First: this is not your forum--it is our forum. That is, it's all of ours. It's a community. We should not have to be exposed to your hostile language. It is uncomfortable and unnecessary. 

Second: you don't have to be a computer geek to get it, but if you're working in this world––esp, but hardly exclusively with VSL––you better know at least a thing or two. If you don't, be humble enough to learn. Unfortunately, you can't wake up one morning and have the chops if you don't have experience. This isn't entry-level software, but it isn't rocket science either. It takes some effort and investment. It's not the job of professionals making professional gear to also make it immediately accessible to all users regardless of experience. It's their job to make it as accessible as possible relative to what it is. I hardly think VSL has failed on this point, and they are hardly haughty. They help anyone and everyone regardless of the problem and experience, given that they are cooperative. Even then they help.  Anyhow, this is not really the issue in this case. The matter is not one of great complexity. Just a little learning and patience. 

Third: Yes, setting up a basic multi-output instrument ought to be managable from the first. This doesn't mean that you are above reading the manual. Getting "buried" in p49? Go to the contents, look up Logic setup, go to that page, read the sentence, or look at the picture that tells/shows you to click on the "+", and you're all set. In other words, sorry if all of this can't be gift wrapped to you. You might have to do what all of us have done at one point or another, and continue to do--learn.  Try learning an Eventide.  Your head might explode. 

Fourth:VSL tech support is among the best I've encountered, and I've been around the block a few times. A simple click on the support link, if you are not inclined to read the page in the manual, would do wonders. Most likely, the response would resemble the manual, insofar that this isn't a problem per se, but an end-user knowledge issue, which the manual makes fairly clear. A less hostile attitude, and I'm sure many forum members would have gladly helped. I know they have with me, esp when I was new and had little idea about what I was doing. And when the owner asks you to refrain from the use of hostile language, it's probably a good idea to oblige, or at least to be a bit more cordial.

Finally: In answer to your question, "who...wants to get buried in page...49 of a pdf?" well, I do, if it will help. I mean, it's a page. And a PDF. It's not The Phenomenology of Spirit after all (I'd avoid that one, btw.)  

When I was a tech at some major recording studios, I would frequently receive frantic calls from assistant engineers concerning "blown" gear: dead power supply, fried components, "now the session is screwed because everything will sound different; the engineer is going to flip out!"

After playing along a few times, I learned one simple but essential troubleshooting lesson: go to the back of the gear and make sure the power cable is fully seated. 90% of the time this was the problem. I came to enjoy calmly walking into a session, going to the back of the rack, reseating the power cable, and walking out with a smug smile

Start with the basics. If channels are swapped and you recently messed with the wiring, it's probably as simple as the connections and not a ghost in the machine. (Having said that, I was once very confused with channel-swapping and MIR Pro. Realized that with certain mic polarities, instruments placed behind will be inverted. I believe this is in the manual.)

However, if you do find that there is a ghost in the machine, when applicable, you can try using what we called "Fonzie skills." Bang on the gear with cool confidence and moderate force. If you have good studio karma, it will work. Warning: I've seen many good men and women, (and gear,) die due to a lack of good studio karma, so make sure you establish a positive and respectful relationship with your gear. Don't be quick to blame it and forgive it when it fails.

For what it's worth, doing all of this in a less-than-sober state is standard operating procedure in most studio environments...at least the ones I've been in

Mike

As I stated in another post: The instrument profiles for Dimension Brass are in the MIR Pro Dimension Instruments folder and not the Brass folder

Also, make sure that you have the most recent version of Vienna Instruments before you try the library update. Go here: http://www.vsl.co.at/en/68/428/514/210.htm

The update isn't to fix anything--it's to provide matrices and presets that take advantage of the new technology. In other words, if you don't have this technology, and don't want it, then the library presets and matrices you already have should "work" perfectly.

I don't know if your library is updating or not. Hard to tell being that I don't think you would see those presets and/or matrices within the regular Vienna Instruments. Having said that, contacting VSL support is always a good idea. They certainly know much much more than me. I personally have never  used the standard Vienna Instruments.

