Wow, that's what I call fast response - thanks

Any chance the update will also include a window resize feature like the EXS24 in Logic. Just asking.

Maybe you don't understand the concept here. It is not a contest who builds the better UI. I'm not in the business of creating an app and criticizing someone others app instead of improving my own. 

I'm in the business of "using" the app, paying for it and therefore have the right (the company provides a forum for that) to point out some of its shortcoming along with all the praises.

I'm not a native English speaker so I looked up the exact meaning of the word "quibble":  raise objections about a trivial matter

I was one of those who raised objections about the look of the UI, but "trivial matter" I don't think so. The matter is not so much the layout of the UI which I really like, but the overall look (contrast, depth, readability, etc...).

Just because you don't have a problem with it (maybe you don't work with a 4 monitor setup, maybe you work with a bigger overall resolution, maybe you don't work 14+ hours on your machine or maybe you have sharp eyes) doesn't mean that you should dismiss constructive criticism and suggestions from other users. It's not that a user is trashing the product because it turns out to have a blue look and feel instead of his/her favorite color green.

I think you get the point.

Although VSL dropped the ball big time with the new Browser in VI Pro (http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/26192.aspx), the user interface is otherwise a joy to work with.

In terms of UI, the color coded keyboard is my favourite so far. It is amazing what an impact this little improvement has in terms of visual feedback. No fingering around or guessing/remembering where the key switches are. A big Thank you for that.

The general layout of the Basic and Advanced view feels pretty good so far. It so much faster to work with with less switching around to see the information you are looking for.

One suggestions:

In basic and advanced View, the name of the current selected/playin Patch should be much more bold and stick out. When you play around with a lot of switching going on, this is the visual feedback you need that corresponds with what you hear at that moment.

OK, I worked a little bit more today with the browser and I have to say: This looks bad!

It seems that you guys went a step back in computer evolution. I thought the whole "Save" and "Load" files has been figured out, then why are you trying to reinvent the wheel by coming up with a "square" shape?

1) Force the user to place user files in one pre-defined location. This is so wrong for so many reasons. Permission issues, sorry I missed that flood of complaints. These are not Library files that belong in a specific location, demanded/suggested by the OS. These are user files and and the user has to have the choice to put them where ever he wants. Locally, second drive, external drive, network drive. THink one step further about backups. The user plans his backup/archive scheme with the smart location of various files. If the user doesn't have the choice to organize his files in a compact way, this makes the backup procedure more complex in order to make sure to look in yet another location for valuable data.

2) No nested folders? What's up with that?

3) When you want to save a file into an existing folder, you have to type its name in the first field. One step away from the command line interface.

4) You can expand only one (!!!) folder at a time in the directory tree?

5) OSX uses triangles, WIndow uses dotted lines to display exended directories. Why do you have to come up with a new way with this vertical lines?

6) If you create Folders or move Preset Files in the "VSL Custom Data" directory directly in the Finder, then you won't see them in the Plugin browser until you do a save. Then the browser data will be refreshed.

I'm really baffled how this crippled browser interface made it to the final version or even passed the beta testers. No complains from the users, strange? This is a big step backwards from the previous version and I don't care if the new browser has a Search feature. 

Any chance that the VSL team can address these issues any time soon or explain what the reasong was behind such a major step back?

It looks like the VI Pro doesn't display the Custom Folder with the custom Preset and Matrix files that were created in the original VI. I can't find anything in the manual or in the videos that explains the custom file handling. Did I overlooked it?

Here is what I observe:

• The save command will not open a standard File Selector Dialog window!
• You can't select your own location for the Custom files. This was possible in VI through the Directory Manager app.
• A new custom Preset and Matrix is saved in the "user/Shared Folder/VSL Custom Data/" directory
• Nested Folder will not be displayed. Major limitation.
• Custom files in VI Pro have a new extension (vipreset" and "vimatrix") instead of the old extension fxp (no mention of that significant change anywhere?)
• VI Pro can't open original VI custom files. This would be a major problem !!!

This is the first major roadblock I' hitting so far in VI Pro after the first day of positive experience.

