Hello Stig, 

The compendious nature of Synchron Strings Pro and Elite presents a second problem in Logic Pro: the DAW only holds 256 articulations. Should the Synchron users of these libraries hope to create a thorough template that makes available every permutation of sound that the interface offers, the possibilities far exceed 256. Trust me, I've gone there.  

(By the way, if you use Smart Controls to call up articulations, *that* can only dial in 127 patches. It's gets jumpy beyond that.)

I've been cobbling together templates since my Roland S550 in the late 80's, through Kurzweil, Giga and into Vienna Instruments, and it has always been my goal to make everything immediately available. With Synchron Pro, I had to make concessions. 

I do own XDAW, and I've used it to my advantage. In particular, it enables me to assemble even Logic native Articulation Sets (limited to three switches) with ease. And I've used the XDAW scripts too to allow for more-than-three art selection. 

But I've used XDAW more for template construction in recent seasons. Here's why:  

Articulations in my XDAW scripted version of a complete Synchron Pro template reached into the mid 400's. I worked that way for a season. But over time, it was just too much. Yeah, it was all there, any sound I wanted, but at what cost? The drop-down menu was a half mile long. I am often victim of my own thoroughness. 

So to answer your question, I willfully limited my Pro / Elite templates. I kept it at three arts only, built the template with XDAW but didn't use a script, and I made (very reluctant) allowances for keyswitches. 

An example: an articulation calls up legato molto vibrato, and I embed region keyswitches for attack and release. (In VSL factory presets, release is often F7 or G7, and attacks go from A7 to C8). 

It's annoying. I hate keyswitches. But it's the compromise I made according to the very issue you raise. I wanted all articulations available in a shorter list, even if it required a secondary key switch for just the right expressivity per musical context.. 

As easily, a user can have XDAW use its multiple art capacity with a script and just make fewer items (more specific in sound, but fewer in total number) for a shorter menu. (Real world fact: we use the same thirty or so sounds 98% of the time.  )

Regarding delays, I want to make sure you're aware that Logic Pro allows for delay settings per region. It should be found in the Region Parameters box at the upper left of Inspector in Main. 

Thanks Paul.

I'm grateful and a bit surprised that the orchestral VI Strings will be migrated to Synchron-ized libraries. Not only are the runs currently exclusive to them, they also have useful patches like minor and major third trills which are useful for filling out chords. Other neat sounds include upbeats, slurred legato, grace notes and dynamic fast reps.   

Finally of course, there is the nostalgic value. 

Originally Posted by: PaoloT

"...they are much easier to use!"

Emphatic agreement. I own nearly all things Vienna Instruments, but Synchron's strengths are inarguable when it comes to the layout of multiple pre-recorded phrases such as the arpeggios and glissandi heard here. 

Hello Paul, 

Question 1: Is the following correct regarding string runs in the currently available Synchron libraries?

1. They only exist in Synchron Strings FX.

2. I just listened to the runs in the video. They are "FX-ey," and in sound and intent, they differ from standard runs and arpeggios found in Synchron-ized Woodwinds, for example (as drawn from the runs in the initial VI winds).

3. Aside from cranking up the "close" mic position, I don't think the FX patches can be isolated by instrument. 

 4. The VI Orchestral Strings -- among the oldest libraries -- have not been Synchron-ized, so those runs are not available in the Synchron format. 

I am looking for straight-forward runs and arpeggios in either native Synchron or Synchron-ized libraries for violins, violas, cellos and basses, and it appears they're not yet included. In lieu of such patches, I've needed to load my VI runs and of course, they have fewer options related to tempo sync. 

Question 2: If the above is correct, is it possible a subsequent Synchron library might include such runs? 

Thanks. 

 If I started with a blanc slate, and empty preset, is it possible for me to layer this and have the independent crossfade control - velocity on the short and mod wheel on the long, while layering both patches?

Yes.

Start with a clean Synchron slate.

Click on the upper right gear icon, go to Engine, and unselect "Enable slots on MIDI activity."

In Perform, set Vel XF to CC1 (mod wheel).

Now drag the trumpet sustain "14 Trp1 Long Vib" into the first slot.

Beneath it, drag in the portato "05 Trp1 Portato"into the second (bottom) slot.

Click on the blue "Parallel" icon (with the stacked squares). Now you're in parallel mode. 

Go to the Edit tab.

Click on the top slot (sustain trumpet).

Set "Parallel Mode" in the Options list to the lower right to Mix. (Now the sustain will continue to sound.)

Click on the bottom slot (portato).

Set "Parallel Mode" in the Options list to the lower right to XFade. (Now the portato will only sound per the dimension setting -- see next step).  

Select the dimension box (to the left of the Parallel icon (blue stacked square icon).

