I don't do anything fancy in VEP -- for an orchestra 3 instances for woodwinds, brass and strings+percussion. My BBC Core is supplemented by cor anglais, bass clarinet and contrabassoon from VSL Special Edition was they are missing in Core. I don't use instrument-level reverb as my fairly modest system wouldn't thank me. I tried MIR Pro -- no doubt excellent, but I don't have the system resources for such a thing and usually simply use a (usually Altiverb) single main bus reverb and very little in the way of other plugins, although Dorico includes most of the relevant ones from Cubase Pro and of course VEP also provides quite a few.

Dorico can use orchestral libraries from any of the main vendors. My own preference is for VSL for smaller ensembles and BBC (or Cinematic Studio) for large, romantic symphony orchestras as the sound is rather warmer to my taste. VSL is probably the most straightforward to programme.

just a little point -- it is strongly advised in Dorico to use VEP with the BBC libraries, not only for performance reasons as some systems like mine seem to struggle in the single timbral mode, but also because if you use the decoupled mode, you can exit Dorico but still leave VEP running with the template which means there's no need to spend ages reloading the instruments (the BBC is notoriously slow to load the patches) just because you close Dorico or want to switch to a different project.

the dynamic lanes in Dorico use the  notated dynamics and the value of the controller which is assigned to be the primary controller (volume dynamic) in the Expression Map. CC11 only controls the secondary dynamic if you set it to do so in the EM. If you simply tick "use secondary dynamic" then the value will be set to match that in the volume dynamic but you are free to scale, the secondary dynamic by changing the max and/or min values as shown in the illustration (using solo strings -- I don't have the Prime library). I do this with most VSL libraries, otherwise the dynamic contrasts can be too large if using VelXF patches which I always do with VSL libraries.

As it's the Christmas season, I though I'd put a link to a work I composed a year ago at this time of the year using the weird and wonderful Special Edition volume 7, the Historical Instruments. Just the strings and piano come from elsewhere in VSL. Had a good deal of fun writing this and it doesn't demand an inordinate amount of concentration! It can be found on my Reelcrafter site under this link

Concertino for Piano and Ancient Instruments

https://play.reelcrafter.com/dko22/symphonies

David

One problem which is sometimes encountered is that playing techniques are not always cancelled by new ones, although Dorico does have a feature of automatically setting up EM exclusions so this should be minimized. However, it's not entirely reliable and you need to be able to understand the difference between "attribute" and "direction" in playback techniques -- the former, which are often articulations like staccato or tenuto, only apply to the actual notes they are on and the latter continue until cancelled. You can only be sure if one technique will cancel another by checking the mutual exclusions in the map. And you need to remember that if you use a slur for instance together with another playing technique, then this combination must be specified in the map, otherwise things simply won't work. 

As Andi says, it's a good idea to perform a reset "ord" when in difficulty.

Hi Gerard,

I use the SYzd Solostrings and have created my own Expression Maps for them in Dorico as I find it gives better control and I know what I've done. They all work OK as far as I can see. If I remember correctly, the VSL maps also are based on the basic patches rather than the full set (where quite a number could not easily be translated into notation as Andi has said).

It might be worthwhile if you post this problem also on the Dorico forum where perhaps more people would see it and try to help. If you post there for instance a brief sample project, I'll have a look and see if I can find a reason for your problems.

David

if you really want an honest opinion then I will give it - it does sound to me a bit flat and there is little in the way of through phrasing -- it's all rather bitty somehow. There's nothing really bad and one has to take into account there is a limit to what one can reasonably do with the VI Special Edition. For me, such a library is too clinical to give the sort of glow and fervour one really needs for this particular music unless you put a huge amount of effort into moulding it and even then, it's not so straightforward -- I doubt I'd have done any better. Perhaps something like the Appassionata Strings would be more the ticket here, not sure.

not bad at all --one of your more profound pieces, I think and at least you understand that it is actually a good idea to choose a choir that can sing free text (i.e only EW choirs currently) as it does make a difference even if you can't understand everything.

it seems that after a new update to the Vienna Assistant, it realised its mistake and prompted for the PLUS extensions to be installed which appears to have gone through successfully. Panic over!.

I am just in the process of finally converting my Synchron libraries to iLok. Most things seem so far to have gone OK but there is an issue with the Special Edition vol1 and 2. Both of these have PLUS extensions and the Vienna Assistant recognises this and defaults to selecting them for installation. However, the extensions are clearly not being downloaded as if I check the downloaded size, vol1 is 21.2 Gb and vol2 is 16.0 Gb. These are the download sizes without extension and all the PLUS articulations are missing in the projects. This is despite the fact that the Vienna Assistant incorrectly claims the extension have been installed.

How do I add the PLUS extensions?

I though it would be a nice idea to try out the Soft Imperial piano as a quick way of checking there would be no problem running my present eLicenser libraries together with a single new iLok one. A mistake! When I installed this library using the Vienna Assistant, it also installed a new iLok version of the Synchron player which seemingly overwrote my old one and as a result, my entire Synchron collection was no longer available. I only managed to recover after uninstalling the Synchron player and reinstalling the old one (v1.1.2063) for eLicenser.

I have no idea how it is possible to try out this piano or any other free instrument without trashing my existing installation. I have no time or desire to convert my libraries to iLok at this stage. Any suggestions? I'm also unclear whether this piano should be accessed through the iLok Synchron player or whether there is possibly an iLok Synchron piano corresponding to the eLicenser Vienna Synchron pianos, though I see no sign of such a thing

UPDATE Reading further, it seems that it is impossible to mix Synchron eLicenser and Synchron iLok libraries. If this is the case, then I clearly cannot try out or purchase any new libraries until conversion. 

shame -- I had feared as much!

