Errikos, that's one hell of a good post.

Originally Posted by: William

.................................The reason may be revealed in the sinister significance of the VSL logo - just why is this company they releasing one thing after another with stars, galaxies, nebulae in the advertising - all extraterrestrial references?  The all-too-real reason may truly be - 

THEY HAVE BEEN INFILTRATED. 

...and here's the proof....

air force pilots see cube shaped ufo

Some interesting points of view here. I haven't read anyone talking about how theory, or perhaps the lesser loaded expression, study, has another extremely important benefit for a budding composer. Whilst studying and more importantly, practising techniques (just reading about technique is never enough), the young composer with the wits to do so, will also be discovering much about their own aesthetic proclivities, especially as they eventually assimilate and then apply or reject any new methodologies according to their own musical instincts.

The adaptation and transformation of technique into the role of support and guidance is a crucial step to becoming able to freely, confidently and perhaps even uniquely, express oneself in music imo.

This is very well done imv. My only criticism is that it is very derivative and in places sounds almost too much like some classic pieces, especially some of the harmonic progressions.

Your scoring is nice and delicate for the solo and works beautifully as the cello needs acoustic space. In that regard, it is impressive given that you don't have much experience with full ochestras.  I should imagine it would work excellently if ever done live. The work develops nicely and your harmony and counterpoint are solid. The timings and linear feel of each section also feels right in that everything sounded logical and even inevitable - that isn't easy to do. I just wasn't sure about the final 2 mins or so which seemed to jar a little, but that's just me, others may well love it.

The piece is very memorable too with instant likeability and I was glad to have spent 15 mins listening to it.  My initial criticism (or perhaps opinion is a better term), still stands as I believe talent should find its own ways.  So I hope you will branch out and try to find a more individual voice if you haven't already,  because you may well have something to say that is uniquely yourself....you never know until you look, right?....

Regardless, well done, it is a very nice and extremely competent piece imv.

Originally Posted by: agitato

I am very poor with astronomical names.

But they already released some images of JW and it looks amazing....galaxies splintered all over. 

I wonder if Holst' would write for galaxies if he saw these? His 'Planets' are already so apt for these gigantic views of the Universe in any case.

Continuing our Mike Hewer gossip, I started listening to his Symphony no. 2. What a truly remarkable piece of work! reminds me a little of Rodney Bax, Samuel Barber and the early 20th century romantics. (I hope I am not revealing my ignorance in these comparisons) . This recording is not only remarkable for the how sophisticated the composition is ..but also for how well it is rendered. I must say I have never heard any rendering of a long form symphony by virtual orchestra with such amazing quality. 

Sorry for deviating topics Errikos, but you started it:) 

Anand

Hi Anand,

Well thank you to you too, I'm sure I don't merit these kind words but am sincerely flattered regardless.

Oh Boy the latest JWT photos are mind blowing. I can't wait to see what they might find when JWT turns its attention to exoplanet atmospheres. 

(Anand, I responded to your PM but couldn't see it in my outbox after I'd sent it - perhaps I clicked the 'cancel' button by mistake. Let me know if you got it -  thnx).

Originally Posted by: Errikos

mh-7635: Mike! Very long time, no see...

All is well enough as can be, thank you. How are you? One of the very top programmers of orchestral simulations I have ever heard here. Your Holmside, but the way, sounds like a veritable tour de force. I so enjoyed a few minutes of it, I am going to find time to listen to the whole, and I recommend it to everybody here so they can clear their H.Z.-besmeared palettes with some real music by an actual forum member.

As far as Bond songs go, there is hardly one I don't really like up to (and including) The Living Daylights. Not the A-ha song, of course, but Barry's last contribution to the franchise - If there was a man (see end credits).

Happy composing Mike!

You are too kind Errikos, thankyou.

I'm fine and still at it. I'm glad you are ok too and hope you are composing well. 

Bassey was so good and what a voice even now. Not a Bond song, but I always thought this rendition by her of 'Let's Fall in Love' was so well done and the arrangement is great...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-18TrAGf_-I

Re Bond songs, I have a soft spot for Loius and 'We Have All The Time in the World'. Such a beautiful song and sentiment. And, a great string riff of course...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMxRDTfzgpU

(Hi Errikos..hope all is well.)

