Greetings Macker. I'm grateful for your note and the link. Indeed I had read that thread this summer, but it didn't click that it was the same problem.

In a world of bugs, the first hope is a fix. But hopes two and three are that other users observe it, and company acknowledges the problem. Paul's comment was two months and two days ago, so hopefully it won't be much longer. 

Thanks again. 

Originally Posted by: Home Studio 87

Same for me till iLok transfert.

Thanks for responding, but I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying it happened before you switched to iLok, or it started to happen after you switched to iLok? 

Beyond that, from the silence on this thread and no response for VSL, I may be dealing with this annoyance on my own. Such is computing. It's about twenty separate clicks after each power-up to get all instruments visible in a three-pane array.  

Though I save VESP files exactly as I'd like, with three separate windows for VI instruments ( instrument / MIR / mixer ), it does not reload properly. Instrument is missing, I have to re-select the instrument (though it's already selected / highlighted ), then either use the drop-down menu View > Instrument or hit F4. And then I have to run a "Restore Default Window Layout" command to correctly apportion the three windows.

I have to do this for every instance each time I open the file.

Has anyone experienced this, and is VSL aware of this behavior? Is there a setting I've overlooked? This is using VE 7.1.1406, VI 2.6.99. 

You cannot adjust the Matrix keyswitches using the keyboard at the bottom of the window. That's a graphical representation only. 

In the upper left is the list of matrices. To the left of each row is a little box, and the top item no doubt says "C0." Click-drag that little box to your new destination to make room for CO in your X-axis. Also, you can double-click and type in a new letter. 

The octave below C0 is indicated with a tilde. In other words, the very lowest possible keyswitch is C~, which is an octave below C0. The highest possible keyswitch is G9. 

VSL crossgrade prices are so low, I feel like I should leave a tip. 

Cool. If you intend to orchestrate with a DAW, VE Pro is inevitable. But the good news is that VI Pro is the building block, and everything learned on that will carry over to the larger program. 

Here's the VI to VEP hierarchy:

A patch holds samples. 

A slot holds a patch. 

A cell holds slots. 

A matrix holds cells.

A preset holds matrices. 

And to continue in Vienna Ensemble Pro:

A channel set holds a preset. 

An instance holds channel sets. (saved as .vecs)

A server project holds instances. (saved as .vesp)

DaddyO is correct. One may define a Preset as an entire collection of matrices. Loading a new Preset will overwrite the existing collection.

To rephrase your question, is it possible to merge presets in a single VI Pro? And the answer is no. You can save matrices and load them one on top of the other, but not presets.  

Customizing a full orchestra for one VI Pro preset is possible, strictly speaking, But to my knowledge, one VI Pro instance can only receive one channel. That would be tough to coordinate a playback. Again, possible but nowhere near optimal. 

Vienna Ensemble Pro exists to solve this very issue. It can drive a bunch of VI Pro's (each with their own preset) on different channels. 

A place in my extended template has been reserved for Synchron-ized Solo Strings Con Sordino, or as MMKA correctly intuits, "Synchron-ized Solo Strings II."

Beyond that, nothing is certain but death and taxes... and Synchron Pro and Elite Con Sord Strings. 

When, I haven't a clue. 

Having just loaded the update, I have lost the ability to import instances from pre-existing vesp64 files. Can anyone verify this? 

Wonderful detective work, Macker. Fascinating to see the duplicated adjacent samples. C4 seems to be unto itself. And note the lack of vibrato in the open G3 string. 

Like you, I don't hear phasing, other than what my mind fears due to auto-suggestion -- like when you move the wrong fader and tell yourself you can hear the difference. 

Here's another point of interest: Synchron-ized Appassionata violin long vibratos are *labeled* differently. This does not prove that they are different samples. But unlike the Dimensions, they at least have different text read-outs:

"patchEntry" : "vol:\/\/at.co.vsl.sy.appstr:public\/patches\/01 SYzd Appassionata Violins 1\/03 SVI-20A_Long-Vib.vsynpatch",

"patchEntry" : "vol:\/\/at.co.vsl.sy.appstr:public\/patches\/02 SYzd Appassionata Violins 2\/03 SVI-20B_Long-Vib.vsynpatch",

This library has first and second violins. 

