Hi Paul, 

It's on the info tab of the Vienna Protection Plan page. 

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Product_Overview/Vienna_Protection_Plan

Thanks. 

The VSL website says, "If you’d like to protect your licenses on your iLok keys, please refer to iLok’s Theft and Loss Coverage (only available on iLok 3 keys, not on iLok 2 keys)...."

But the link to the iLok page specifies, "Requires Second or Third Generation iLok USB."

Does this mean Theft/Loss Coverage is only available with iLok 3 specifically when it comes to VSL? The above quote from the iLok site suggests that iLok 2 dongles also have that option. 

From the Apple Logic update page, March 14, 2022:

"Resolves an issue in which there might be stuck notes when using the Vienna Instruments VEPro 7 Audio Units V3 plug-in."

On LPH, Dewdman42 confirms that this is a Logic bug. 

I think this issue will express itself with any Software Instrument, but I'm working with Vienna Ensemble Pro on Logic 10.7.2. This behavior also appeared in Logic 10.6.2.

I see the following when using an Articulation Set of four IDs, set to output Programs 1 to 4 respectively:

With the dimension in VE set to "Prg 1," meaning the top slot will be chosen when it receives a program 1 message, the second to Prg 2, then Prg 3 and 4 for the third and fourth slot, attempt the following: 

Highlight the first slot in VE. 

Set the live articulation (using the drop-downs in either the plug-in window or Piano Roll) to the second ID, which outputs a program 2 message. 

Play the keyboard. The second slot is not selected. There is no response to the program message that should be attached to live performance notes from Logic to VE Pro. 

Now, *record* with that same second live articulation ID -- and play it back. The recorded MIDI responds to the correct ID, the program 2 message seems to be sent, and the second slot is chosen and plays back. 

Simply put, Art ID messages set to output program numbers do not trigger the correct playback live, but once recorded, they work as intended. 

In my hour or so of testing, I can only reproduce this behavior when the Art ID outputs program messages. If I set both the Art ID set and VE dimension to send and receive a specific CC message, they perform both live and recorded as intended.

If anyone has both VE Pro and Logic 10.7.2, I'd welcome confirmation. I'll be cross-posting at Logic Pro Help.

Originally Posted by: MikeC

...is there a smarter way to compensate for this?

Synchron allows the setting of gain for all slots, in a family or individually. 

For an individual patch, select it (furthermost on the right) and then, in the Edit Tab, lower the Mix Volume -- the far left slider. 

To lower a family of slots (the parent and its child slots), select the parent, and then in the Edit Tab, lower that Mix setting. Note that this will affect all slots to the right that are branching out from the parent. If you click every slot to the right of the parent, you'll see they have also been assigned the same mix value. This is a very handy feature, but it can be confusing if you're not aware that it's happening. "Why are all these slots suddenly at -7?"

What you're describing would likely mean selecting the specific patch slots (the ones with the samples actually loaded -- farthest to the right) and adjusting those. 

Perhaps your issue is different. But when that happens to me (and it only happens when I'm designing my own templates), here's an example of what's going on:

A dimension is set to A0. It has two slots: A0 and B0.

Somewhere else, there's another dimension that starts at C0. It has 10 slots, chromatically ascending. Everything plays fine...

Until I hit keyswitch A0. This is because the tenth slot in the second dimension (starting at C0) shares A0 with the first dimension (starting at A0). And these may be completely unrelated dimensions. 

The duplicate assignments are harder to find than my simplistic example. But as you can see, it has nothing to do with Groups or their naming. It's simply one instance with a duplicate assignment hiding deep in the weeds of two (or more) slots. And they often are found in unrelated slots -- not parent/child slots. 

When these are triggered, the slot tree orientation may change, and it's befuddling. 

Understandably, starting fresh remedies this, as does using the VSL Presets, as the former is built from scratch without duplicate assignments and the latter is assembled by our wiser counterparts at VSL. 

I can’t speak for the crashes, but welltempered is correct about the fix for the missing samples.

https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t58058-00-Timpani---Adams---All-m---SP-I-III--Preset#post305938

Hello PaoloT, 

What follows is some, but perhaps not all of the evidence, with a decision to follow. 

This list assumes that VI Dimension Brass and Synchron-ized Dimension Brass are identical. If our magnanimous friends at VSL snuck in bonus patches in the conversion, those sounds might not be represented here. 

Evidence

VI Horns offer both a Viennese Horn and a Triple Horn. Though Dimension Horns are playable solo, I don't recall them distinguishing per type of horn.

Dimension Horns have three variations of light dynamics not found in the VI Triple Horn. 

The VI Triple Horn has three pfp variations and two strong dynamic patches, all missing in Dimension Horns. 

The Viennese Horn has ten patches dedicated to dynamic no vibrato sounds. All are missing from Dimension Horns. 

The Viennese Horn has recorded interval trills of a major and minor second. The Dimension Horns have no recorded trills -- only performance trills. 

