Mr. Kersten is correct. But I'm glad you asked, because I want to clarify that I absolutely want all MIR-related elements to match as much as possible, notably the ones you mention: MIR's tail length and relative dry/wetness. 

Two points: I am prone to falling into rabbit holes, the infinite tweak, the "I'm here to compose... but I want everything to match perfectly before I begin." That's a fool's errand. One may argue (perhaps ad absurdum) that even the same orchestra in the same room sounds different from hour to hour. Certainly intonation, humidity, general human energy, and other terrestrial factors constantly change. 

But more specifically, I was fresh from the experimenting with "identical" instruments -- say, VI chamber cellos and Synchron-ized chamber cellos (where ostensibly they are the same original samples). One had a sheen, a more biting sound, and the other was smoother. Here we broach matters of EQ, the changes the developers may have made to the original material, plug-ins, etc., all compounding upon themselves. (Such things were not obvious, though, based on the mixing settings.)

Those differences, I decided, were to be celebrated as options. Many here have the chops to further homogenize them. It's not my skill set. 

But yes, regarding the length of the tail, the general room sound, and certainly the average loudness of the instrument, I very much want VI and Synchron to be as identical as possible for a convincing, unified sound. 

You make a good point differentiating Synchron from Synchron-ized, as with the latter you can indeed turn off the IR and route through MIR. Personally, I have automated the IR wet/dry within Synchron-ized sounds, and I adjust it per instrument with Logic's Smart Controls. If I did send Synchronized patches to MIR, immediately I'd gain more options. 

It's ironic: just this week I have matched and compared VSL's Synchronized sounds (with their built-in Synchron IR's) to my dry VI library going through MIR -- and then I compared those to Synchron native per-mike mixes. It's quite an education. One must be careful not to press too hard for identical sounds (which is tempting when you want the liberty of using both VI and Synchron / Synchronized in the same song -- such is the source of your hope and frustration). 

I may be able to clarify two other points you have raised. Describing Synchron native sounds as neither wet nor dry is not quite accurate. Yes, the Synchron native instruments were recorded on the Synchron Stage, but they were captured with multiple microphones simultaneously. These are found in the Mix tab of the Synchron player when a native Synchron patch is loaded. 

Survey the mikes. The close mic is more or less dry, but not completely so, the main microphone is wetter, but not awash with reverb, and so on. It's a completely different paradigm for mixing and positioning, separate from MIR, distinct from the old days of bus sends.  

And I had to laugh when I read, "...the 'natural volume' is useless as it makes everything 4x quieter than it already was." The first time I used natural volume, I thought it was a bug. Only later did I realize that it's an amazing resource *when it is used for the entire orchestra.* I came at it with faders at unity gain, virtually no headroom, and if any given instrument had "natural volume" checked, it would disappear from the orchestra. Gain structures are relative. 

"...it's a little confusing why VI have MIRx and Synchron ones don't."

Synchron products are recorded in the Synchron Stage. Synchron-ized products are samples initially recorded in the Silent Stage, then processed by special IR's to be placed in the Synchron stage. 

Why would MIRx put a Synchron / Synchron-ized library on the Synchron stage when VSL has already recorded or placed it there for you? Indeed, that is why it sounds so good out of the box.

This same question occurred to me when I first read, "It detects Strings Pro viola section as one viola, and puts it smack next to double basses."  If by "Strings Pro" you mean Synchron Strings Pro, why are you asking for MIR to place it automatically? It's already there. That's the essence of the product. Placement and reverb are adjusted in the Mix tab of the Synchron Player with four or more microphone outputs. Indeed, outputting a Synchron product through a MIR plugin could countermand the spatial qualities and freedoms that you bought in the library. 

I do empathize with your struggles though, not so much with MIR, but with the general aggravation of learning new software.  Programs have a way of making sense in retrospect, as galling as that thought is in the pique of our frustration. 

By the way, I didn't fully understand MIRx until recently. And I've owned MIR since it came out. Hang in there. 