I wouldn't say that they are encouraging you to buy more and more, unless you are encouraged by the quality. VIP 2 is easily the best sample host out there. It allows you to work with your VSL libraries on a whole other level. It doesn't make sense for a product of its quality to be free--and it doesn't make sense to invest a lot of money in VSL libraries and not invest in the software. That's not to say that you need MIR Pro, Vienna Suite, etc. but VIP 2 is pretty rudimentary.  Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Mike

It is a little difficult to figure out, but if you look you will see update manuals for Vienna Instruments Pro 2 along with the library updates. The updates include presets and matrices that take advantage of VIP 2 capabilities, such as the APP sequencer, time stretching, auto humanize, etc. They include chord matrices, sequenced runs, arps, to name a few. Since I own Appassionnata 1 and 2 full versions and VIP 2, I'm not sure what, if anything, would be new to someone in your situation (no extended library; no VIP 2.)

My experience with installing the library updates is simply dragging the file into directory manager, it begins to process (says something like "updating library"), and then it completes.With the most recent updates, they appear as VIP 2 presets alongside the older ones, and new matrices such as the chord matrices.

I meant if you are using the regular Vienna Instruments, I highly recommend purchasing Vienna Instruments Pro 2. Try running the demo. Auto humanize alone makes it worth it--and there is way way more.

Mike

These updates are meant to take advantage of VIP 2. Unless you are a VIP 2 user, I don't think there is a difference, esp if you are only using the standard library.

If you are not using VIP 2, I highly recommend it.

HTH

Mike

I find it interesting that the Dimension Brass profiles are in the Dimension Instruments folder

By instrument, I think you are referring to the files and not the Vienna Instruments host. If you are able to instantiate the Vienna Instruments host, and access the percussion patches, matrices, and presets, but not the Konzerthaus, then make sure of two things:

1) that your DVD is registered with VSL and that you have activated your license through eLicenser. Make sure you have the latest version of elcc, downloaded from the eLicenser site. You can check to see if the Konzerthuas library is authorized by launching the elcc software and viewing the valid licenses on your Vienna Key/dongle.

2) Launch directory manager app. and make sure all of your containing folders are selected, i.e., that the path to your Konzerthaus files is correctly set in directory manager.

HTH

Mike

+1

I typically run it in parallel, like you would with a compressor. The wet/dry mix allows you to do this as an insert, or you can dedicate a bus to it depending on your needs. I like to place it before effects on its own bus, but it can be used anyway you see fit. I've had good results using it after effects and even at the mastering or mix bus level. I personally like the T setting for strings, emulating the respective "saturation/warmth" setting on the Culture Vulture. Saving my pennies to get the real thing. The P setting is more for distortion and less for saturation, but has its own merits. Ever hear a rock bass through one (the real one)? Pretty sure Radiohead uses it on the bass on "Bodysnatchers."

Mike

I tend to use it in parallel, with the mix at about 50% and slight drive. I use it mainly to add some darkness and mix it accordingly. Sometimes you lose depth of field and have to roll it back.  I usually prefer the Vulture Culture settings.

Mike

An instrument profile is sort of like an uber-preset that refers to a specific VSL instrument within MIR. They are located at the top right of your MIR Pro/VEP5 GUI, in the instrument section. Once you load an instrument (say, OR Violins) select the appropriate profile from the pull down list or right click the icon on the MIR stage and select from the context menu. . They do a lot of the work for you, making mixing much easier. Here's a detailed explanation from the manual (preliminary manual pp22-23).

Understanding the concept behind MIR's unique Instrument Profiles is almost as IMPORTANT as having some insight into the variable Output Formats described
above, if you want to make use of MIR Pro's features to their full extent.

As you may remember, MIR's impulse responses are not only taken from a multitude of sources and main microphone positions. MIR Pro handles directionality
(i.e., “room”) both from the listener's perspective (the microphone) as well as from the signal source's perspective (the instrument).

