Originally Posted by: synergy543

Yes, I agree these are really terrific demonstrations and extremely informative.  The Octopus video in particular is quite amazing and my favorite.  Guy shows enough details of controllers and various parameters that you get a really good sense of how he creates his magic.

Agreed, just wow. Thanks Guy!

Originally Posted by: stephen limbaugh

Re RichHickey

Say a trumpet player has a C5 to D5 trill.  An open to first valve trill.

Is the same amount of air used on each of those notes?

Look, if you want to shape every note of a trill nothing about this feature existing will stop you - simply don't use it.

OTOH the lack of this feature stops every keyboardist who has ever played a monosynth or software VI, including VSL's VI Pro, from using a common technique.

Originally Posted by: stephen limbaugh

Originally Posted by: herb

Hi V ad im

holding one key permanently is not recommended, also not in VI.
The performance trills are based on multiple variations of the same interval samples, and holding one key permanently will trigger always the same interval sample in one direction. The other key which is performed will trigger the variations. So depending which key you have fixed either all up or all down intervalsamples are not altered. So a real performed trill on a keyboard will offer the best results.

best
Herb

To expand on Maestro Herb's post here, I would add that sometimes the holding down the lower note of the trill may appear to render a more even-sounding trill, but it is in fact less realistic AND less flexible than playing a well-performed trill.  Yes it might sound more even (a good thing) but it sacrifices some key elements.

My unsolicited advice:

A well-performed trill should have some shape to it, meaning that there are (for lack of a better term) micro crescendos within a turn or trill that help propell the phrase (unless of course, it is a purposefully marked/intended decrescendo).  That crescendo usually comes from the lower note more so than the upper!  So, you want to have those repeated lower notes, each with a slightly different "feel" or "landing" to them which would mimic a professional playing a nice, tight trill.

Another tip is temporarily taking your tempo to larghissimo, zooming in on your trill, and seeing which notes make it sound like a dotted rhythm, adjust the midi, then put the tempo back where it was.  That might help smooth things out.

Or, if you are using VI Pro, the APP Sequencer has preprogramed trills!  These are GREAT!  So if someone can't play a super tight trill, in the APP Sequencer in VI Pro you could trigger a super tight trill with your toe... or nose... or... what ever appendage isn't in use at that moment. 

EDIT: also implement humanize like William said!

This remains a key stumbling point with Synchron player for me and others - the performance trills are not playable as they were in VI Pro.

I think both pieces of advice above are simply wrong. Herb made a product that had trill retriggering, then 'improved' it by removing it. Whether or not the same sample gets triggered is a (changeable) property of how the software works. And the idea above of a 'real performed trill' on an electronic keyboard is too narrow and inflexible.

A piano (and marimba/vibes etc) performs trills as decribed. And when triggering a piano/vibe/marimba sample no keyboardist would leave the lower finger down - they would rearticulate.

But almost all of the other instruments we are trying to perform with samples do not articulate each note of a trill. On a wind instrument you hold down some keys for the lower note, then add and remove the key for the higher note while blowing continuously. On a stringed instrument you leave your finger down for the lower note and then add and remove the finger for the higher note while bowing continuously. There is no such thing as 'landing' the lower note - the finger(s) for it remain down.

Legato retriggering for playing trills is a standard keyboard (not piano) technique as old as using electronic keyboards for non-piano sounds (e.g. monophonic synths emulating winds and strings). You are essentially taking away a performance technique that many electronic and computer keyboardists have honed for decades. When emulating winds and strings, performing trills by leaving the lower note down yields a much more realistic sounding performance.

Please stop the rationalization and fix this (make it an option for those that want the 'new improved' way).

Thanks,

Your customer

Originally Posted by: ddunn

I've got a template set up for the full sections, works great.  My template is quite a bit different than the factory set up.  I need to make the divisi sections now and I trying to find the best way.  It seems the easiest way would be to mute players in the mixer, but I'm concerned that I'll still be streaming voices that are muted.  I looked at the "Delete all slots containing missing patches" in the sub-menu, but can quite figure it out.

Suggestions?

Thanks

I think if, rather than mute, you deactivate the players (by clicking on their names at the bottom of the mixer, like you would to deactivate the reverb) that saves voices/samples and other resources, but I would love a confirmation. That's what I do (use an all-player patch and deactivate players).

Originally Posted by: Seventh Sam

Do you work with REAPER as your DAW?  If so, the Reaticulate script does exactly what you're talking about and more. 

I don't use Reaper as my DAW, but I do use several other MIDI scripting tools like Logic's Scripter, BlueCat Plug'nScript, Bidule etc. In fact, I always have to use them with VI Pro in order to get it to do what I need.

But Synchron Player is new and they are still working on this next generation dimensional control scheme. I'd love for it to be more flexible and powerful, and thus require less or no scripting. Discrete treatment of certain/selected CCs is a generally useful capability. UACC's CC32 usage hinted at this but was obviously too specific to Spitfire (and broken by Kontakt's broken handling of CCs).

Tools like Reaticulate and Scripter are cool, but non-portable. And DAWs and notation programs have vastly different levels of support for VST/AU MIDI insert plugins.

VST/AU MIDI insert plugins (or integrated Lua MIDI scripting) would have been a great feature for VEP7, but alas they didn't take my suggestion :)

Feature request - support Bank Select (CC0/CC32) as discrete dimension selectors

Synchron player is fun, but it seems like the control system is entirely too much optimized for humans fiddling with faders and keyswitches, i.e. live performance and recordings thereof.