I posted a separate list with all the features/improvements that I really liked. Here is the list of what I think should be worked on for the next update:

1) GUI

Honestly, I was a little bit disappointed by the look. It has a toy like "Fisher Prize" feel, looks flat with not much contrast and depth and is a little bit hard to read. It could be a VSL design decision to go "simple" but it comes across as the first programming job of a freeware app where the developer uses only the basic system graphics elements becasue he doesn't have the budget to hire a designer to create stunning graphics. 

2) Delete - Dialog Box

This is a in my opinion a major oversight that I listed already in the original VI. Every delete or clear action should have an alert box popping up "Are You Sure?" It is too easy, especially with everything getting so small, to click the trash icon by accident and poof, the Matrix is gone. I don't think this is a tricky programming tasks and should be just part of standard procedure.

3) Current Preset Name Display

This is another issue I posted back in VI. When you load a preset, the plugin window doesn't indicate the name of the loaded preset. Again this should be standard file handling procedure. A preset is like a document. When you open it up, the window header should display the name of the file so if you switch between multiple open files, you know which one you're working on. In addition, at least in OSX, the red circle in the left upper corner of a document window indicates if that file has been edited since it was opened (red circle with a dot) or if it unaltered (red circle without dot). 

4) Middle C standard

A wise man once said: "The good thing about a standard is that there are so many of them". This is kind of true for the naming of the "Middle C". There is the Roland (c4) and the Yamaha (c3) standard. My suggestion (again still back in VI) was to let the user choose in an option settings,

5) Window resize

A plugin window resize feature would be highly appreciated., like Logic's EXS24 where you just drag the window open to overcome the poor readability all those mini fonts.

6) "About Software" Bug

If you select  the "About software" from the Version popup menu in the right upper corner, the window will change to a wild colorful roller coaster animation. It looks kind of cool but I don't think it was the intention

7) File Browser / Custom Presets

This is a topic where I have problems/questions about it, so I start a separate post for that

http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/p/26192/172939.aspx#172939

First of of all a big Thank You to the VSL team for that feature packed release. I got the email notification yesterday and bought it right away. I was a bit surprised by the $164 price tag, was expecting more of a $49 or maybe $99 upgrade.

I want to split my post into two, this one with a list of all the much appreciated improvements and new features and I will also start a second post with a wish list of all the features that didn't make it into this release or general improvement suggestions

OK, here is my list of improvements/features that I appreciate the most

• * No more separate Plugin WIndow (Hallelujah)
• * launches in 5-10s instead of 3-5 min

• * Keyboard with colored key switching indicators
• * Dragging Matrix in the Matrix List
• * Copy-Paste options in various places
• * Bigger Window
• * Humanizer
• * Stretching

Again thank you very much (this should prove the point to Paul and Herb hat I'm also capable of posting positive comments and spread the love)

Chuck,

I can confirm  your second observation. I also use the MacPro, but the memory behavior is not related to the hardware and more to the way how OSX handles the RAM. 

Here is a link to Apple's developer's site that explains "Memory Management in Mac OS X". Trust me, I don't understand a lot of that stuff either because it is a little hardcore but you might get somewhat of an idea what is going on, plus some useful terminology. :

http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Performance/Conceptual/ManagingMemory/Articles/AboutMemory.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20001880-BCICIHAB

The phenomena you are looking for is the "Inactive Memory" or "Inactive List". This is a great concept but it bites you in the but with the new 64bit apps. Every time you close an app that used up memory or in our case we load/unload some plugin+samples, OSX doesn't release the memory completely. It tries to help and keep some data in RAM just in case you reload the app. In that case OSX knows it has that data still in RAM and zzing, the app is up and running in no time.

This was not a big problem with 32bit Logic because it had its own 4GB memory ceiling. But now with the 64bit version you keep on loading samples and they stay in RAM, marked as "inactive". You see in Activity Monitor that your free memory shrinks more and more and after a while you see that your 16GB or more of RAM is used up even if you didn't kept the last 10 presets, you overwrote them. However, OSX kept them in RAM for your convenience.

This is basically not that bad because if OSX needs more RAM, it releases some of the inactive RAM for the new one. However, I noticed that you are entering another danger zone - SWAP SPACE. This is the arch enemy of all audio apps. It means that OSX sees that the physical RM is all used up and it starts to outsource some data from fast RAM to the slow Hard Drive. The result, possible clicking sounds. This is the main reason to always have an eye on the Activity Monitor, or have Menu Meter running, to make sure that "page outs" always reads 0.