This is why we implemented detailed, individual Instrument Directivity Profiles for almost every Vienna Instrument. The underlying data were gathered over
(literally) years of extensive research and development, and are now saved within so-called Profiles. Measured with the aid of our newly developed method (based
on sectorized microphone swarms), we gathered an enormous database of spatial frequency profiles for all kinds of instruments and other sources. Taking into
account these directivity-dependent changes in sound, we can now supply MIR Pro with a direction-dependent acoustic fingerprint. This is made possible by the
way we recorded the multi impulse sets of each room: The impulses were sent into the room in the same sectorized way we used for measuring the instruments –
in 60° steps, plus the room’s ceiling and floor.

Instrument Directivity Profiles are not directly visible to the user, but selected from a list in accordance with the required Vienna Instrument's samples.
Apart from directivity information, Instrument Profiles contain data about other aspects, too:

Natural Volume

The Stereo Width inherent in the original recording Instrument and / or ensemble size
Natural timbres and possible changes to them

Typical playing techniques and ways of sound production

In combination with all these aspects saved in an Instrument Profile, the directivity patterns greatly enhance the possibilities of MIR, and thus the achievable
realism of a virtual orchestral performance.

Please select the appropriate Profile from the pull-down menu below the Instrument Display in the Instrument Channel. Virtually every Vienna Instruments is listed here. (IMPORTANT: This is NOT a list of the valid Vienna Instruments licenses on your computer!) In addition we supply “General Purpose” Profiles for use with any source MIR Pro is able to process. 

Arbee,

No experience with Spitfire. I just started tinkering with VSL Percussion within MIR Pro. So far, really good results. However, I tend to do a lot of modern production and sound design, so I often compress the crap out of percussion to make it pump. I've gotten interesting results putting compresion on a sub post-MIR, parallel compresion, etc.--but this is all "modern" oriented. The good thing about VSL, esp now with MIR Pro, is the felxibility it gives you with the dry samples. Very forward looking. 

It is a good idea to stick with one platform to an extent. I  look at it as my go-to platform, doing the heavy lifting. As always, mixing librries, layering, even adding synth pads (and sordinos!) low in the mix helps you get that harmonic distortion and lushness dificult to attain with samples. Having a couple of libraries is a good idea, but the diversity you are contemplating with VSL can prob do that. Adding a solo string to an ensemble really does wonders. I've even pitched them (solo strings) up a few cents and have gotten nice results. To me Chamber Sordinos is incredible. Listen to the demos. I use them more than the Chambers themselves, but again, layering sordinos is fantastic. The good thing with Orchestral is that you get the sordinos. Nevertheles, you will eventually wnant at least two libraries. With the holiday offer, and the superior quality and felxibility of VSL, it seems like a no-brainer to go with VSL now.

finally, get good at VIP 2! The possibiliies are vast. Other libraries promote things like pronounced legatos ("Hollywood" style) etc., but you can get almost anything you want once you avail yourself of the vast editing features of VIP. The ability to customize matrices, the number of switching modes (try velocity switching horns with horns blare or slot x-fading them for ex), stretching, the APP sequencer etc. humanize, filtering, etc goes WAY further than other hosts.

You are making a considerable purchase. I've been there. Considering it carefully is a must. All I can say is that you can't go wrong wtih VSL, esp with MIR PRo and VIP 2, as long as you are willing to put the time into developing your programming chops. The curve is steep but rewarding. Also make sure that you have a system that can handle it all, though VSL is comparatively lighter than other libraries. To reiterate, with the holiday offer, it seems like a no-brainer given you have the money to invest and the willingness to get good at working with a non- out-of-the-box library (not to say you can't jump in right away and do some great work, but you can go much further. The depth is personally a selling point for me whereas for others, not so much.)

On a side note, I've found the plug Decapitator by Soundtoys to be very helpful in creating harmonic distortion, taking the edge off, coloring (esp when used in parallel). If I could afford a Culture Vulture or a Fatso I would get them but the plug is quite good at emulating. This is just my own personal taste, but the demo is worth trying.

