Hi,

In most case of home studio, it's good enough to have 2 nearfield monitors in order to get a decent reference.
Most of us can't afford a well designed studio which doesn't have any acoustic issues.
Setting 5.1 surround system in a bad acoustic environment just mess up your mixing.
So it depends on your studio's condition, I'd say buying a pair of 7"(or larger) nearfield monitors with any great manufacturer will get the job done. 5" is also a solution if you have a tight budget.

Best,
moh

To all friends above,

Watch this test:

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/2019-mac-pro-daw-benchmark-test-results.88521/

It seems its performance is really impressing if you can afford the price ($8000+).

But I guess you can build a solid PC slave within $2000 and use VEP on it, getting an approximate or better performance, while you staying on your current Mac as a master machine and keep your workflow.

An i5 8th gen CPU can handle around 80 VIs quite well. If you'd like to have more plugins and effects, i7 9th gen or better should be considered. Single core performance is the most important factor for VIs, multi cores comes the second.

At least 64GB RAM if you have large template.

I don't worry about apple's SSD performance since any lastest 2019 mac comes with nvme PCIE3.0X4, which is really solid according to synchron player's scan. But make sure you get enough space for your sample library. If you stream from a SATA external SSD via USB3.0, you may come across drop out in large project.

iMac/iMac pro/Mac mini heats up easily if you throw crazy things (over 150 instruments and plugins) on it due to its all-in-one design.

Hi Dewitt!

I have a question, I'm afraid I don't get it.

Do you mean make change in Synchron Player, assign a programme change in the "articulation" slot?

I just can setup exp map with "note on" in logic, 'cause sychron player has two layers "articulation" and "type". I only manage to assign keyswitch for "short notes","long notes"etc.

Could you give out a detailed instruction?

A thousand thanks!

best,

moh

Hi,

Probably not.

RAM size determine your template size, more rams allow you to have more instruments loaded.

There is a huge difference between 8GB ram and 16GB which result in faster preload speed, but hardly between 48 and 96.

On the other hand, high single core clock speed CPU and high end Nvme SSD significantly improve streaming performance. 

Hi Martin,

Make sure your PC's motherboard support GG45 connector in order to use CAT7 cable, and also it comes with 10gbps ethernet card. You will not get full function of 10gb cable unless you have these compitable hardwares.

From my exp, streaming hardly benefits from using 10gbps cable.

A CAT6 with RJ45 will do the job, and it is compatible with all mainstream motherboards.

 

To avoid audio dropout, CPU clock rate, Memory RAM size, hard drive 4K random read speed are three primary factors shoud be considered.

In your case, 9900K and 8700K won't be a problem for streaming huge Kontakt or EW orchestral libraries. I suppose you had at least 64GB RAM on both machines. So the question remains is what kind of hard drive you will use ? A sata SSD or Nvme PCIe 3.0X4 SSD or traditional HHD? Nvme has fastest 4K random read speed and is ideal for VSL,EW or Kontakt libraries.

If these 3 factors have been taken care of, even a 1 gbps cable(CAT5) can transfer data smoothly. It can handle huge templates.  

Hi everyone!

I just add the Synchronized SE Vol 1 Plus to my VSL template. As a logic pro user, I'm trying to setup personal expression map for synchronized libraries in the latest LPX 10.4.7.

I've got problems in the setup since I managed to assign only one key to a single articulation, but in SY SE Vol 1 and Plus there are some articulations assigned through two keys on the keyboard.  (Short notes 'C1' then Staccato 'C2' for ex.) And my setup does't work.

How should I do to achieve this setup correctly? Any idea?

Thanks!

Best,

moh

Hello Dan!

The sever is ok except for his hard drive. This is a HDD which 4K random read speed is much lower than SSD. It becomes the bottleneck for streaming.

Raise your preload size in synchron player to the highest which will load more sample in the ram. Set your audio interface and DAW's buffer size to 256/512/1024 and try. If pops remains that you should forget the Dell R710 , return your projet in your PC and use VEP with them.

Or just upgrade the sever with a SSD nvme and put all VSL libraries in it.

VEP helps a lot for streaming but it can't raise the HDD 4k read speed. 

Best,

moh

Merci! Je parle français, ne vous inquiétez pas.
That's very helpful indeed.

Hello,

I was wondering if VSL has a synchron/synchronized Solo Violin. I have the SY SE Vol 1 which has solo vilon I and II, but I found there is no vibrato/non vibrato patch even checking in the Extened vol at VSL's site.

Will there be a projet for synchron/-ized solo strings with all articulations? 

Best,

moh

What a nice piece!

Could you share some small tips about how you combine Dimension strings and Appassionata string?

Did you merge them to achieve a big sound? Or you just simply use DS as divisi and AS as Orchestral String?

Thanks!! 

Hi Danicar!

Where do you put your VSL libraries? Are they on SSD or HDD? Which library you are using?

In fact, any Gigabit ethernet is fast enough for streaming.