The first violins' first player's sustain patch slot reads as follows:

"patchEntry" : "vol:\/\/at.co.vsl.sy.dimstrI.vi:public\/patches\/01 Dimension Violins\/01 Violins Player 1\/01 Regular\/01 SHORT + LONG NOTES\/11 VI-P1_RE_sus_Vib.vsynpatch",

"performances" : [

The second violins' first player's sustain patch slot reads as follows:

"patchEntry" : "vol:\/\/at.co.vsl.sy.dimstrI.vi:public\/patches\/01 Dimension Violins\/01 Violins Player 1\/01 Regular\/01 SHORT + LONG NOTES\/11 VI-P1_RE_sus_Vib.vsynpatch",

"performances" : [

These appear to be identical. Am I correct that the difference between the samples' sound is the Synchron Stage IR in the players' mix settings? ("Dim Violins 1" and "Dim Violins 2") Otherwise, are they the same samples?

I'm building a new template right now, and I'm about to treat them as the same samples. 

Well done, dbudde!

So how deep in the weeds can Plowman go?

Vienna Instruments > 01 Violin solo 2 > 1 Vibrato > 14 VI2_dim-str_Vib_2s > E5 has no vibrato. 

And that's how deep in the weeds Plowman can go. 

Fixed indeed. Grateful.

Thanks Bill. I have not seen it reported, but it's been around for a long time. It would not seem to be a hard issue to fix, considering the Herculean feats that VSL has accomplished. 

I've observed this behavior for years now. It can be a serious issue for users who do not backup their server VESP64 files.  

Vienna Ensemble has a function that can fetch an instance from a previously saved server file and insert it into the server you're designing. Wonderful. I use it all the time. 

Unfortunately, VEP will surreptitiously retitle the server you're designing. 

Here's an example. You're working on a server file called "New" and you import an instance from the file "My perfect, took-months-to-refine" file.

If you have no backup of "My perfect, took-months-to-refine" file, and you hit save, thinking you've saved "New," you'll find that VEP saved your "New" file with the title "My perfect, took-months-to-refine" file.

In other words, it overwrote the file that took you months to refine. It retitles the destination file of your import as the source. 

We're mature. We backup our files. But this clandestine retitling of a file lies in wait for those less vigilant. 

Hi Paul, 

It's on the info tab of the Vienna Protection Plan page. 

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Product_Overview/Vienna_Protection_Plan

Thanks. 

The VSL website says, "If you’d like to protect your licenses on your iLok keys, please refer to iLok’s Theft and Loss Coverage (only available on iLok 3 keys, not on iLok 2 keys)...."

But the link to the iLok page specifies, "Requires Second or Third Generation iLok USB."

Does this mean Theft/Loss Coverage is only available with iLok 3 specifically when it comes to VSL? The above quote from the iLok site suggests that iLok 2 dongles also have that option. 

From the Apple Logic update page, March 14, 2022:

"Resolves an issue in which there might be stuck notes when using the Vienna Instruments VEPro 7 Audio Units V3 plug-in."

On LPH, Dewdman42 confirms that this is a Logic bug. 

I think this issue will express itself with any Software Instrument, but I'm working with Vienna Ensemble Pro on Logic 10.7.2. This behavior also appeared in Logic 10.6.2.

I see the following when using an Articulation Set of four IDs, set to output Programs 1 to 4 respectively:

With the dimension in VE set to "Prg 1," meaning the top slot will be chosen when it receives a program 1 message, the second to Prg 2, then Prg 3 and 4 for the third and fourth slot, attempt the following: 

Highlight the first slot in VE. 

Set the live articulation (using the drop-downs in either the plug-in window or Piano Roll) to the second ID, which outputs a program 2 message. 

Play the keyboard. The second slot is not selected. There is no response to the program message that should be attached to live performance notes from Logic to VE Pro. 

Now, *record* with that same second live articulation ID -- and play it back. The recorded MIDI responds to the correct ID, the program 2 message seems to be sent, and the second slot is chosen and plays back. 

Simply put, Art ID messages set to output program numbers do not trigger the correct playback live, but once recorded, they work as intended. 