In Synchron, select the performing dimension (the right-most slot -- the one with the patch loaded), then Edit Tab > Velocity Crossfade. "Global" means it will follow whatever the Perform setting has for crossfading. "On" will force cross-fading no matter what Perform has, and "Off" will disable cross-fading for that slot and that slot only, no matter the Perform setting. 

This same setting can be found in the Vienna Instruments. In Advanced View, select the cell slot,  then Edit Tab > Velocity XF (found above the envelope sliders). The same three options are presented. 

Thanks yet again. I thought I'd decoupled it, but your response prompted me to double-check. I get a full sample load now. 

Another question: I save a channel strip that's named "Flute" in the track header. But I save the channel strip .cst as "01 FL 12.78" for organizational purposes. If I load that .cst in a new song, the track header says "01 FL 12.78." I'd like it to read "Flute," just as I saved it. Any setting to make this happen? Or will it always default to the channel strip file's name?

Edit: I cross-posted at LPH, and there the moderator replied, "I believe that for both CSS and patches, what you name them is what populates the track header when you load them. No setting that I'm aware of to change that behavior."

For years I've worked with Logic and VEP templates. I've never used Channel Strip Settings as a save strategy. So this is an elementary question:

Can a Channel Strip Setting .cst file save instructions for loading the channels in a VEP instance with their samples? I'm observing that it loads the fx, the instrument (VEP) and other channel strip attributes for Logic. But in VEP, Logic only creates a correctly named but otherwise empty instance. 

If the correct instance is pre-loaded in VEP, the .cst finds it and connects. No problem. But can a .cst launch and load a VEP instance with its channels and samples all by itself?

As noted above, you’ll need a separate track and a different VI. The soprano sax matrix can be copied and pasted to the new VI. From there, you’d drag the new (but corresponding) alto articulations into each cell. 

If you’re trying to do this within one instrument / track, it won’t work. Per previous note: “ Important: only one matrix can play at a time per VI instrument. If I understand your question, you're asking if all four saxes can be assigned to one VI plug-in using four matrices. The short answer is no -- not if they are to play together. You can. of course, get a custom matrix and copy it to separate instruments. Then you would re-populate each cell with its specific saxophone.”

But I think you knew that. Strictly speaking, when correctly assembled, you absolutely can use the same Logic Articulation Set for both. Art ID’s don’t know what sound they’re triggering — only specific cells. Indeed, I have very extended Art ID’s for strings, and the violins, violas and cellos are identical — I just copied and pasted the Art set. Basses needed small modifications to accommodate the C1 to C2 playing range.

If and when the alto cells are updated and set to a new VI and track, and assuming that new VI has only the alto sax matrix, there is no reason the same Art set cannot be used. It cannot fetch the soprano sax when no soprano sax is on that track. So to answer your question, matrices are not tied to one another at all. 

To be clear: you are separating saxes per track, correct?  If you wanted to drive all four saxes in one track, you’d best be served by Vienna Pro Ensemble, where each sax could have its own channel and one track could drive it all. But in my opinion, scoring that way in Logic would condense everything to a single region, and handling CC’s, polyphony, per channel legato, etc., would be, well, inelegant. 

Congrats on your progress. 

Yes, a matrix can be saved that way, with the lower right save button. Once the instrument is assigned in Logic, it will be saved as well in the Logic file. As you parse out all saxophones, you could get one right, then in go Logic > Track > Other > New Track with Duplicate Settings, and drag the next saxophone's patches into their respective cells.

Be advised that, if the ranges of the actual instruments are too far apart, keyswitches have to be reassigned. For example, in strings, violins, violas and cellos are often keyswitched below the playing ranges, but contrabass keyswitches must be bumped above the playing range. I'm not sure if saxophones will require that adjustment. 

You had asked, "how do I specify the instrument in Logic so that all that works together?" That prompted my note on assigning an instrument. But if you have worked in Logic Score, and you have previously used Articulation Sets, you're well ahead there. Yes, it was the design of VI that confused the matter. 

