Yeah, I agree Bruce Dickey is amazing...and I would love cornetto and serpent samples, too! Abominable blaring all the way!!

Thanks Nick, I see what you're saying...I agree it could be a problem if it's overused...(like, for example...that I'm gonna run out of money :lol No seriously I agree with you on that, but I think it's just a bit of a fad now...I think it's gonna reduce itself to a more "reasonable" level in the near future.
And of course I'm not trying to get you in trouble...btw I'm convinced Doug is counting on a lot of people upgrading when the "pro" version of gold becomes available, hence the timing of his group buy...we'll see if it pays off.
Thanks again, it all makes sense to me now...

matto

Hey Nick, I really don't understand this...

1- When I need to buy a product to help me do a project (or land a project...), I buy it. If it later goes on sale I won't be too pleased, but I live with it since the product probably already paid for itself and likely made me some money I might not have made otherwise.
On the other hand, if a product is on sale at a very attractive price, I might buy it even if I don't have an immediate need for it.

2-I remember a lot of First and Pro Edition users complained when Opus 1 first came out, since it was now possible to buy performance legato samples for a lot less than they paid...and I don't think it would have been possible to sell Opus 1 at its price point without the success of the First Edition in particular. In other words it became possible to sell an entire orchestra of VSL quality for 1000 bucks because most of the work had already been done. That's really the same reason Doug and Nick are able to sell Gold for $400 bucks now, but not initially.

3-All a a group buy is is a sale, with some provisions that make it a bit less risky for the vendor. Like any other sale it's a time-limited marketing device designed to turn new customers onto a company's product or product line. If these sales have such a devastating effect on business, why do almost all businesses or outlets that have a product to sell do them?

4-I respect VSL's decision not to do any group buys. They know their market and their customers, and they know what's best for their company.
By the same token, isn't it a bit presumptuous to say that Doug (Rogers) is engaging in business practices that are "devastating to everyone"? I mean the guy has been running East West successfully for many years, so I'm inclined to believe he knows a thing or two about what he's doing...

5-There will always be people who can't tell the difference between a $ 300 library, a $ 1000 library, and a $ 3000 library. The reason for that is, most likely, that in their hands all of them sound like

My 2 cents...

matto

I too love medieval to baroque instruments, and would love to see samples, particularly of those hard to find instruments (along with ethnic instruments sampled to VSL standards)...of course now the Krummhorn society will probably come after me for trying to put its members out of business []

Btw William, could you enlighten me as to what the Clarinetto looks and sounds like? So far I've only heard of the Clarino (a term for the valveless baroque trumpet and it's high register) and the Cornetto (a weird instrument that uses a brass-like mouthpiece with a woodwind-like body, which sounds like a cross between a baroque trumpet and baroque oboe and was often use in an ensemble with trombones).
Got any links or pictures?
Thanks.

matto

Thanks for the respone, Martin.
Never hurts to ask.

matto

Fair enough. Not trying to get you in trouble there .

You're right, but I think you know what I'm trying to say. Maybe I should have said "the real instrument always has so much more expressive potential than even the best samples".
And I still believe that on certain instruments, such as the recorder, pennywhistle or (if you're a keyboard player) accordion, that potential is relatively easily exploited, leading to more life-like recordings.
But...maybe praising the expressive qualities of real acoustic instruments is out of line on a forum dedicated to discussing high-quality sample libraries... []

Yeah I agree...for practical purposes, they really have a 2 octave range. Just wanted to be accurate and not make sweeping statements such as "all recorders have a 2 octave range"... [[]] [[]]

Thumb Hole Half Covered
Finger Holes 1, 3, 4, 6 Covered (2 and 5 are open)
Depending on the recorder fingerhole 7 is half covered (i.e. 1 of the 2 halfstep holes covered) or entirely covered.



Whoa, calm down, Nick [[]] [[]] , I meant no offense ops: . I agree that to be a virtuoso recorder player you have to practice just as much as you would on any other instrument...I'm far from a virtuoso, but I find it easy to play and record parts (on a $30 plastic yamaha) that sound way better than the best samples I've used (the same goes for the pennywhistle, by the way). Sure, I have to do some comping, maybe even autotune a note or two, but the result is so much more "alive" than when you use samples.
Not to mention how you can creatively "abuse" recorders and make them sound like a variety of ethnic flutes...try that with samples.
I've found that even my non-musical clients can often tell if I'm using all samples, but if I put even just 2-3 real instruments in my tracks, it makes the whole thing sound real to them.
So I'd rather spend 2 hours practicing the recorder or pennywhistle or accordion part I've written than spend them tweaking my sampled recorder etc. part in an ultimately futile attempt to make it sound 100% real.
Just my personal preference.

matto

Common ranges of all recorders I'm aware of are:

Contrabass: C2-D4
Bass: F2-G4
Tenor: C3-D5
Alto: F3-G5
Soprano: C4-D6
Sopranino: F4-G6

I would point out that the recorder is such an easy instrument to learn and so inexpensive these days, and the real instrument is always so much more expressive than even the best samples, that...you might be better off just buying one and learning how to play it [] [] ...just a thought of course.

matto

Hmm, since you're not a private person on this forum, how about an official, really nice (but not devilishly sarcastic [] ) comment on the topic?
I guess most of us are just curious if a group buy is something VSL would ever consider, or if not, what your reasons might be.

I don't think people will start expecting to get 60% off. This is a time limited deal very obviously designed to attract more people to a company's product line. The thinking is that once you've got a taste of that product line, you'll want to upgrade (within that product line) as your needs grow. I have a feeling this will pay off for EWQL. And my feeling is, it would pay off even more for VSL, as they have a wider range of products.

Excellent point. I didn't realize VSL was widely available at retail. I thought it was just a few distributors (such as ILIO here in the US). This could indeed be a major stumbling block.

Oh, I do too. But so far, developers who have participated in the various group buys seem to be rather pleased with the results.

I'm voting for opus 1... I think they could sell a boatload of these; EWQL Gold is already well past the 80 copy mark in about 5 days, and now that it has hit the magic number they will undoubtedly sell plenty more.
I've been looking into buying either opus 1 or gold...was heavily leaning towards opus even though it was $ 100 more...but now that it is $ 700 more [] , I'm afraid I think I'm gonna have to go with gold. But...dear VSL folks, there's still about 20 days left to change my mind [[]] [[]] , and I'm sure there are plenty more people still sitting on the fence.

matto