Now this is a perfect example where I run against  a wall regarding VSL's infamous authentication procedure. I try to explain people that a "perfect world" situation has nothing to do with our real life 16h/day real world situation using Logic, Vienna AND other plugins. I hear that people can live with a daily 3-5 minutes authentication process. But this is one example where you might want to restart your computer, tabula rasa for the RAM. Now the 3-5 minutes can add up and you can start to calculate the time=$$$ on lost productivity.

More on that related topic under:

http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/25361.aspx

Maybe there is a little UNIX app that flushes the inactive RAM, I haven't seen any, but that would definitely help

This response is a little tricky because I have to enter the slippery slop of PC vs Mac. Although I used PCs for many years with Gigastudio, I prefer the Mac. The Mac community is used to get treated as a second class citizen by developers for decades although things have changed a bit lately. Developers just plain ignored the Mac and just released Windows versions or the Mac versions was released much later after it was ported over (Skype, Netflix, Quicken, etc).

I understand that the developers have it not easy to deal with Apple and their policies and they have my sympathy, But having said, I also think that the developer should not use that as an excuse to release a less than optimal product. The user is interested in the promise of the product and this is the bases for his decision to spend his money on that. If it is not possible to deliver a true cross platform product then the developer should advertise it: "available for Windows and also for Mac in a stripped down less functional version". I didn't see a footnote at VSL that says "authentication on a Mac may take up to 5 times longer than on a PC" or "beware that the Mac version of the VI plugin has to violate basic OSX user interface guidelines in order to make it somehow functional". No, of course you don't see that. 

This is what I'm talking about with "second class citizens". We are used to pick up the crumbs from the code floor and it is expected to be ok with it. And yes, you might say, why not coming over your greener side of the grass. But no thanks, I made my computer platform decision based on my personal experience the same way millions of users made their choice to use PC based on their personal experience. That is not the issue. I'm aware of the restrictions I might have based my decision to use Macs. 

So this has nothing to do with " holding VSL responsible for the inflexibility of Apple's OS".  The problem is when VSL releases a Mac versions and they are not upfront with possible limitations or restrictions  compared to the Windows version. I don't want to bring that up all the time but how come that Spectrasonics, NI, FXpander seemed to mange the "inflexibility". Could it be that at the end it is the "inflexibility" of VSL's product?

Second topic "Copy Protection"

I don't know where to start. I don't even pretend to have an answer, just a few points I thought to be valid.

• There is no such thing as 100% copy protection
• Stop chasing ghosts
• History shows that the most locked down software disappear sooner or later
• Kids who use a pirated Photoshop copy wouldn't by it in the first place if it was completely locked because they don't have the money in the first place. (The billions of  $$$  damage of potential sales is questionable)
• At the end, copy protection is always a compromise between the transparency for the user and the peace of mind for the creator
• It seems that other software companies have managed to survive even they don't use the draconian protection practice that VLS imposes on their customers.

Conclusion:

I noticed quite often that companies tend to be self centered because that they can't imagine that users use other products/plugins besides their own. But this is not the reality. So just using VSL with that long authentication process seems ok for many users, but would it still be ok if every plugin/software on their computer uses the same protection scheme. If a user would spend 7 hour out of their 8 hour work day sitting around and waiting for authentication approval over and over again would it still be ok and tolerable?

Paul,

thanks for your response, I really appreciate it. 

I'm sorry to give you the impression that I'm not positive enough. I'm a member on the forum since 2003, we bought the VSL Library (The Cube) when it first came out for the Gigastudio, we later bought the upgrade for the EXS24 version and then bought the Cube again for the VI. I think it is an amazing product and that is one of the reasons I use it and love it for so long. I consider the contribution of VSL a milestone in Sample history that really pushed the industry forward on so many levels, I really mean that. But with every greatness in technology there are compromises forced by the current limitations of technology. If technology moves forward so does the products that profits from them, simple evolution, common fact.

Because I like the VSL product so much, I want it to be even better, that's why I'm so passionate about it. Sorry if it comes across as "negative bitching around". I get that on other forums too, but that is who I am. In my job people expect me to deliver the best and I cannot afford to settle for less than giving the best. What surprises me and also saddens in some way is the mentality of so many users who are just "ok with it", "not a big deal", "it is good enough". 