Thank you for conferring on me both titles. May your saxes sing in harmony. 

There may be some basic oversights here. To correct them, allow me to risk telling you things you already know. Let's clarify some terms. 

"Articulation Set." This is purely a Logic term. Art Sets are created and edited in Logic alone. They don't exist in VI (or Synchron, for that matter). An Art Set in Logic is a list of ID's assigned to a keyswitch. Logic has no idea what sound it's selecting. It's just sending the keyswitches you tell it to send. 

"Populate a matrix."

Start with a completely empty VI plug-in on one track in Logic. On the right of the VI window, you see Preset / Matrix / Patch. Select Patch > Woodwind Patches > 70 Soprano Sax > 01 SHORT + LONG NOTES > 01 SX-So_staccato. Click-hold on it and drag it to the one and only cell in the middle of the screen that says A1.

Click-hold the lower right edge of that cell and extend it to the right to open up the next cell. It will say A2. Click-drag 11 SX_So_sus_Vib into A2. Now your matrix has a staccato and a sustained sound. 

Click-hold "None" on the X-Axis drop down menu and select Keyswitch. Now C1 will select the staccato, and C#1 will select the sustain. At this point, you would go into Logic and create a very straight-forward Articulation Set where ID 1 sends a C1 KS and ID 2 sends C#1. Create two notes in Logic Score and assign each an ID to verify playback. 

"Do I make a custom matrix in the VI plugin and save it for each one?" Important: only one matrix can play at a time per VI instrument. If I understand your question, you're asking if all four saxes can be assigned to one VI plug-in using four matrices. The short answer is no -- not if they are to play together. You can. of course, get a custom matrix and copy it to separate instruments. Then you would re-populate each cell with its specific saxophone. 

You would best assign each sax to its own track in Logic. This is covered in any ground-level tutorial on Logic's Main Window. You need a separate VI plug-in per track. 

Instead of the VI manual, have you watched VSL's videos? Consider Vienna Instruments Video Tutorials > Overview.

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Software/Vienna_Instruments#!Video_Demos

" I was assuming that if I find a "staccato" articulation in a matrix, the combination of B0-C1-C2 would be the same articulation for staccato in any matrix."

Not so, indeed. Each matrix is a world unto itself. The commonalities you found verge on coincidental. This is why I previously cautioned against seeing matrices as an articulation list. Some users parse the entire orchestra by matrices in one plug in. C1 equals flute fluttertongue in the first matrix -- the next C1, a col legno viola.  

I might encourage you to set aside presets in VI as you learn. Synchron out of the box does its best to coordinate common articulations between instruments. VI presets are variegated. Synchron's interface is more visually intuitive; VI is a bit obscure. ( Ironically, they do mostly the same thing.)

"When I put them into an articulation map in Logic, they didn't work the way that they did in the plugin. I think that I am still missing something."

You're not alone. I've been doing this for a while, and still -- even in my prep to respond to your post -- I found that my test Art Sets weren't working. It's three-dimensional chess. And yet, it's a dumb function -- that is, neither Logic nor VI knows what's in B0 / C1 / C2 -- it's just a location. Logic has its bugs, of course, but the Art ID is straight-forward data input. 

"...no other dimension to be added." Might you consider creating your own matrix and the associated Art Set from scratch? Forego the presets for now and make your own simple layout, just as a proof of concept? 

Don't worry. My patience is intact. I know you're going to solve this. To repeat: each matrix is its own universe, and designing a custom matrix limited to one axis -- and then writing the simplest of Art ID's for that specific matrix -- might be highly instructive. One brick (or cell) at a time. 

" Your description seems to be based on what you see in the VI player. "

Yes. It was an example only, a hypothetical matrix on the simplest level requiring three keyswtiches. 

"...I see what is clearly a list of articulation on the left...."

Not quite. It's a list of matrices. It's not necessarily choosing articulations. The selected matrix is in the middle, as you note, and the controllers that choose the performing cell within the matrix are on the right. 

