[Note - I first posted this under General section. I may have posted in the wrong place, so I'm copying it here. Hope that's OK :)

I have the Synchronized version of Appasionata Strings. Because I sometimes do music on Linux, I mostly use the Vienna Instruments player, because the Synchron player sometimes crashes. That means that using App. Strings on Linux is problematic. however, if I had the original version, it would work fine.

So, is it possible to "retrograde" back from The Sync. version to the original?

Thanks,

michael

Oh thanks. Won't do me any good, however, since I already did the ilok conversion, and no longer have access to legacy-eLicenser software. No problem though, I'll either find a workaround, or do without.

I still use Windows 7, although I am considering upgrading to Windows 10. but I would stay with W7 if I could use a working version of NA. Contrary to popular belief, the latest version does work on Windows 7. (Also on Linux, but that's a different story). But I can't download the Synchron Player, it wants me to be on Windows 10.

I understand that Vienna Inst. does not officially support W7, or Linux, for that matter. I just do things differently. I don't expect special accommodation. Just asking if older versions of NA and Synchron are available. If so, I can make things work.

Thanks, michael

I have the Synchronized version of Appasionata Strings. Because I sometimes do music on Linux, I mostly use the Vienna Instruments player, because the Synchron player sometimes crashes. That means that using App. Strings on Linux is problematic. however, if I had the original version, it would work fine.

So, is it possible to "retrograde" back from The Sync. version to the original?

Thanks,

michael

Francesco, I have compared the two different ways of doing reverb discussed here, and it appears that just using one convolution reverb on a bus, and adjusting sends of instruments or groups/synths, does produce better sound. The alternative, using algo reverb and then also using sends to a reverb bus, seems to be more difficult to get good results with, as it involves more variables. So more can go wrong. Also, this approach may produce unwanted interference or muddiness. Not that one cannot get good results, it just seems harder, because it is more complicated. This was for a large orchestral score of mine, and it sounds much clearer doing it with just convo reverb. Thanks for the tip!

Originally Posted by: Francesco Pirrone

Originally Posted by: michael diemer

In the VI Player, the default is 30. that seems like a lot, especially if you are going to use a reverb bus to tie everything together at the end. So, what are you using? Half that much? Less? just a bit, like 7?

Thank you, md

Hi Michael,

I think I can answer this because VI accounts for 90% of my working templates, I don't use the VI algo reverb at all unless I am just loading VI as a standalone plug-in: not saying that it's bad or shouldn't be used but I have a much better time setting up the whole templates with bus groups for each section and then sending said groups to a main instance of the Vienna Suite convolution reverb.

I like this setup both for writing and for mixing.

As I refine my mix down the line I sometimes find myself adding a separate algo (such as PhoenixVerb, R2 or other stuff) which I use very sparingly on selected instruments in conjunction with the main converb.

Hope that helps!

Francesco

Thank you Francesco, that is certainly a valid way to do it. That's one of the weird things about this - there's usually several ways of doing something, all of which can produce good results.

I appreciate hearing about how others do it. And I may decide your way is better, who knows?

I think the algo reverb on VI is very good. Similarly, the algo on Garritan's Aria player is excellent (Ambience). I've even got it working on Linux, and set it up as a bus for my Dimension Pro instruments (that's a Cakewalk sampler/rompler, not sure which, but it has some useful sounds. but the reverb is terrible, so sending to Ambience gives me the same great reverb that is on the Aria player).

I guess I'll continue experimenting,and hopefully get to a satisfactory result at some point.

Thank you Beat. that's very helpful. I'll check out your videos (even if they are on You Tube - I hate being tracked! :).

 michael

I suppose it doesn't matter, the process is the same, whether you're using the VI player or Synchron. I have spent the past year transitioning to Linux, and just recently was able to make Vienna libraries work.  So i haven't been using them for awhile. In going back to them, I again had to confront the reverb issue, always a difficult one, for me at least.  I tried using the default setting of 30 on the VI player (not Synchron),  and, as in the past, found it is too much. I'm using 5 on the flutes, 7 on the clarinets, 10 on the Horns, 12 on the brass, 14 on the percussion. Then routing everything to my convo reverb, where I'm using the Bricasti impulses on the Cakewalk Perfect Space plugin, with send levels of about 32. Pretty much what I did on Windows, except I was using EW Spaces from my convo reverb.

It was a great joy to be able get Vienna sounds again in my music.  you have to jump through a lot of hoops to do so, and it's a very steep learning curve. but for me worth it. I gave up on Windows after Windows 7. At this point, I am using everything I did on windows, except for East West stuff. but with Vienna now working, I don't need it. I also have Cine Samples going, Garritan, plus some other odds and ends. I have completely transitioned over to Linux now.  It would be so much better if companies made their products work on Linux, and not just windows and Mac. but fortunately it is now possible for probably 90% of software.

Thanks, but another question: I am using the Special Edition on the original Vienna Inst.player, not Synchron. The reason is, I'm doing music now on Linux. While Synchron works on Linux, it throws errors now and then. The old VI player works perfectly, however.

So, I am asking about the slider on that player, where the default is 30. Is that 30 %? Or  were you talking about the Synchron player? I'm not sure that 30 on the VI player is the same as 30 on the Synchron player.