Dimension Trumpets have three variations of light dynamics not found in the VI Trumpet. 

The VI Trumpet has two pfp variations and two strong dynamic patches, all missing in Dimension Trumpets. 

The VI Trumpet has six patches dedicated to dynamic no vibrato sounds. All are missing from Dimension Trumpets. 

The VI Trumpet has recorded interval trills of a major and minor second. The Dimension Trumpets have no recorded trills -- only performance trills. 

Dimension Trombones have a blare sample not found in solo trombones. 

Dimension Trombones have a performance trill not found in the solos. 

Again, Dimension Trombones have three variations of light dynamics not found in the VI solo trombones. 

VI Trombone has two strong dynamic patches not found in Dimension Trombones. 

Again, there are four no vibrato dynamics for VI Trombones (normal, mute A and B) and three strong no vibrato dynamic patches in the normal VI Trombone. Dimension Trombones do not have these.

Verdict

With deep empathy for your desire to simplify your template and the frustration of so many choices, it is probably still best to keep both libraries resident. 

Plowman

Originally Posted by: Macker

No doubt he'll also cover Logic Pro 10.7 very soon.

No doubt indeed: 

http://dingdingmusic.com/-titles-/logic-pro---whats-new-in-10_7.html

There's a lot of good study books and tutorials in the Logic universe, but when it comes to degree of detail, graphic layout and depth of information, Edgar stands alone. The production quality of his videos is superb. These are the products of a man totally immersed in his work. 

I too have no professional affiliation with him. 

My percussion bundle appears properly installed, correctly licensed and online. All three percussion libraries are listed in the eLicenser Control Center, and all presets load and play. But there is an exception:

In the preset 00 Timpani - Adams - All m. (SP I-III) Preset, consider:

C1 Medium mallets > F1 Single strokes > Ringing / Secco. The patches are not appearing, the slots are red-exxed, and in the channel set, "SY player" is red-boxed. 

As an example, the first patch slot calls for 01 Tmp-Ad-mr20_Open. No such patch appears in the patch menu. However, there is a patch that does not break down the instruments per size: 01 Tmp-Ad-mr_Open.

Check the "02 Flute 1 VelXF sus" preset. The diminuendos are loaded with crescendo patches. The corresponding Flute 2 preset is correctly mapped. 

Is there a detailed list of this second expansion pack's articulations (September 2021). The overview I'm seeing refers to the first expansion pack (with the pure legatos). 

At an unchanging note velocity of 80, and the AB switch set on B for the diminuendo, G7 ( white key ) sounds like strong 4 seconds and G#7 ( black key ) sounds like medium 4 seconds -- A7 ( white key ) sounds like strong 8 seconds  and A#7 ( white key ) sounds like medium 8 seconds. 

But the manual says the strong dynamics are on the black keys. 

Possibly the white F7 key should have been skipped to keep the strong / medium = black / white ordering preserved. 

Here is my note-by note understanding of the solo snare-on dynamic key assignments. This is from page 36 of the VI percussion manual. Am I reading it correctly? The differences in the dynamic level are sometimes difficult to hear. 

C#7 strong 0.5 seconds. ( black key )

D7  medium 0.5 seconds ( white key )

D#7 strong 1 second ( black key )

E7 medium 1 second ( white key )

F7 medium 2 seconds ( white key ) 

F#7 strong 2 seconds ( black key )

G7 medium 4 seconds ( white key )

G#7 strong 4 seconds ( black key )

A7 medium 8 seconds ( white key )

A#7 strong 8 seconds ( black key )

Thank you. Could you tell me where VSL/ Synchron preferences are located? I've deleted Logic's preferences many times, but never anything by VSL.

Beyond that. hopefully someone at VSL can comment on preset limitations. 

Welcome to the forum. 

VSL has never offered articulation sets for Logic, even when the number of dimensions was three or less. 

Do a search on "Audiogrocery XDAW." This is a third party program designed to accommodate far more than three  keyswitches. Its developer, Ivan, is very responsive to users' questions. There is, however, a learning curve. 

XDAW allows three different ways to create articulation sets. It can be used as a simple builder of three-switch Art sets, in which case you just save the set in Logic's correct folder. You could build the very same thing in Logic, but XDAW has features to expedite the build. However, because of the very issue you mention, a straight-forward Logic Art set, no matter where or how it was built, only drives three keyswitches -- hence no Synchron String Pro / Elite. 

The last two ways include automation and the use of Scripter. Either of these two is required for more than three keyswitches. (You don't have to know how to write scripts.)

I rebuild my templates frequently. Sifting Synchron Pro / Elite Strings into no more than three dimensions is a challenge, especially if you want to preserve all the options. It's a great way to learn the library and the Synchron Player. But it does take time. 

If you pursue XDAW, ask Ivan if he has any pre-made Synchron files. 

1. I load a VSL native preset, rename it, and save it in my custom folder. When I load that saved, renamed file, the preset name in the Synchron Mix tab does not change, when in fact, the new preset has successfully loaded. 