"...along the y-axis that appear to be mod-wheel settings, which are useless to me." 

Here's an important distinction: the X and Y axis can be controlled by a lot of things. One of them is the mod wheel. This allows real-time (or recorded MIDI) to shape the performance on the fly. But you're looking for keyswitches, so when you see CC1, it's confusing you.  

As a tutorial, do this: select the preset 73 Baritone Sax > SX-BR VSL Preset Level 2 ext.

Select the first matrix: C7 01 SX-Br Perf-Universal. You'll see a matrix with nine cells (3 x 3).

So where are the cell keyswitches you seek? There aren't any. ( Ignore AB-Switch for now.) That's because this matrix behaves according to the deft performance of the speed of your playing (X-Axis) and the movement of the mod wheel (Y-Axis). Stated simply, it's not designed to trigger sounds they way you want to trigger sounds. Note as well the shaded keyboard at the bottom -- just C7 to F7, which are matrix selections.

Now -- only as a tutorial -- click-hold the "Speed" drop-down in the X-Axis. Select Keyswitch. Now the X-Axis responds to your keyboard's C1 / C#1 / D1, and those keyswtches change the articulation. You can do the same thing with the Y-Axis, which will respond to C2 / C#2 / D2. See the keyboard again. Your new cell keyswitches are in blue and green.

"I just want to do something simple."

Indeed. Try this: from an empty VI, load matrix > Level 1 > L1 SX-Br Articulation Combi(nation). That's a 6 x 2 matrix. You could design an Articulation Set in Logic from C6 to F6 to get the general idea. ( There's only one matrix, so that doesn't need a keyawitch. And play with the mod wheel as a reminder that a lot of things can change the sound.)

Nothing is as complicated as it appears when we don't understand it. As an application programmer, you're going to breeze through this once things start clicking. 

Firstly, you didn't make a mistake with this purchase. There are thousands of VI users on Logic driving articulations with Articulation Maps, so be of good cheer. 

A common arrangement of a VI matrices involves three key switches. Happily, Logic allows each articulation map to send three keyswitches per articulation.

You may know this already, but to be safe: go to the Articulation Map editor in Logic, create an articulation and select Output. From there, at the left bottom of the screen, check "Activate Multiple Outputs." Now you can assign three keyswitches to one Art Map. In the following example, they would all be set to "Note On."

An example: you have two matrices selected by keyswitches -- A0 and B0.

Each Matrix has four squares: two on top of two. That's four cells:

C1/C2 top left

C#1/C2 top right

C1/C#2 bottom left

C#1/C#2 bottom right

So, to access any cell, you'd need the matrix keyswitch ( A0 or B0 ) and any of the four combinations listed above. To play the bottom right cell of the second matrix, the Art Map would send B0 / C#1 / C#2.

Note that VI allows this kind of complexity, but it does not require it. A channel set with nothing more than one matrix and one row of cells ( just an X-axis, no y-axis ) needs nothing more than one keyswitch on the correct MIDI channel. 

Consider X-DAW if you want to take Articulation Maps even deeper. There *is* a learning curve., but for those who go deep into MIDI orchestration, it's potent. 

You're no one's crazy uncle. Because you discussed this on the forum, and because VSL replied, I am better informed. I now realize that signing up for this coverage takes a little calendar vigilance on the buyer's part. So thanks for posting. 

Thanks for the confirmation, Macker. Yes, restricting the range of the Flautando is the better solution, as it preserves the F7/G7 template found elsewhere. 

01 1st Violins-14 Pro XF sus

C#1 Long Notes > F2 XFades > B2 Flautando X pp > Flautando  : the Flautando patch is mapped up to G7, causing it to sound when the Release key switches for pianissimo F7/G7 are chosen (when the crossfade using CC 20 is low enough to allow the Flautando to be heard). 

Wow. VSL is relentless. Congratulations.