Of course the users have to make sure that the company can survive financially by buying their product and accept their means of protecting it. But the users have also a big role in pushing the company to deliver excellence and pointing out areas that needs improvement in order to survive. If competitor B and C leapfrogs the company that I bought into and gets out of business, that is also not in the customers interest.

I understand and respect that VSL has a priority of improvements that they decide in what areas a product gets evolved. Too bad the authentication process seems to be at the bottom of that list. Too many users seem to be OK with the current situation and consider that "a small price to pay for the continuing existence of VSL" (quote from DG). I myself consider it a huge workflow killer but obviously I'm in the minority.

At least I'm happy that the other gripe I have with VI, the OSX interface integration gets fixed in the VI PRO version. If you still need a beta tester that tells you his honest opinion without holding back, let me know :-)

In the meantime I' stop complaining about the authentication process and sit back and patiently wait until VSL reconsider their position, either due to more user complaints or pressure form competing companies that manage to protect their product without putting the burden on their customers.

Good one, "windows fogged up" ... PC ...

But seriously, it seems that there is some confusion here:

• I use a Mac
• I use Logic Pro
• I don't use VE
• I use VI like any other plugin (Omnisphere, Play, Zebra, etc)

We seemed to establish already that ...

• authorization on VI and VE is different
• authorization on a Mac and PC is different.

So if you are on a PC or using mainly VE then you don't have to deal with the long authorization process. Again this is not a call for help in trouble shooting. This post was intended to tell VSL that 5 minutes for a plugin authentication every time you start/restart your machine is outrages and gather more support from other Mac/Logic/VI users that are also outraged to show VSL this is unacceptable.

Obviously most VSL users are on a PC or are on a Mac and don't care much about that, so my mission has failed.

PS:

Using Logic in 64bit and having 16GB of RAM seems plenty. But here is the catch where you have to restart from time to time during the day. For example if you are using Omnisphere, Trilian or Play plugins in a Project and browse through lots of sounds (loading one preset after another while overwriting the previous one), then you will see that your 16GB of RAM gets eaten up pretty fast and you reach the 0 bytes physical RAM situation moving into swap space territory. Every time you overwrite a previous preset, OSX doesn't clean out that memory space but keeps some as inactive memory. So once your samples get paged out into swap space memory addressing, performance starts to degrade and it is time for tabula rasa and reboot the machine. 

Although 32bit apps imposed the infamous 4GB memory limitation, but at least it also kept you from entering the swap space. This is a little detail that was hidden in the fine print when they sold us the holy land of 64bit apps.

Again this is  on a Mac and I don't have any idea if you are dealing with the same RAM fragmentation and swap space issues on a PC.

Thanks for your insight in your workflow and the PC side of life. But you are missing the point. There are two things here:

• A) time to open the plugin
• B) time to load the preset/samples

You are aware of that, right? I'm not talking about loading the preset/sample, of course that takes time if you load thousands of samples and your instrument is 1GB big. If I wanted to speed that up I would stuck 4 SSDs in my MacPro in a RAID0 configuration. All I'm talking about is to just open the freakin' plugin that usually takes from instantly (most of Logic's plugin) to a couple of seconds (Omnisphere, Play, etc). Which of your plugin on your PC takes 1 minute to open, I don't know any on my Mac.

I'm a a huge proponent of workflow that's why I'm so bitchy about the two issues with VI that stop my workflow cold dead, the VI authentication and the implementation of the VI interface (Mac only). What you are talking about has nothing to do with workFLOW, they are a "workAROUND" for a problem. You are not optimizing your workflow, you are minimizing the damage to your workflow.

Of course, loading gigabytes of samples into your RAM takes time and you start that and then doing something. There is no way around that. When you put on the kettle to boil water for the tea, you don't stand there, staring at the stove and watch the water get hot. Of course you get your other stuff in the kitchen ready for the breakfast.

But what would you say if you buy yourself a Ferrari with a keyless entry like many cars have nowadays. The only problem is that the Ferrari company is concerned about auto theft so they came up with a brilliant idea. Ever time you want to get into your car, the car key sends a signal to some third party that does a background check to see if you are the rightful owner of that fine piece of automotive. Great idea, not a single Ferrari theft since then. However imagine you pick up that hot girl at the club, get to the car, beep-beep, now you stand around with her for 5 minutes until the background check has cleared. Of course you can change your "workflow" and while the girl is waiting you can polish the hood, clean the mirrors, etc...