In the VI Player, the default is 30. that seems like a lot, especially if you are going to use a reverb bus to tie everything together at the end. So, what are you using? Half that much? Less? just a bit, like 7?

Thank you, md

Thank you Sir, I will try that.

Originally Posted by: Paul

Hi Michael, 

Yes, the Vienna Assistant is the key. If you moved your data, you should see the orange "REPAIR" wrench button in the upper right corner light up. You can repair/connect your data this way. 

Alternatively, you can use "Add existing library" from the main menu. 

Best, 
Paul

I just converted to ILOK, and tried to download my libraries to an NVMe drive. However, they ended up on my C drive instead. I want to load them from the NVMe, as it is faster. How do I do that? I copied them to the NVMe drive, but should I change the content location in my Vienna Assistant?

Thanks, md

Yes, I mean Synchronized (sorry that was unclear). I can understand how it would be difficult to migrate when you have everything set up for Vepro, Mir, etc. I did not do much in the way of customization with the ensemble player, and I never really got into Vepro. In fact, I went back to the Ensemble Player because for me it was easier. 

I find the Synchron player easier to deal with. but I too still will use the ensemble player at times, especially if I want to limit the number of instances. You can get a lot of Synchron players going if you're doing orchestral! fortunately, the Synchron player is not too power-hungry. I think it is a very well-designed piece of software.

Thanks for your considered and informative reply.

Now that we have had some time to compare, what do you think? Old vs. New?

Personally, I have Special Edition 1 on both the regular edition and the Synchron version. I have gravitated toward the Synchron. You can do more with the sounds. You can use the included impulses; or only the short/long convo  so you still get the Synchron panning; or choose the default settings, and do whatever you want with them in terms of reverb and panning.. I like having the Synchron pans available. I even use them for other libraries sometimes. I think it's a great tool. It also seems to load a little faster.

What do other folks think?

Thanks for that info Jason, good to know. So Cakewalk had it right all along. I figured since it disagreed with the majority of DAWS, it must be wrong. Just goes to show, no good jumping to conclusions!

I imagine it comes down to what you're used to, I learned the CC method, so keyswitching seemed a bit foreign to me. If I had learned keyswitching, and then tried the CC method, I probably would find that foreign. 

Another problem I had with keyswitching: in Cakewalk/Sonar, I have to transpose the keyswitches up an octave, because Cakewalk uses a slightly different scheme in numbering octaves., Their middle C is on the treble clef, leading users to believe that actually is middle C. Why they did this I'll never know.

Anyway, it all comes down to the CC method being better for me.

Thank you Ben. I did study the manual, but must have missed this. I'll give it a go!

Michael

Addendum: I did it! All in all, both the keyswitch method and CC method are rather cumbersome, but at least with CC events I don't have a bunch of extra tracks to put the keyswitches on. Now, it would really be nice if I could just say to my computer, "Switch to Legato, normal with strong vibrato." I guess that's a ways off yet...

I seem to recall seeing a post here on how to use CC events to change articulations. I hate key-switching. Is this in fact possible? Is anyone actually doing this?

Thank you Paul and David. sorry I got a bit touchy. I have had several threads where I get zero responses, this one just put me over the top. Chalk it up to the stress the whole world is under these days, I guess.

Okay, forget it. no one wants to answer my questions, fine. I'll go somewhere else.

I have Appasionata Strings, Epic Orchestra and Sp Ed1 in the Synchron versions. My DAW is Cakewalk by Bandlab (formerly Sonar). My usual way of dealing with volume was to use CC 7 and CC 11. I find that with the Sp Ed 1, I often need to increase the volume on the synth. So, I'm wondering if it makes sense to dispense with CC 7, and use the volume slider on the Synchron player. Also, should I disable the Cakewalk volume slider? Then use CC 11 for fine adjusting? does this make sense?

In other words, I would find the best setting for inital volume on the Synchron player for each inst., using that as my CC 7 so to speak. Disable the volume slider on Cakewalk (as well as the pan slider, so as not to alter the native panning of the Sp Ed 1 insts). Then use CC 11 the rest of the way. What have other folks found works best?

Thanks,

Michael

Does anyone ever use impulses other than the one that loads for a given instrument? I have been experimenting a bit. For example, I don't like the way the bassoon sounds in Sync version. I find it sounds better if I load the Oboe d'Amore impulse from Epic Orchestra. And the oboe sounds better with the EO Woodwinds impulse. Also, the bosendorfer will appear on the right side pan-wise if you load the EO Timpani impulse. I like the piano on the right side if I'm doing full orchestra. Of couerse, most of the impulses I've tried make the inst. sound worse, but I can usually find one that is an improvement. 

So you're saying that I can still have the pan, if I use the algo reverb? I'll have to test that out. By the way, that new piano is amazing, 10 X better than any other I have.

I just installed Synch. Sp Ed 1. It sounds like if you use the impulse responses (convo reverb), you get the instruments panned in their natural positions. However, if you turn that off, you lose the pan. Or are my ears deceiving me?

Thank you Paul, that's great news. I'll check it out.