I'd like to be able to use a Cubase/Dorico fx reverb plug-n like REVerence in VEPro. I have added the folder location to the search path but nothing shows up. Are these simply unsupported in VEPro and have to be run only from within Steinberg products or have I missed something fundamental here?

many thanks, David

I don't have the full sax library, only the SE vol2 in both formats and find that very good for what it is but agree here that a synchronized version would be very welcome and would likely get more support than you might think.

I find articulation management and Expression Maps far easier and more powerful in Dorico than Cubase. I don't use Cubase much any more other than for a handful of audio management features etc.

I replied in more detail on the Dorico forum but in brief, it's certainly advisable to also use (cheap crossgrade if necessary) the Synchonized versions of the muted brass. Then there is an easy fix of creating a new mute instrument for your trombone player in Dorico setup and simply switch to it when required as the articulations are the same as far as I can see and so no additional mute-specific articulations are required at all in the relevant Expression Maps.

Exactly what I though had probably happened. As the SE only supports artificial harmonics, it is natural to want the EM entry to show that but as the "o" which actually does the double duty of natural and artificial harmonics uses the natural harmonics 1 p.t, you need to use that in the EM even though the VSL isn't supplying one in the first place . Of course a new playing technique could be created to match the EM but this seems the more complicated of the options and Andi's plan should certainly put this one to bed.

David

the harmonics don't work as they have been incorrectly mapped. The "o"for harmonics requires an entry "natural harmonic 1" but in the supplied Expression Map they are set to "artificial harmonics". These lines must be edited to match the Dorico assigned articulation. I've explained in a little more detail on the Dorico forum.

Originally Posted by: andi

Hello!

Please log in to your computer with your user account. Then run the VSL-for-Dorico installer. There's no need to run it as an administrator. After that the Playback Templates and Expression Maps for the SYNCHRON-ized Special Editions should be available for you in Dorico.

Best regards,
Andi

I agree entirely -- there is no prompt or need to run as Admin. it must be something system-specific with the user.

These days I'm mostly a user of the Synchron-ized libraries (apart from anything else, they're easier to programme in Dorico, I think) so haven't purchased anything as yet but I know that many still swear by the VI versions and it's obvious this is a labour of love.

I've spent some time looking at this today and it's obvious a lot of work has gone into it. I urge Dorico VIPro users to investigate as the alternatives are not that numerous to the best of my knowledge.

portamento in general works perfectly OK with Dorico. I find the best way seems to be to create a new custom playing technique called "portamento" (which makes it easier to distinguish from those built in to the software) and add it to the Expression Map.  You then also put a port slide in the score but you must disable the playback, otherwise it will override the VSL switch. In the score then hide one or the other as preferred.

It may be that John's suggestion also works but one other often critical step is to assign a "playback start offset" in the order of -10 to the note in question. This ensures that the port starts on the correct note. Several people on the Dorico forum have confirmed my suggestion works when they had otherwise had some problems.

A final point is that if you use the VSL SE template, you not only can but probably should be editing it to match your own musical preferences Simply adding a line assigning a keyswitch to portamento won't break anything -- if you make a mistake, just modify or even delete the line in question and nothing will get broken. Of course it's always best to export the original EM as a back-up just to be sure.

David

While trying to decide whether to switch to Dorico, one consideration was whether VSL would support VI and Synchon-ized libraries with Expression Maps and templates. I began to realise that it's much easier to do your own in Dorico than in Sibelius as well as being in many ways more powerful feature-wise since v3.5. That doesn't mean it's not appreciated what the VSL team are doing in bringing out their first Dorico maps and many will certainly find it a very useful starting point. Ultimately, though, individuals should take responsibility for their own programming to suit their own needs and nature of music being composed. I did use the Cubase maps initially for VI and the basics are in place but need some modifying, especially with the new features in recent months in Dorico.

I'm not sure what criteria will be used to judge the reception of the S-ized SE playback config. Every competent expression map for this library has value and a newcomer would be well advised to study several if available to see what most meets his/her way of using the library. Obviously  something from VSL will have special authority but that doesn't have to mean it's the right approach for everyone.

On the "politics" of VI v Synchron, I will stay clear!

Originally Posted by: andi

Hello Gyprock!

Trills are included in the Special Edition PLUS expression maps for strings and wind instruments. They are working fine here. It's true that if you have other commands earlier in the score, they may not work together and it may be necessary to add an "ord." command before the new command.

Best regards,
Andi

perhaps just to clarify that vol5 Dimension Strings don't include trills, (though I've borrowed them from elsewhere in my own setup). However the trills seem to work otherwise fine for me

Originally Posted by: andi

We thought about using Vienna Ensemble or VE Pro too in the playback templates. This would have the drawback that some instruments would be loaded even though they are not included in the score. Furthermore not all users have Vienna Ensemble installed. So these users would get an error message about the missing plugin. That's why we have decided to go with Synchron Player without Vienna Ensemble (Pro). If you want to, you can make your own playback templates with Vienna Ensemble (Pro) and our expression maps.

Best regards,
Andi

thanks for this clarification, Andi. I find it annoying to use single instrument instances as it's harder to edit or get an overview but on the other hand, uisng VE not only are instruments loaded which are not necessarily in the score, I frequently seem to get extra instances added by Dorico and other odd behaviour (such as refusal to save endpoints) so your choice is understandable even without the consideration that some users may not be using VE (Pro)