Is this a known issue? 

2. Do Synchron users have direct, per folder access to VSL native presets? It seems the only way I can get to them is to load a full preset (slots and all), then rebuild my template from there to preserve access to VSL's mixer presets. 

If that's true, it's a late realization for me, as I've built several templates by hand, and now the only mixer preset option I have for these rebuilds is "default."

As an example, if the user rebuilds the solo flute 1 from scratch -- from a completely new Synchron channel -- is there any way he can access the VSL solo flute 1 mixer presets ( close, classic, wide, etc.)? It appears the only way is to load the native VSL solo flute 1 preset on a new channel set and copy/paste the scratch-built slots. 

Am I correct that mix channels in the Synchron Player can only be deleted from right to left? As an owner of only the standard packages, that seems to leave me with channels that aren't being used and cannot be individually removed (or it requires the deletion and rebuilding of channels I'd like to keep).

I view this company with on-going wonderment. 

My progression is familiar to many of you: Emax > Roland S550 > Kurzweil 2500K (orchestral ROM)  > EXS > Giga > Vienna > Vienna plus Synchron. 

Actually it all began with the SCI Six-Trak, whose marketing handout proclaimed "Your Personal Orchestra." ... All six analog voices. Of course, if you wanted to sequence those voices as discrete instruments, you needed a Commodore 64.

Those who are now entering VSL libraries for the first time should count their blessings. "Son, when I was your age...."

VSL is peerless. As William has indicated, they were the fork in the sampling road. 

The new Synchron-ized Bassoon 2 is labeled "01 BA2_perf-legato_Vib." Unlike all other expansion legatos, this one is not called "pure legato" (and Bassoon 1 is "01 BA1_perf-legato pure").

The original Synchron-ized Bassoon 2 is called "22 BA2_legato_mV." There, the "perf" is missing, though it is called legato. 

I'm just curious if these two patches were recorded differently. I'm also not sure how anything can be "legato" unless it is a "perf legato."

In any case, the "legato pure" patches are great. 

In the world of VSL, there's no such thing as a finished template....

Fantastic. 

Mr. Kersten is correct. But I'm glad you asked, because I want to clarify that I absolutely want all MIR-related elements to match as much as possible, notably the ones you mention: MIR's tail length and relative dry/wetness. 

Two points: I am prone to falling into rabbit holes, the infinite tweak, the "I'm here to compose... but I want everything to match perfectly before I begin." That's a fool's errand. One may argue (perhaps ad absurdum) that even the same orchestra in the same room sounds different from hour to hour. Certainly intonation, humidity, general human energy, and other terrestrial factors constantly change. 

But more specifically, I was fresh from the experimenting with "identical" instruments -- say, VI chamber cellos and Synchron-ized chamber cellos (where ostensibly they are the same original samples). One had a sheen, a more biting sound, and the other was smoother. Here we broach matters of EQ, the changes the developers may have made to the original material, plug-ins, etc., all compounding upon themselves. (Such things were not obvious, though, based on the mixing settings.)

Those differences, I decided, were to be celebrated as options. Many here have the chops to further homogenize them. It's not my skill set. 

But yes, regarding the length of the tail, the general room sound, and certainly the average loudness of the instrument, I very much want VI and Synchron to be as identical as possible for a convincing, unified sound. 

You make a good point differentiating Synchron from Synchron-ized, as with the latter you can indeed turn off the IR and route through MIR. Personally, I have automated the IR wet/dry within Synchron-ized sounds, and I adjust it per instrument with Logic's Smart Controls. If I did send Synchronized patches to MIR, immediately I'd gain more options. 

It's ironic: just this week I have matched and compared VSL's Synchronized sounds (with their built-in Synchron IR's) to my dry VI library going through MIR -- and then I compared those to Synchron native per-mike mixes. It's quite an education. One must be careful not to press too hard for identical sounds (which is tempting when you want the liberty of using both VI and Synchron / Synchronized in the same song -- such is the source of your hope and frustration). 

I may be able to clarify two other points you have raised. Describing Synchron native sounds as neither wet nor dry is not quite accurate. Yes, the Synchron native instruments were recorded on the Synchron Stage, but they were captured with multiple microphones simultaneously. These are found in the Mix tab of the Synchron player when a native Synchron patch is loaded. 

Survey the mikes. The close mic is more or less dry, but not completely so, the main microphone is wetter, but not awash with reverb, and so on. It's a completely different paradigm for mixing and positioning, separate from MIR, distinct from the old days of bus sends.  

And I had to laugh when I read, "...the 'natural volume' is useless as it makes everything 4x quieter than it already was." The first time I used natural volume, I thought it was a bug. Only later did I realize that it's an amazing resource *when it is used for the entire orchestra.* I came at it with faders at unity gain, virtually no headroom, and if any given instrument had "natural volume" checked, it would disappear from the orchestra. Gain structures are relative.