The sites nice but it doesn't want to remember me as logged in. FYI, I'm using Chrome Version 91.0.4472.114 (Official Build) (x86_64)....annoying but not the end of the world..

I had to use Chrome as Safari v9.1.2 doesn't seem to work with the new look. I definitely prefer the dark look.

Hi Anand,

I hope you are fairing well...

I found this to be a very nice refined expression. The first part had a lovely sedate, dignified feel to it. I liked the second part too, quite fun and no doubt the "Fantasy" part of the piece. The recap of the initial mood works too however I think the whole piece could be longer. Each section could be more developed. The quicker solo section in particular could go on much more and exploit the virtuosity of the solo over even more adventurous harmonic change. The basic musical materials are there, they just need extending and developing imv.

Mike.

Jerry, you must've had some plan with that piece, it's bloody amazing, a terrific piece. Very Poulenc-ish in places and a curious smorgasbord of styles as you both start riffing off each other. Curiously, it sounds very European too in places.

Yes, I improvise. It's a necessary pre-composition starting point for me as much as it is a part of actual composition too. The way I see it is that improvising is working with raw materials and acting like a search tool, hunting out, and chasing down ideas, whilst actual composition is the imposition of order and will in an effort to refine and hone. Applying technique at the compositional stage for me, is all about teasing out any nascent material within an idea and a way of creating homogeneity in an extended piece.

Improvising can also take place mentally for me and stretches of musical phrase can be parsed in real time and as quickly discarded or improved upon. Improvising can also be done on the manuscript. I find it sometimes useful to work out long form in a graphic way on manuscript, plotting key moments and even rhythm, without the need for notes as such - a kind of route map. This is particularly useful when the sound-world of the piece has been worked out and has been mentally absorbed. One can quickly plot scenarios and gauge their efficacy in relation to the material and how one can proceed with it.

Finally, improvising with technique is essential to me too. A lot of people do not understand the connection between technique and the finished work. The underpinning provided and the creative challenge presented by self-imposed (self-designed) parameters, is what distinguishes a great piece from most imv. The limitations ironically freeing the creative spirit by challenging it to overcome are an essential driver and mechanism for writing music that is unified and inevitable in its expression. These limitations are of course continually re-assessed during progress and are flexible enough to be altered should an unexpected musical twist occur.

This all sounds very cold, but in reality it is not. One is ultimately always swayed by the pull of the music and that is the final arbiter.

Originally Posted by: agitato

That was well put Mike.

What a line up of composers there...Errikos, William and Mike Hewer...I love this forum where I can banter with serious composers and ask amateurish questions. like the one below:

I wonder what you think about John Williams' violin concerto, and where you would place it in the 20th century music literature: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi3ECEzyfAY

To my naive ears, this sounds atonal. I can barely make out a tonal center or melody....(even more remarkable given JW is one of the great melody makers of Hollywood.) But would you also consider this "atonal"? The Rozsa piece surely has a tonal center and quite a few beautiful melodies.

I find this piece to be an interesting contrast from Rozsa although I immensly enjoy both of the. Both were film composers but fully trained in the classical tradition. But why does William's music sound so different...is it just the few decades that separated them?  I didnt go to music school and am really curious what you think. It is also interesting to me that JW would not choose to write a more populist piece for his concert works. Its as if he didnt have to answer to anyone and was purely driven by his artistic vision.

(btw The one sure difference between the two is JW is alive, and I have "met" him....it was when he was leaving after a BSO concert. I was a few inches away but too embarassed to even get an autograph.)

Anand

hi Anand,

Errikos has answered your question I feel and I, like Errikos, also prefer the cello concerto, although the violin concerto is rather good too. The cello concerto is a lot sexier and sumptious in its harmony for me. This is the recording I have and it is beautiful....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7Ua6-ebLv0

You are right about his concert works being more shall we say complicated. He has more to say than a film cue and in the concert hall there are no restraints. His command of the long line is often in evidence and the rigour in his work ensures a liberated and yet controlled unity of expression - a quality in good music that is sometimes overlooked  by lesser composers of concert music imv.

BTW I nearly met him too (sort of). I was working at Abbey Rd Studios when he was there once. I waited in the bar for a few hours to see him, but he never came in. There are of course worse places to wait in.