The pops/clicks problem is simply that your R710 is too old. Its CPU power is equal to an i3 8100 (OK for medium template ) but most of its storage are HDDs which are too slow for large samples like the Synchron/Synchronized serie. While you have a huge template of orchestra, the 4K random read speed of HDD is too slow which causes dropouts/clicks.

You can run a quick test in synchron player to view your current hard drive speed.

Really strange. After uninstalled and reinstalled Synchron Piano Player, restart, D-274 Light finally loaded with success.

May be something wrong with my file path's name.

Hello Ben!

With this thread, I realize I have the similar problem that the steinway D-274 Light missing in Synchron SE Vol 1 library. In my case , the new Violin 2 and Cello 2 are shown up, but can't find D-274 patch though installing Synchron Piano Player.

Best,

Moh

Hmm....

Everything works fine in Synchron Player with me, I can reach every key just with the "octave" switch funtion.

With which OS you are working? Win or Mac? Have you installed a drive for your keyboard?

Some keyboards may need driver on both OS to make those buttons funtion correctly in DAWs. In Cubase and Reaper, you must enable your keyboard as input and allow it to take control in Preferences.

Hello Richard,

Try the "Octave +/-" button on your Nord 61 to switch a octave lower. It works with my Native Komplete S61 MK2 and Yamaha MOX6 and any other early 49/61 keys arranger pianos/master keyboards.

Best,

moh

Hi andi!

Thanks for the manual that helps a lots in setting up my template. I also bought the Synchronized SE Vol 1 for more detailed composing and I really enjoy it with the great sound. However I've tried a few days to resolve my first question about patches but still have some confusions.

I'm not native speaker , I try my best to make you understand.

For string section, the instruments "Violin 1", "Violin 2", "Viola "...etc in sibelius, they are automaticly asigned to playback with VE SY SE Vol 1, patches "1st Violin 14"etc . But for some reasons , I want to use the articulation "flautando" in Epic Och 2.0 synchron string 1light (all) for the same instrument. It seems to be asigned to "strings" or "strings reduciton" instrument in sibelius. So is there a way to switch midi channel or I have to add a "strings" section in my piece to play the articulation?

For Brass section, SE Vol 1 has both solo instrument and tutti instrument, but I can't find the proper instruments  like "Horns" in sibelius 8.5 which supposed to match with "Horns 4" patches in VSL. How could I achieve that tutti sound? Should I add 4 "French Horn" in the music sheet?

For percussions, VI SE Vol 1 has some intergrated patches like "Drum" to play "taiko","snare drum","bass drum"etc. Should I build seperate plugin channel for each instrument in VEP, or I can use one channel for all drums routing in sibelius?

Best,

Moh

Don't need to move your OS and DAW to external drive, the fusion drive can handle these software very well.

 

Besides, RAID is not safe for data storage, once one of the drives goes down, the whole system may crash and you will lose your data , so never put your OS/projet files/important personal data in RAID.

Check out the 4k iops read speed on testing software. That's the most important rating you should care about SSD for music production. RAID won't help improving this performance. Anyway, it's useful to have large SSD drives for all samples.

Hello andi,

Yes, I mean patches in Epic Orchestra 2. Thanks for your response, I'll have a look in that tutorial.

PS: The bonus Taiko of EP2 isn't shown up in Sibelius soundset, it seems not have its own ID.

Regards,

moh

Hi everyone,

I recently try to write a few pieces in Sibelius with VEP instead of playing and arranging them directly in Logic Pro. So I'm someone new with Sibelius soundset. I've consulted some of the videos and built a custom template for Sibelius Playback.

Here's my question:

I manage to add 16 patches with 16 chanels in VEP which includs Sychron String FX and Appassionata String. When I click playback, in Violins I can hear it is using the Appassionata patch. I can swith to Sychron String patch in the mix window. But how can I asign the patch I want to certain bars. For example, Violin 1 plays short notes with Appassionata patch in bar 1, then in bar 2 it starts to play a cluster. What should I do to achieve? Any suggestion? Much appreciated!

regards,

moh 

The CPU is a long story. Since the AMD has launched their new zen+ in late 2017 which forced Intel to renew their 7th gen to 8th gen in 2018 and try to take back some market share, there is huge improvement between 7th gen and 8th gen rather than 8th & 9th...That's corret, a i5 8th gen Intel is good enough for most of part.

The read speed of fusion drive has an illusion. It use his SSD part as cache to boost up read speed. It copies files in the SSD parts and read. Once it use up its SSD space, it will drop down as a normal slowy HDD. Imagine you that you fully fill your 1t drive with VSTs and VSL, then it definly begins to produce dropouts. The test shown to you is with a brandnew fusion drive but not a full filled musican's drive.

OK, that seems to be the last thing you need to know:)

Hardrive with OS can't be replaced. But you can store your samples on Nvme streaming from thunderbolt 3 to improve performance. So yes, it will help a lot.

9th gen only has 5%-9% better performance than 8th gen, the price seems not to be worth.