Now replace the Ferrari with VSL and the hot chick with the producer sitting in your studio who says "oh, I understand you have to load the samples" and you say "no, nothing is loading yet for the next 5 minutes"

Do you understand what I mean? I don't have an issue as you suspect in form of getting it fixed with troubleshooting, I have an issue with the form of authentication that is implemented by VSL. 

Based on those official comments in this post about that I issue I can now for sure see the official VSL policy:

NOTHING WILL CHANGE WITH THE CURRENT AUTHENTICATION PROCESS

All the wording I see here is just "some minutes of licensing scanning". It is sad that you don't see the big picture in a real world situation where "some minutes' turn into "some hours". Maybe more publications that review VSL products should keep an eye on that little  detail that sets VSL apart from their competitors. Why would I add another VSL product (Choir, Imperial, etc) to my library when I know that the "some minutes" turn into "some MORE minutes" -> "some MORE hours of lost productivity".

Sorry, but if you guys refuse to correct that position of "punishing your loyal customer" then I have to refuse to purchase any more of your products and hope that other users do the same.

As a professional I AM p*ssed-off that VSL is the only company that punishes their loyal customer with this authentication procedure where any other company next door found a more or less balanced way of a copy protection scheme that protects their product without assuming that their customers turned into a thief since the last boot up.

Exactly what I'm talking about. 

Every company has to choose some sort of mechanism that provides a balance between most locked down vs most transparent. VSL chose a system that favors their company (most locked down) and penalizes their users (least transparent): They assume that their customer is a thief who has  to prove constantly that he is not.

"... Yes you just proved that you purchased the Library for 10k but now you restarted your computer which is suspicious. You have to prove again that you didn't move over to the dark side. And don't forget tomorrow morning when you restart your machine we have to check all over again that you are who you pretend to be...."

Do you guys understand the ridiculousness of that paranoid scheme?

Your quote is really frightening me!

I'm not sure at what position you are working at VSL but to be not aware of the long verification explains why all the complaints of VSL users are falling on deaf ears. Here is what you should do:

1a) Install Logic on the fastest MacPro with the latest OS

1b) Install a couple of plugins: Kontakt, Play, Omnisphere, Trilian, etc

1c) Install the complete Cube collection of VSL

2) Now load any of the third party plugin in Logic  (just the plugin no sounds), they will open in seconds

3) Now load the Vienna Instrument plugin in Login, it will take a few minutes !!! Remember just the launch of the player, not a single sample has been loaded.

Now you are telling me that you or VSL is not aware of that problem? I'm not talking about a problem with eLicense itself which has plenty. I have other plugins that use the eLicense and they don't need minutes to load. The only finger pointing towards eLicence is in place for what happens when the verification process get stuck. No feedback or error message popping up in the foreground to alert you. Just freezing in background and wasting more of the valuable production time.

It seems that VSL made a decision to use the verification process not only for the VI plugin but check the library itself. It almost seems that VSL wants to verify every freakin' sample after every restart to make sure that a customer who paid +10K didn't turn into a thief the last few hours. 

This is what's wrong with the VSL authentication and I really really hope they get rid of that practice with the PRO version. I understand that developers have to deal with piracy one way or the other but it has been proven that most of the time the honest user get punished where the pirates find their way regardless of any clever mechanism. I'm ok as a user to deal with some inconvenience (dongle, authentication, challenge-response, etc) to make sure that the company and their product can survive, but what VSL has implemented here is plain outrages and even more outrages that they didn't bother to fix it for so many years.

 Maybe on the PC side, at least XP, it is a less of an issue as DG pointed out and the complaints are not so loud but  even 1 minutes to open a plugin is still too much.

Now that VSL solves the interface problem in Logic with the VI Pro version how about the other VI debacle that affects everybody, not only the Logic users... The loooooong eLicense verification. Will that be solved in the PRO version too?