A question of size: my Synchron Standard Strings I is 291.15 GB (VSL lists it at 255.7 GB). Synchron Strings Pro is reported at 122.7 GB. What accounts for the difference? 

Also, am I correct that Synchron Strings I's Cantabile and Lyrical still stand apart from Synchron Strings Pro, or do they appear under a different heading in this new library?

I'll say it again: this is amazing.  

Could such a bus-powered Thunderbolt 3 device drive VEP for sequenced playback? 

https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/envoy-express/thunderbolt-3

Running Logic 10.4.8 running Catalina 10.15.5, I recently found in the Vienna Ensemble Server window the option "Reconnect All." I had not been aware of it, and I assumed that it would reconnect all VEP instances in one go -- the same way we can decouple everything with the red button "Decouple All Plugins."

But "Reconnect All" didn't seem to do anything. Please tell me what it should do, and if any issues have been reported about it. Thank you. 

Paul, why was this released as a Big Bang product? Isn't its design and execution more akin to the Synchron native libraries?  I intend to use it as an adjunct to Synchron-ized Woodwinds, and I'm sure that will work. But the naming convention made me curious. (I wondered the same thing about Kopernikus and Jupiter, though I understand that their epic tone fits with Big Bang.)

By the way, in the "Sample Content" tab of Orion, there is no mention of legatos. It's referenced only in the Product Info page. 

That’s a good answer. I did not know about re-rendering.

Instead of referring to a control surface, I should have said Logic’s Smart Controls, where, if it was assignable, the width could be adjusted right in the Main screen, side by side with other significant parameters like wet / dry. I certainly didn’t want to automate Width as the playhead was running. 

Adjusting such things in the MIR interface is only problematic when numerous channels and several instances are presented to the user in a final balancing pass. 

Thanks for considering it. Perhaps this and positioning could be made available by remote with a caution noted in the manual that it is not intended for real-time playback. 

I've been hoping to assign the MIR parameter "Width" to a control surface (eMagic Logic Control in this case). This would help to make it immediately accessible at any time for mixing. But the parameter is not assignable as far as I can see. It will not be learned in Automation Mapping. 

Is this intentional? Might we see it in a later version?  

I second that. In fact, VSL in general has offered the best support experience I've ever had. 

I think it was Andreas who alerted me to the fact that my Vienna Keys were over ten years old, hence the loading issues.  Okay... that may have been one of his easier diagnostics.  

. 

There may be an error in the preset:

Preset > SYNCHRON-ized Collections > 01 Solo Violin 1 > 03 and 04 Violin 1 full and full VelXF MOD:

Multi shorts > No bow chang. > Fast > Regular | Dynamic (Cresecendo / Diminuendo)

In the factory preset, these are assigned to portato fast repetitions. I think the VI-perf-rep_bow-fa / cre5_bow-fa and dim5 bow-fa are intended to be here. 

Rest assured on two levels. 

1. Many of us here have compendious libraries of both VSL approaches, and we mix and match all day long. 

2. Synchron-ized instruments have the Synchron stage reverb added after the fact. They can be heard dry when the Synchron IR and the convolution reverb are removed, which the user is free to do. 

The same reverb effect can be achieved with a dry Vienna Instruments library running MIR with the Synchron IR. 

The VI interface is utilitarian blue. The Synchron interface is a happy rainbow. You can dive more deeply and modify more precisely with VI, but Synchron can be customized -- perhaps more than people realize (or need to pursue).

Libraries designated "Synchron" without the "-ized" were actually recorded in the stage with multiple microphones. They cannot be rendered without room entirely, but as you mix the mics, they can be reasonably dry, extremely wet, whatever you want. 

For desert-like aridity, with water to follow, either Vienna Instruments or Synchon-ized libraries with user-removable reverb is what you seek. 

At times when I attempt to click a VESP file twice to rename the file on Mac OS, I mis-click and launch the file by accident. I've got some large templates, and they take a while to load.

Is there a way to stop a file from loading after it's already started, some kind of escape key?