Using third party usb hub also affects performance. You plug both your external sata SSD and Audio interface and other midi controller in the usb hub with MBP, which often creats noise and pops on streaming. That's the reason why I suggest to use desktop computers, like iMacs they have multiple native thunderbolt3 and Usb3 connectors.

 

My mistake, that was a slip in writing. Sorry, I meaned three options:

1. Replace the original RAM with 2X32GB 2666MHz DDR4, total size:64GB

2. Add 2X32GB 2666MHz DDR4,total size:2X4GB origianl + 2X32GB new = 72GB

(but option 2  may not help improving performance)

The MHz won't matter, there is little improvement in loading speed or latency.

3. Replace with 4X16GB 2666 DDR4 which is a little bit cheaper.

If you plan to upgrade to 128GB, pick the first option.

i5 8th gen will be ok for now (under 100 tracks of VST with light usage of mix plugin).

I recommand to choose a CPU upgrade with Apple's official technician and pay the price if you are not DIYer.

Storage: 

2500MB/s is the serial read speed. Anyway, NVME usually has pretty higher 4K ramdom read speed, such as Samsung 970 evo/pro/plus, WD Black SN750, Apple's built-in SSD....

The 2019 iMac basic model start with a 1T fusion hardrive which is not a true SSD. It combines with HDD and a small slice of SSD (64GB-128GB). Make sure you choose the SSD 256G instead.

The Sata SSD you've been using may be one of the problems that produce dropout at low latency. (with large template, over 100 tracks)

You can try a Nvme SSD with your current machine and see if there is any improvement. If issus still remains, then go for new machine next year.

Ok, That's the reason you care about 32 buffer size, you really need that low latency.

Some points you need to pay attention before buying:

1. Make sure to get a set of RAM kits at the same Mhz as the originals. EX: your new iMac has 2X4GB Ram at 2666MHz, you'd better find one set of 2X32GB at 3000MHz to add, avoiding any compatibility issus.

RAMs may have compatibilty conflits even though they look familiar in tech description, so buy the kits instead of single ones. Kits are made with same DIE and tested by manufacturerers to make sure they work fine together.

2. Common RAM size is the mutiple of 2, such as 16,32,64,128 etc. 72 is a really rare size since computer nowaday funtion with dual rack of ram or single rack. Triple rack RAM can only be found ten years ago.

3.For most music production, desktop i7 8th generation is way too powerful. If you won't have some huge amouts of track to do mastering/mixing job, don't over commit to a top monster CPU, is a waste of money.

4.64GB is enough for most situation, check out how many projet you may reach the limit, don't invest on another 64GB that you will never use.

5. The speed of SSD should be taken as a foctor that affects your work flow. While using VST and huge samples in composing (VSL, Eastwest, Spitfire...etc), what matters is the 4K ramdom read speed. Computer loads part of your samples in the RAM, and search the rest in your SSD when receiving signals from your midi equitment(you play your master keyboard and creat some signals, they are "ramdom" to your computer). That's how modern sample players with "DFD"(direct from disk) work.

Nvme SSDs are the best choice for large orchestral VST arrangement. Apple's iMac has small harddrive in their basic models, and they charge plenty for hundreds of GB, so thinking of buying a Nvme SSD and a thounderbolt 3 external harddrive enclosure to store your samples.

Sata SSDs are cheaper but with less 4K ramdom read speed.

This factor may cause the crakles/drop out issus at low latency. Simply 'cause your SSD is not fast engouh to catch up with the CPU and RAM! Woodern barrel theory. Try to balance your budget on SSD, it will improve the whole system's performance in music prodution.

"i9 9th gen, 128RAM, Sata SSD" may result in much poor performance than "i7 9th gen ,64RAM, Nvme SSD".

 

Looking forward to listen to some of your composition and learn someting new :)

Do you have some recording projets? You only use sebelius for composing or you will play a midi keyboard in DAW in realtime?

In my opinion, you could raise the buffer size to 64 or 128 because latency isn't that matter with only sebelius playback. There is a tiny difference between 32 buffer size and 64 or 128 in this case. Or else you have to invest in a much powerful machine.

Sorry to hear about your MBP, composing for large orchestral music is a monster who swallows up your money especially while using Apple's products! Sometimes we've got to do what we have to, I've paid enough to figure out how this works. I was supposed to be simply a composer but not a hardware/computer DIY expert or something.

Hi,

http://www.scanproaudio.info/2019/07/12/amd-ryzen-3600-3700x-3900x-dawbench-tested-3-is-it-the-magic-number/

This test shows that AMD CPUs have better performance than their competitors:(3700X VS 9700K; 3900X VS 9900K). The 3700X has lower price and better audio performance than 9700K, while 3900X sold at a higher price (about 120 -150 euros higher) but as a more powerful CPU for music production than the intel 9900K.

Since the test is based on Kontakt VI, it seems to have similar result with VSLs' samples. 

Sometimes single-threaded performance based on gaming can't be simply considered as a reference to music production.

If you have a small budget, AMD maybe a better choice though I agree that both AMD/Intel can do the job. 

Regards,

moh