to the new channel you've selected. The Synchron mute instrument articulations largely map the non-mute ones so no additional programming is required. Just remember to include the reset to original channel command in the default "nat", otherwise you stay mute for ever!

PS I have not yet really checked to see if I can see any issues reported by one or two users that the dynamic level isn't inherited between the channels, resulting in volume jumps. If I can confirm this, I'll report back

Originally Posted by: andi

David, the SYNCHRON-ized Special Edition presets "02 Trumpet I (C)" and "03 "Trumpet I (C) muted" have different EQ settings and different impulses. Nevertheless, you can of course combine them in one preset, if it helps your workflow.

Best regards,
Andi

OK, I see what you mean -- the EQ settings are somewhat different and when listening closely, there is indeed a difference. Mute copied into the normal instrument lacks something of the raw distinctiveness of timbre which you hear when the original instrument is used. I'll perhaps try the channel change and see if I can get that to work.

ok -- I see what you were getting at with your methodology and thanks again for going to the trouble. As for the "what am I missing?", this was more directed at Andi who warned about the possible downside to this approach. Perhaps he will chip in later with further clarification.

Thanks for your detailed description, Dewdman42, and I endorse your suggestion to VSL. It may be that I've misunderstood something as my procedure seems simpler than yours. My task was initally simply the following -- to merge the Special Edition mute trumpets and trombones contents into the primary instruments. I just did the following following Andi's suggestions:

1. go to the mute instrument and right click in empty space and "copy root slot"

2. in the main instrument, click on the + to create a new articulation in the articulation column and call it "mute"

3. right click and "paste slot". The entire mute tree structure is then copied into this slot. In the Dorico Expression Map, you simply add F#1 (assuming default mapping) to access the mute articulations you want to use.

I can understand that mixer impulses are different between different instruments and that they wouldn't be carried across but I can't see any mixer settings which differ between mute and standard trumpets. In practical terms what, if anything, is it I'm actually losing with this approach?

David

could you possibly give an example, Andi. I don't see anything myself.

By the way, I've got my trumpet sorted out fine in Dorico, now as far as I can see. I take your point about Sibelius, incidentally, and indeed used your tips in the "Optimizing Sibelius Playback. I just don't use it for new compositions any more.

that's exactly what I was looking for! I didn't realise that you could copy the entire tree from one instrument to a new slot in the first dimension as I'm still thinking a bit in VI mode. I'll try this out and if losing the instrument-specific impulses does prove to be irritating then I still have the MIDI switching option. Many thanks!

Hi Andi,

Thanks very much for getting back to me. I understood that you can effectively copy the articulations of an entire instrument by means of the "copy root slot" but if you paste it into the other instrument, it simply erases the original articulations whereas I want to add them to the original. Of course it's possible to copy individual patch slots and add to the "type" list but that's more tedious.

I take your point that it's anyway not ideal to mix instruments from the point of view of the Synchron player. The fact remains that in notation software, a muted trumpet is not a different instrument from an unmuted one and cannot be set up as one -- at any rate in Dorico. It is possible to switch MIDI channels (assuming using VE) to a different instrument in the Expression Maps but some have advised against that, due to a volume reset when switching.

Perhaps there is no obvious or ideal solution but I'm interested in what you would do im my position? Of course simply staying with the VI Pro instruments remains an option!

best wishes, David

Apologies if this has come up before but I can't find an answer to what should be a simple question as I continue to try out the Synchron player. I sometimes have a situation in VI Pro where I want to add a matrix to an existing instrument -- for instance the situation where mute trumpets in the SE are a completely different instrument but I want to integrate the mute patches into the normal instrument. Dead easy-- you just copy the matrix from the mute instrument to the standard one.

But I simply can't find the equivalent in the Synchron player. What should I be doing? Many thanks!

that's very helpful, Mike. I realised that using velocity as the main volume controller isn't ideal but hadn't fully realised the potential consequences. It is interesting that the Synchron libraries default to CC7 for main volume whereas the VI versions default to velocity. That perhaps tells you something! I suspect that indeed it's the keyswitches sending new channel volume info which is causing the disruption although I'm not sure why it only seems to be really problematical in Dorico. Interestingly enough, as I test further, it seems that although brass and woodwind clearly cause the spikes, it's only really audible with strings. I attach a very simple project with just the vln1 extracted so you hear what happens -- the first few bars should be enough. If you don't have access to the the Synchron-ized SE vol1, then you probably won't be able to really replicate. Alternatively you could then just create a short test piece with violins from the full string library and set Master volume to velocity in Synchron (not necessary in the Expression Map) and simply use your CC11 to map VelX in both.

I agree entirely that VelX is the way to go as dynamic controller for most instruments. If I decided to go for the Synchron libraries then I'll probably just have to practice getting an efficient workflow for this using the CC7/11 or whatever lane. It may be, though, that you will immediately see a specific reason in my example for the problem.

In my opinion, the Synchron libraries I have tried give a somewhat greater transparency of sound and fewer issues with odd dynamic changes in the brass among other things so I am considering the upgrade though it's not so cheap if I want to get vol2 as well (I'd need to add a few articulation in the VI version to allow the upgrade). I take it that you are convinced it's worth doing? I also have the VI solo strings and will be interested in seeing what Synchron does to them when they are released.

David