VSL names this version PRO so maybe they can start treating their loyal customers as professionals and not as potential thieves that have to endure that ridiculous verification process day after day after day (and sometimes multiple times during a day depending on how often you restart your machine). Does anybody else in the business forces this nightmare on their customers. Why would a company punish their customer the more they buy their product, this is beyond me. 

PLEASE take care of that situation once and for all. Does VSL know how many hours of lost productivity and lost money this kind of copy protection nonsense cost all of their customers combined. I'm not suggesting to jump ship to iLok, but at least it works in the background as do other products that uses the eLicense protection.

Maybe a few more question the VSL team can answer regarding the VI PRO:

1) After loading a Preset into the current VI, The Preset name isn't displayed anywhere. Is that oversight been taking care of? Maybe with an indication if the loaded Preset has been modified

2) Right now the Performance Parameter is stored with the Preset and not with the individual Matrices. This limitation was often criticized by the users. Will that change in the Pro version?

3) Hopefully the new interface straightens out some terminology inconstancies regarding Patch, Cell and Slots. Right now the "Edit Cell" should be labeled "Edit Patch"

4) With all those extra "overkill" features will there be finally a Preference page where I can change the "Middle C" reference from Roland-c4 to Yamaha-c3?

Whoa, that is the best news, thanks

Paul says on a different post about that extras server window: "...the whole system of our software is based on a server based concept - there needs to be an application that connects to this server, at least as long as this technology is the backbone."

Does that mean that the PRO version doesn't rely on the server anymore and uses the RAM space of the host?

Thanks for the link.

I'm not sure but I get the feeling that some of the new features are going into "overkill" territory. 

The feature I like the most is the colored keyboard (high on my feature wish list since the beginning)

No word on 64bit, I guess it is standard now, not worth to mention

No word on the topic vibrato however, especially for woodwinds

My biggest concern: User interface in Logic!

I really hope (and I can't imagine that they wouldn't ) that they finally get rid of that awful interface debacle in Logic. Having that extra VI window that violates simple OSX interface rules and kills any workflow is the biggest drawback for VSL in Logic (besides the pathetic eLicense procedure), at least from my point of view. So I assume the good news is that they could finally fix that, the bad news is that we have to pay for it. The "moderate" price tag could be $20-$50 ior $100-$400 when think in VSL numbers. We will see.

I hope VSL doens't use the Apple calender interpretation where a summer release date means (LastDayOf)Summer, therefor end of September.

I see in various posts the mention of the "Vienna Instrument Pro" but cannot find any official announcement or hint from VSL. Where can I find that? Any details?

I asked Paul Steinbauer this week after a VSL presentation in Los Angeles about the 64bit version of Vienna Instruments for Logic 9.1 and said "... in a few days"

If it is that close, how about some official announcement.

There is a difference between a broken device and a device that doesn't meet specific requirements for proper operation.

True, I could have a broken USB hub or port on my system, even a "half broken" device with intermittent problems. Strange thing is, that this device seems to be broken only under the operation with VI using the eLicense dongle. And even stranger, a fair amount of other user seem to have the same "broken" device judging by the posts on this forum. If that is true then I admit VSL cannot do anything about it. - Never mind.

However, if this whole scenario is based on system requirements, too much peak current during the authorization or whatever (hey, I'm not an electric engineer either), then the ball is definitely in the VSL corner to look into that.

If VSL thinks that there might be an issue and not just a bunch of whiny Mac users with broken USB connections then maybe VSL could use their next mailing list not just to announce more shiny new products (that also use the eLicense key, urggh) but attach a brief survey for the user with that USB problem to list their hardware/software setup and specify what USB and in what slot they are using, etc. Maybe you would find out some correlation, maybe 80% use the same brand of USB hub. Then the next VI update has a note in the System Requirements, warning users of the use of that specific USB hub, or use the eLicense key only on the front USB slot only Monday-Fridays, weekends is ok for use in either slots - you never know.

I'm not trying to be a pain in the a**, just want that problem to be solved and I would guess a few other users would too.

Thanks

Thanks for all the useful tips. However, I still believe it is the vendor's responsibility at some point to step up and acknowledge the problem. There are too many reports of the same problem although just a minority in the whole picture. Nevertheless, if customers spend that much money on a product then there is some kind of obligation from the vendor.