HTH

Mike

Yes, you will get phasing this way. I only meant that the SE chamber samples are the same as the DVD (with fewer articulations), so it is redundant to use both. Rather, my suggestion was to perhaps get orchestral strings and use them in conjunction with chamber strings; that is, you might be better served buying the orchestral DVD collection and use the SE chamber strings. Nevertheless, the transposition trick sounds interesting. Haven't tried that. Think I'll give it a go.

I have LASS. They are good but a bit anemic for my taste. They do supplement VSL nicely if you put them low in the mix. The divisi is the main selling point IMO, but I would opt for quality over divisi if it is a matter of one or the other (read, maybe wait for VSL divisi :)) To my ears VSL sounds far better and is MUCH more flexible. LASS is quite limted with re to articulations. If you're getting MIR, VSL is definitely best. The instrument profiles make life much easier, and MIR really is the realization of the VSL "dry" sample technique come to life. Finally, VIP 2 is hands down the best sample host available.  Good luck with your purchases!

Mike

Dimension Brass can be used as perfectly with the smaller ensembles you are talking about. There are presets that let you run through different ensemble size matrices, you can design your own matrix, or even better, assign each solo instrument to discrete tracks in VEP for more control over divisi and ensemble arrangements. The library is meant to be used with all different configurations.

Not sure how the crescendos will sound without the actual performance articulations. I believe you can sort of do what you want  with the APP sequencer in VIP 2, though again, not sure how this will sound. (I believe the APP presets assume you have the articualtions, so you would have to program your own.) Someone else with more experience re crescendo/diminuendo techniques may want to jump in here.

The chamber strings in SE and the DVD collection are the same (short of the full complement of articulations), no? Divisi of course would require having different size ensembles taking different parts instead of repeating the same full ensemble per note as you would get even with emulating 1st and 2nd violins,etc.; this is esp noticable in polyphonic passages. What you can get is the appearance of Violins 1 and 2 etc. by way of eq, filtering, and other means. There is also a way of doing it with impulses. But phasing would occur if there is an offset; here you would just have redundancy of libraries (so whay not just use your DVD collection if that's what you intend to buy) and emulate a 1st and 2nd VN arrangement?

Not sure what your needs are, but you may want to consider getting orchestral strings and/or appassionata and perhaps use the chambers that come with SE/Plus standard and extended, if that helps with your decision re Woodwinds 1 vs. SE/Plus (you get a lot of woodwinds with the SE bundle.) RE the latter, definitely get the extended libraries for both SE and Plus so you cover many articulations of solo and chamber strings (in other words, get the bundle). I have all the strings and I can tell you that the chambers sound great. I esp like the con sordinos (in which case, you would need chamber strings 2 dvd), but orchestral would seem (to me) to be the most useful across the board. Again, I don't know what your needs are. Appassionata are fantastic, though lack some important articulations. I've found that all VSL strings work well in non-orchestral genres.

Finally, I'm not sure if this works well, but a 1st and 2nd violins arrangment might be attainable using orchestral and chamber strings respectively (also layering with solo strings works nicely to get a more authentic, less anemic feel). Others might want to jump in with their own suggestions as they may be more experienced with arrangement techniques.

As always, you might want to contact VSL directly with some of these questions. They obviously know more than I do and will help you with the best purchase decision. Others on the forum should help as well. A plurality of opinions is always best. There are a few things I may be wrong about here :)

HTH

Mike

Same problem here with VEP 5. Cubase 6, Mac Pro OS X Lion, more than 2 audio inputs = silence. I have to add instances of VEP 5 if I want more than 2 audio inputs––so it seems that it is happening per instance.

Mike 

I don't know Windows, but for Mac it's activity monitor. That will tell you how much free RAM you have etc. It seems that Task Manager is the Windows equivalent, but how to find and navigate it, I can't tell you. As for RAM, I personally have 32gb in both my master and slave Mac Pros. That's a lot relatively speaking. I'd shoot for at least 16gb. Also, I've had problems with mismatched RAM, so I'd try to use the same make and size sticks. VSL support is good at recommending system specs, esp with re to your specific needs. I recommend contacting them. Paul or someone else should get you sorted out. HTH