Set it to Dim.Ctrl/A (though any dimension can work).

Now in the Dimension menu below the slots, click-hold the drop-down menu and select "Velocity." Now "Dim.Ctrl/A will respond to Velocity.

Play the keyboard and ride the mod wheel. 

You should hear the sustain playing throughout, getting softer or louder depending the mod wheel, and the portato speaking softer or louder depending on how hard you hit the keyboard. 

Okay, because "Enable slots on MIDI activity" is off, try this: disable the sustain patch (top slot) by clicking on the left portion of the slot. 

Play again. The sustain is not playing, and you should hear the portato coming from near-nothing to the loudest amplitude (and strongest timbre) the harder you hit the keyboard. This helps to understand what's happening. 

Going a little deeper in the weeds, you can adjust either slot's ADSR and volume in the Edit tab for a better balance and behavior. 

In the Edit Tab section of the Synchron Player manual, point 5 states the following:

"Decay: Changes the decay time of the patch. The decay time begins when the hold time ends and fades to the sustenuto level. This value is scalable with the Humanize Delay Scale Slider in your Perform Tab."

Point 8 reads:

"Delay: Sets note-on delay for currently selected humanize index. Can be scaled with the Humanize Delay Scale."

Am I correct that point 5 is a typo? I'm assuming the decay envelope setting is not affected by the humanizing delay control. 

If VSL isn't listening to Jay Bacal (whose request appears above), I'm not sure my vote will count. In my present template build, the inability to stop that release sample is prohibitive to my intended design. Please good Vienna people, let us override the release sounds with a per-slot setting in the Edit tab. 

Thanks Macker. You get it exactly. 

"I'm not sure what your idea includes when you say 'and copy along with it its native Mixer channels.' "

When the SY slot is pasted into a SYzd dimension tree, the hope was that the SY's output mix channels would be added to the SYzd Mixer tab. So if, in its native SY habitat, the SY patch slot outputted to the common Main / Main-C / Mid / Close channels, those channels would be also pasted into the target Mixer tab.

I'm not complaining. VSL has bigger fish to fry than this, I know. 

"...we can't directly copy/paste the Output Config matrix settings."

Yes. In the porting over I described, each Patch Slot had to have its Output Config separately configured. It's not like the Setting page, for example, where setting can be copied and pasted to different instances. I think the ability to cut and paste Output Configs might be a reasonable feature request -- sort of like the ability to drag SY mixer channel's for re-ordering. 

"... setting up the extra channel(s) in the mixer has to be done only once...."

Right. It was the only silver lining in the process. 

My reason to do this was something of an anomaly. For a two-staff trombone display (three trombones and a tuba), I sought SYzd Dimension trombone three and SY Tuba to sound in a stack for a2 performance on the second staff. Alas, there is no SYzd Tuba, so I resourced the SY Tuba. Hence the merging of SYzd and SY in a single instance.

Synchron-ized instruments are outputted through one Mixer channel with an attached IR. 

Synchron patches output through several Mixer channels (Room/Main/Main-C, etc.)

If the user wants to put two Patch slots -- one SY-zd, one Synchron -- sounding simultaneously in one channel set, must he manually re-create each Synchron mixer channels by hand, then set the Synchron's Patch Slot's Output Config? 

That is, is there no way to copy a Synchron patch slot and copy along with it its native Mixer channels when pasting it beneath a pre-existing SY-zd Patch Slot?

(Yeah, if it sounds too confusing, never mind. I don't want to explain it again. :-) )

In the Perform Tab, select the patch slot (the one that has the actual samples loaded), furthest to the right. 

Click on the blue arrows to the right of the graphical keyboard, on the lowest, farthest right of the screen. 

This will enable handles that limit / extend the playable range. 

Note that this setting is independent for all Patch Slots, and you can limit / extend them individually in a stack. 

Greetings Macker. I'm grateful for your note and the link. Indeed I had read that thread this summer, but it didn't click that it was the same problem.

In a world of bugs, the first hope is a fix. But hopes two and three are that other users observe it, and company acknowledges the problem. Paul's comment was two months and two days ago, so hopefully it won't be much longer. 

Thanks again. 

Originally Posted by: Home Studio 87

Same for me till iLok transfert.

Thanks for responding, but I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying it happened before you switched to iLok, or it started to happen after you switched to iLok? 

Beyond that, from the silence on this thread and no response for VSL, I may be dealing with this annoyance on my own. Such is computing. It's about twenty separate clicks after each power-up to get all instruments visible in a three-pane array.  

Though I save VESP files exactly as I'd like, with three separate windows for VI instruments ( instrument / MIR / mixer ), it does not reload properly. Instrument is missing, I have to re-select the instrument (though it's already selected / highlighted ), then either use the drop-down menu View > Instrument or hit F4. And then I have to run a "Restore Default Window Layout" command to correctly apportion the three windows.