In an ideal world you might get a stable situation if you plug the one dongle in the front and yes there are issues with the USB ports on Macs. However more and more user have to use multiple dongles Again it is the vendors responsibility to find out specific hardware limitations, either before they release a product or after reports come in from the user. There is a thing called "System Requirement". If the excessive VSL authentication process sucks up more than 500mA of current through the USB port and causes the crash then maybe a note in the System Requirement is needed. "VSL authentication requires USB port to be hooked up to a nuclear power plant".

If VSL continues to ignore to investigate/fix the problems then I may return the favor and ignore VSL in my next purchase decision. A previous post made it pretty clear. If someone want to spend thousands of dollars on a product and reads about those unresolved problems then he may look somewhere else. Simple as that.

I'm using Logic 9 on an 8-core MacPro. Occasional VSL verification error and the persistent white box happens in Snow Leopard as it did in  Leopard.

I forgot to mention in the previous post. I don't think the host has anything to do with it. After a while I got sick and tired of those awful long (first) Logic projects boot, that have VI in it, just to find out that the eLincense crapped out again. So before I fired up Logic, I launched the VI standalone app just to go through the eLicense verification. And only if that came up properly (which didn't all the time), then I started Logic.

There is no apparent reason why the verification process failed. It boots up every day for a couple of weeks and then the next day trouble again, where nothing has changed, Maybe solar flares, position of the moon, jet streams - who knows.

Maybe people haven't fully realized that the problem is not Syncrosoft or VSL, it is the combination of both that causes problems. Judging by the numbers of posts on this forum, I think VSL cannot deny that there is a problem, even if it is a small group (Mac). It is their job to find out what combination of hardware or other factors causes problems with their $10k+ product.

First of all, I don't have much confidence in the Syncrosoft product based on problems in the past vs zero problems with the iLok. Having it run by Steinberg now doesn't make that better, again based on my personal experience with Steinberg and their track record for Apple products (anybody remembers Cubase 1 for OSX, a pathetic attempt to port the PC version over to Mac). At least they are updating and improving their eLicencing.

But honestly I don't have any issues with any other the licenses on the Syncrosoft key, once authorized they are working and you don't even noticed that it is there, just like the iLok. But now put the VSL products in the picture - there you have the problems.

Any product you buy and install, you go through an authorization process of some kind, to prove that you purchased the product and you are the legitimate owner. Some authorization processes are better than others, meaning less hustle for the consumer to jump through all kinds of hoops. But I understand that the developers have to protect their investment, ok fine. But what VSL is doing is taking it too far. It re-checks the product every time lit aunches after a re-boot, resulting in this down-time until the process is finished. Are there any other companies that are that paranoid? VSL requires that you prove that you are not a thief after each reboot of the machine. "Yes, I told you already two hours ago that I'm authorized to use that &^%&^% piccolo flute sample, now get out of the way and let me use the stuff what I paid you $10k+ for." Unfreakingbelievable.

And please I don't want to hear any excuses or workarounds. Yes, in a perfect world, you would only start the computer once in the morning, and yes I could use the time to get a coffee. And yes, I could come up with a solution to only check the instruments that I use to cut down the authorization time. Fact is, this is not an open source project, this is a very expensive product that should live up to it's proclaimed standard, not only in sound quality but also in usability.

I use the latest eLicense version on Snow Leopard and I'm still getting the same problems that I had under Leopard. That nice BLANK alert window that something went wrong. Did I mention that that alert window popped up behind other windows so I don't find out after 10 munites and getting suspicious. (note to Developer, the Mac has a feature called "bouncing dock icon" that gets your attention, or how about let the crashed app send me a twitter note that it needs my attention, or anything)
In my opinion (cm, just to let you know, I'm not a programmer) the VSL authorization process causes the crash (Problem 1), but now the buggy eLicense software (Problem 2), draws an empty window on the screen that can not be removed  nor can it be force quit, You have to restart your machine, reloading all the other stuff what I had in Memory. It seems that the Syncrosoft engineers are violating basic OSX programming rules the same way VSL is doing that with the VI plugin, that doesn't follow Apple GUI Guidelines.

Conclusion:
1) VSL, get rid of that paranoid re-authorization process
2) Syncrosoft, check with VSL to make your product fully compatible with their paranoid re-authorization process

And BTW, just because a problem doesn't happen all the time, doesn't mean that it's not there