Mike

8 cores on your PC ought to be sufficient to run 6 or 7 instances of VI. 4gb RAM is low, so an upgrade there would be beneficial overall.You should def check if your RAM is maxing out. Additionally, I know that sometimes low drive speed can cause clicks, though it is less common than cpu problems. What drive speed are you using? you should use at least a 7200 rpm dedicated drive. Also, make sure your thread count is taking full advantage of your cores (set under VEP preferences.) To troubleshoot, other than monitoring CPU, RAM, and disk usage (I'm a Mac guy as well, so I don't know how to direct you there) I would add tracks one by one until you start getting clicks and pops. Finally, make sure your latency and buffer settings are optimal. I would start out with a latency of either 256 or 512 and set VEP to 2 buffers. Also keep your sample rate to 44.1or 48khz (and not 96khz +). As far as interaction with PT 9, I'm in the dark. I'm a Cubase user, so perhaps someone can jump in here with PT suggestions. You can also try reducing release samples if you're using instruments with a lot of release samples and composing parts with a lot of polyphony. As always, you should contact VSL support with system specs, an analytical description of behavior, whatever steps you've taken to troubleshoot the problem, and a screenshot of all relevant settings.

-M

+1

I've personally looked for it in the context menu, so that would be my preference, for what it's worth.

-M

If you look at the manual, it shows you that the first instrument track in Logic is automatically assigned to outputs 1/2. Quoting the manual "you can add more stereo channels in ascending order comfortably by simply clicking the “+” Button underneath the SOLO button in the Instrument channel." If you're using VEP 5 it's on pp 47-50 of the manual. If VEP 4 it's pp29-32.

So, I guess the question is, did you assign your first logic instrument channel yet? If so, are you receiving VEP outs 1/2? If so, then if you add the new instrument channels you can assign the outputs in ascending order, or perhaps they will automatically be assigned in ascending order. So make sure that you are creating the proper instrument channels on the logic side. Follow the manual step by step. The first thing you have to do is assign a VEP multi-output AU instrument, which will be assigned to outs 1/2.

Again, I'm a Cubase user, and so it is done differently, but it seems like once you click the + button at the bottom of your first logic VEP multi out instrument channel, you will have a new stereo instrument channel with VEP outputs 3/4 etc. If this is not working, you should contact VSL support, describe your situation and provide a screenshot. They'll get you going right away. Because I don't have Logic and I can't see your Logic mixer, I don't know how I can help further. I'm only interpreting the manual, but am otherwise flying blind, i.e., I may not be understanding Logic correctly and confusing the issue even more.
-M

'

Why don't you provide us with your system specs, the problem(s) you are experiencing, what you're trying to do, how you are trying to do it, and perhaps someone here can help you. There are many knowledgeable, experienced, and helpful users here. VSL has an outstanding and sympathetic support team as well. You should contact them and I'm sure they will be of great assistance. If you are asking for a refund, contact VSL sales and spare the forum of your threats; you won't get anywhere the way you are going. VEP 5 works perfectly well but for a few bugs, which they are presently fixing. As always, they will provide an update in a timely fashion.

Are you routing your tracks to separate outputs in VEP? For example violins to output 1/2, violas to 3/4, cellos to 5/6 etc? Once you do that, you need to setup Logic instrument tracks per VEP output assignment, as stated in the manual. Apply separate effects to the Logic tracks as you see fit. Other than that, I don't know what you're doing wrong. I would contact support and provide them with a screenshot. Sorry I couldn't be of further help.

-M

If you're getting audio return from VEP to your Logic audio instrument channel(s), then you should be able to insert effects, or setup effects sends etc. It's an audio channel at that point with VEP as the input, and output should be assigned to your main outs. If you are getting audio return and signal drops once you insert an effect, then there might be a bug. I know logic users are having some problems with VEP 5, though I haven't heard of this one. If you keep having trouble, email tech support. Just make sure all of your routing is correct, test without effects first, check if you are getting signal to an inserted effect (for example, insert a reverb and see if there is input into the reverb), make sure your output bussing is correct etc. Sorry I couldn't be of further help. If you were using Cubase, I could help more.

-M