I have to do this for every instance each time I open the file.

Has anyone experienced this, and is VSL aware of this behavior? Is there a setting I've overlooked? This is using VE 7.1.1406, VI 2.6.99. 

You cannot adjust the Matrix keyswitches using the keyboard at the bottom of the window. That's a graphical representation only. 

In the upper left is the list of matrices. To the left of each row is a little box, and the top item no doubt says "C0." Click-drag that little box to your new destination to make room for CO in your X-axis. Also, you can double-click and type in a new letter. 

The octave below C0 is indicated with a tilde. In other words, the very lowest possible keyswitch is C~, which is an octave below C0. The highest possible keyswitch is G9. 

VSL crossgrade prices are so low, I feel like I should leave a tip. 

Cool. If you intend to orchestrate with a DAW, VE Pro is inevitable. But the good news is that VI Pro is the building block, and everything learned on that will carry over to the larger program. 

Here's the VI to VEP hierarchy:

A patch holds samples. 

A slot holds a patch. 

A cell holds slots. 

A matrix holds cells.

A preset holds matrices. 

And to continue in Vienna Ensemble Pro:

A channel set holds a preset. 

An instance holds channel sets. (saved as .vecs)

A server project holds instances. (saved as .vesp)

DaddyO is correct. One may define a Preset as an entire collection of matrices. Loading a new Preset will overwrite the existing collection.

To rephrase your question, is it possible to merge presets in a single VI Pro? And the answer is no. You can save matrices and load them one on top of the other, but not presets.  

Customizing a full orchestra for one VI Pro preset is possible, strictly speaking, But to my knowledge, one VI Pro instance can only receive one channel. That would be tough to coordinate a playback. Again, possible but nowhere near optimal. 

Vienna Ensemble Pro exists to solve this very issue. It can drive a bunch of VI Pro's (each with their own preset) on different channels. 

A place in my extended template has been reserved for Synchron-ized Solo Strings Con Sordino, or as MMKA correctly intuits, "Synchron-ized Solo Strings II."

Beyond that, nothing is certain but death and taxes... and Synchron Pro and Elite Con Sord Strings. 

When, I haven't a clue. 

Having just loaded the update, I have lost the ability to import instances from pre-existing vesp64 files. Can anyone verify this? 

Wonderful detective work, Macker. Fascinating to see the duplicated adjacent samples. C4 seems to be unto itself. And note the lack of vibrato in the open G3 string. 

Like you, I don't hear phasing, other than what my mind fears due to auto-suggestion -- like when you move the wrong fader and tell yourself you can hear the difference. 

Here's another point of interest: Synchron-ized Appassionata violin long vibratos are *labeled* differently. This does not prove that they are different samples. But unlike the Dimensions, they at least have different text read-outs:

"patchEntry" : "vol:\/\/at.co.vsl.sy.appstr:public\/patches\/01 SYzd Appassionata Violins 1\/03 SVI-20A_Long-Vib.vsynpatch",

"patchEntry" : "vol:\/\/at.co.vsl.sy.appstr:public\/patches\/02 SYzd Appassionata Violins 2\/03 SVI-20B_Long-Vib.vsynpatch",

This library has first and second violins. 

The first violins' first player's sustain patch slot reads as follows:

"patchEntry" : "vol:\/\/at.co.vsl.sy.dimstrI.vi:public\/patches\/01 Dimension Violins\/01 Violins Player 1\/01 Regular\/01 SHORT + LONG NOTES\/11 VI-P1_RE_sus_Vib.vsynpatch",

"performances" : [

The second violins' first player's sustain patch slot reads as follows:

"patchEntry" : "vol:\/\/at.co.vsl.sy.dimstrI.vi:public\/patches\/01 Dimension Violins\/01 Violins Player 1\/01 Regular\/01 SHORT + LONG NOTES\/11 VI-P1_RE_sus_Vib.vsynpatch",

"performances" : [

These appear to be identical. Am I correct that the difference between the samples' sound is the Synchron Stage IR in the players' mix settings? ("Dim Violins 1" and "Dim Violins 2") Otherwise, are they the same samples?

I'm building a new template right now, and I'm about to treat them as the same samples. 

Well done, dbudde!

So how deep in the weeds can Plowman go?

Vienna Instruments > 01 Violin solo 2 > 1 Vibrato > 14 VI2_dim-str_Vib_2s > E5 has no vibrato. 

And that's how deep in the weeds Plowman can go. 

Fixed indeed. Grateful.

Thanks Bill. I have not seen it reported, but it's been around for a long time. It would not seem to be a hard issue to fix, considering the Herculean feats that VSL has accomplished.