I'm loving the Violin Concerto. The boy Rosza could compose and the boy Heifetz could play allright.

Great work Leslie.

The quartet sells VSL better than a lot of other demos I've heard, get on the payroll. The intimacy and sense of performance is excellent as is the music of course.

Hi Dave,

Nice and fun, but there is no Bach or Haydn in there, more Poulenc I'd say. Some nice scoring moments too and expressive programming. The counterpoint works very well and there is a programatic feel to it because of your musical thought process. The whole piece sounded idiomatic and It could be the last movement of a wind suite, so get on with it...:-)

Mike.

What is the matter with you.....Can't you read? I know about slurs used for phrasing and once more, just for you...I know about bowing. I am not saying anything at all derogatory about long phrase slurs nor am I saying that long slurs are indicitive of ignorance or bad practice.  Modern scoring practice and composing utilises more bowing effects than Beethoven's time and it is that resource that is a wonderful asset to have as a composer because only when you know about it, can you use it and exploit it for your own end....that kersten, is a fact. 

Get your head in it.....

Look Kersten, in the context of this discusssion, a slur over notes in string writing is more often than not indicitave of bow changes. Of course I know about longer phrase slurs and other uses, did you really have to clarify that for me, thinking I didn't know? But, given the discussion, my post above was chiming with your pov to a certain extent anyhow, suggesting you are right in some cases, not that you'd see that.  

Oh and by the way, it is always a matter of knowing how to write well for strings and that includes bowing technique if you want to write to a high standard. In all my pro sessions I have only ever had one discussion about alternative bows, so I do know something about it. 

How do you expect a composer to exploit in a creative, compositional emotional manner, bowing techniques that inform and enhance his/her work if they do not t know about them?...well?

Originally Posted by: javajam

Originally Posted by: William

That is absolutely FALSE.   Strings very commonly play slurred notes with different bow strokes. So a slur in notated music does NOT mean strictly "take it in one bow." 

Surprising explanation, William... A good composer or arranger knows about bowstrokes and wouldn't write something the players won't be able to play but this is another story.

A slur is a slur. 'Whenever a passage is slurred, all notes within that slur are performed on one bow, meaning that they all are played in one bow direction.' (Samuel Adler)

There's one case which is an exception: when a wide slur includes several bars i.e. It means the player should make as many notes as possible in one bow stroke and have soft bow changes.

 String players will probably change bowing in rehearsal if a better musical result is available and that change will be guided by the phrase and what the composer has already put in as bowing - but only on the assumption that the composer/arranger understands bowing. If they do not, then changes and solutions that may well use seperate bowing within a written slur are a possibility.

As a composer, when I slur notes for bowing, I'd expect them to be played in the one bow as would every other composer and arranger who understands this vital part of writing for strings. It is so essential to understand what the physics of bowing does to the musical effect, along with the musical effects that can only be exploited by the composer at the compositional stage if they are aware of them.

Macker,

Do you have perfect pitch?..just curious.

Piano sounds great, as is the playing. Nice one Guy.

Me and the wife where in Salzburg a few years ago for the National Day. It was lovely to see everyone dressed up and proud. Makes me wonder what we'd have in the UK for such a day, perhaps jeans, trainers and a beer stained tee-shirt....oh and a Daily Mirror hanging out of the back pocket!...just joking, have a good one.

Hi Dave,

There is some haunting  music in this along with high drama. I guess it's no surprise to you that the music does not sound dissonant to me. Your usual story-telling rhetoric is in fine evidence and takes the listener on an adventure that they can invent as much as you dictate.

I'm not a fan of the space you have put the piano in - it feels just slightly too far away for me, but that's just my taste, perhaps that was intentional! I like the insistent final chord at the end, which although a resolution, feels tense and works well.

Jerry,

Some very beautiful moments in this and some very moving progressions and lines. It sounded very good on my laptop too. I'll listen in the studio when I can because the music is worth it---as always.

Hi Dave,

I love the clarinet and piano works, so inventive and appealing. There is good music here and your exhaustive output is impressive. A fine collection.

I'm not Synchronised yet, but iPad control is so entrenched in my workflow that I wont even consider purchase until it is in place in one form or another so this is a +1 also.