In my hour or so of testing, I can only reproduce this behavior when the Art ID outputs program messages. If I set both the Art ID set and VE dimension to send and receive a specific CC message, they perform both live and recorded as intended.

If anyone has both VE Pro and Logic 10.7.2, I'd welcome confirmation. I'll be cross-posting at Logic Pro Help.

Originally Posted by: MikeC

...is there a smarter way to compensate for this?

Synchron allows the setting of gain for all slots, in a family or individually. 

For an individual patch, select it (furthermost on the right) and then, in the Edit Tab, lower the Mix Volume -- the far left slider. 

To lower a family of slots (the parent and its child slots), select the parent, and then in the Edit Tab, lower that Mix setting. Note that this will affect all slots to the right that are branching out from the parent. If you click every slot to the right of the parent, you'll see they have also been assigned the same mix value. This is a very handy feature, but it can be confusing if you're not aware that it's happening. "Why are all these slots suddenly at -7?"

What you're describing would likely mean selecting the specific patch slots (the ones with the samples actually loaded -- farthest to the right) and adjusting those. 

Perhaps your issue is different. But when that happens to me (and it only happens when I'm designing my own templates), here's an example of what's going on:

A dimension is set to A0. It has two slots: A0 and B0.

Somewhere else, there's another dimension that starts at C0. It has 10 slots, chromatically ascending. Everything plays fine...

Until I hit keyswitch A0. This is because the tenth slot in the second dimension (starting at C0) shares A0 with the first dimension (starting at A0). And these may be completely unrelated dimensions. 

The duplicate assignments are harder to find than my simplistic example. But as you can see, it has nothing to do with Groups or their naming. It's simply one instance with a duplicate assignment hiding deep in the weeds of two (or more) slots. And they often are found in unrelated slots -- not parent/child slots. 

When these are triggered, the slot tree orientation may change, and it's befuddling. 

Understandably, starting fresh remedies this, as does using the VSL Presets, as the former is built from scratch without duplicate assignments and the latter is assembled by our wiser counterparts at VSL. 

I can’t speak for the crashes, but welltempered is correct about the fix for the missing samples.

https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t58058-00-Timpani---Adams---All-m---SP-I-III--Preset#post305938

Hello PaoloT, 

What follows is some, but perhaps not all of the evidence, with a decision to follow. 

This list assumes that VI Dimension Brass and Synchron-ized Dimension Brass are identical. If our magnanimous friends at VSL snuck in bonus patches in the conversion, those sounds might not be represented here. 

Evidence

VI Horns offer both a Viennese Horn and a Triple Horn. Though Dimension Horns are playable solo, I don't recall them distinguishing per type of horn.

Dimension Horns have three variations of light dynamics not found in the VI Triple Horn. 

The VI Triple Horn has three pfp variations and two strong dynamic patches, all missing in Dimension Horns. 

The Viennese Horn has ten patches dedicated to dynamic no vibrato sounds. All are missing from Dimension Horns. 

The Viennese Horn has recorded interval trills of a major and minor second. The Dimension Horns have no recorded trills -- only performance trills. 

Dimension Trumpets have three variations of light dynamics not found in the VI Trumpet. 

The VI Trumpet has two pfp variations and two strong dynamic patches, all missing in Dimension Trumpets. 

The VI Trumpet has six patches dedicated to dynamic no vibrato sounds. All are missing from Dimension Trumpets. 

The VI Trumpet has recorded interval trills of a major and minor second. The Dimension Trumpets have no recorded trills -- only performance trills. 

Dimension Trombones have a blare sample not found in solo trombones. 

Dimension Trombones have a performance trill not found in the solos. 

Again, Dimension Trombones have three variations of light dynamics not found in the VI solo trombones. 

VI Trombone has two strong dynamic patches not found in Dimension Trombones. 

Again, there are four no vibrato dynamics for VI Trombones (normal, mute A and B) and three strong no vibrato dynamic patches in the normal VI Trombone. Dimension Trombones do not have these.

Verdict

With deep empathy for your desire to simplify your template and the frustration of so many choices, it is probably still best to keep both libraries resident. 

Plowman