Sequencing with SP, and especially doing notation expression maps, is a bear. A key problem is that several common dimensions (esp Articulation and Type) are logically discrete, not continuous. But the CC mapping system is only continuous, and is terrible at e.g. mapping a CC to a dimension with 7 values. How does that split up? We can't see, need to do math etc. Several people have asked for the discrete, settable CC splits we had in VIPro, but that can't work because the same CC is used for different counts (e.g. one articulation has 5 types, another has 7 types, another has 3 types, and they all must share a controller). Furthermore, if you do figure out how 128 divides by five, and later add another slot, all the numbers realign and your maps break.

Keyswitches are discrete, but they don't chase, pollute scores and pianos rolls etc. I want nothing to do with them. (If you like them fine, please don't fill this discussion with your thoughts on their superiority, this feature is for people that don't want to use keyswitches).

That leaves only program change as a discrete, chase-able dimension selector, and support for PC from hosts is mixed (looking at you Cubase/Dorico).

However, the MIDI spec clearly indicates that Bank Select CC0 (and its LSB partner, CC32) are intended for discrete control - selecting particular patches via particular values. I recommend you support CC0/32 as discrete selectors for dimensions.

What does that mean? It means if a dimension is assigned CC0, then CC0 value 0 selects the first slot (no matter how many there are), and CC0 value 1 selects the second slot etc. Ditto CC32. In this way everything is predictable, adding a slot doesn't break anything, accommodating different numbers of children for the artics is not a problem etc. There's no awkward math. And they'll chase. And they are well supported.

Yes, these won't work great with faders - but there are plenty of other CCs available. CC0/32 were never intended for faders/wheels etc. They were in fact intended for exactly the same problem as selecting Articulation+Type.

Adopting Bank Select (CC0/32) as discrete in addition to PC will give us 3 chase-able discrete controllers and greatly facilitate the creation of robust expression maps for sequencing and notation.

Please consider.

Thanks,

Rich

Regardless as to arguments about what is right or best or whatever, like the OP I find the difference here to be a loss of useful functionality and would appreciate an option to restore that behavior.

Dear VSL,

I (and I imagine many others) would gladly pay for an update to VI-Pro that offered even a single larger UI option, never mind scalability.

It has been repeatedly requested and, no, synchron player is not a viable alternative for those of us with an investment in VI Pro configurations.

Originally Posted by: Dewdman42

Thanks a lot for pointing out this approach.  I would like to suggestion a feature for MIR PRO would be that in the VEP version of the MIRPRO plugin, it would be nice to have an option in there that can consolidate MIR across instances into one stage...so that we can get the VEP integration to detect and load instrument setups into MIR, which is extremely time saving...but with LPX we pretty much always have ot use multiple VEP instances...so its a bit of an ironic dilema.  If the built in VEP MIR plugin could also consolidate like the AU/VST version...that would be supremely helpful.

+1 - this would be a sensible and desirable feature

Please add a MIDI scripting feature to VEPro. Something akin to Logic's Scripter (i.e. at least the power of JavaScript or Lua). UI support would be nice, but not necessary.

Without this we must continually resort to host-specific scripting - Logic Scripter, MIDI FX transformers, Bidule, Blue Cat, notation software rules etc. VE Pro can't even host these as MIDI FX.

The VIs hosted by VE Pro, including VSL's, simply need scripting far too often for it not to be included in VE Pro, the premium VI host. It would be a killer feature.

Thanks for your consideration!

Originally Posted by: kenneth.newby

Hi Paul,

I purchased the extended Dimension Brass I package, as well as the Dimension Brass II Full libraries.  Latest elicenser, download and directory managers. After downloading the installation files and installing I find that, while the Dim. Brass II patches are all there, I cannot get VIP to see the extensions for the Dimension Brass I collection.  

I've reinstalled the Dim. Brass I extension files again, tried the Directory Manager delete-all-drag-back trick. Nothing seems to work.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Kenneth.

I had the same problem until I updated to the latest VI Pro player.

Thanks for posting that rendition. It was interesting and illustrative.

Originally Posted by: William

I know the Synchron series/player is great, but I hope VSL continues recording more VI instruments with the perfected techniques of VI. 

I wonder if other composers/performers here think the same? Please write in here to MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD! 

I was thinking the other day how VI-VE-MIR are some of the most perfect software of any kind I have ever used.  VI allows control of every possible MIDI parameter down to the patch level and if one makes a template, there is no extra work or labor afterwards.  And MIR is a brilliantly designed, elegant masterpiece that was like a dream come true for me - to get such a variety of awesome sounds so easily, just like arranging musicians on a stage. 

What would be beyond awesome is another set of Dimension Strings samples to add less used but important articulations - yes I know that was grueling to create, but it is the most remarkable sample library ever created and worth it!  

Also to sample some more ethnic/unusual/historic instruments in addtion to the ones already done.  For example - there are no sackbuts!  You HAVE to have sackbuts for Renaissance/medieval !  And a historic percussion group would be essential also - if you are doing some ancient music and you naturally want percussion - what do you do now?  Modern cymbals/bells/drums? 

So there are (as I am sure VSL knows) a good number of instruments that NEED to be sampled and to be compatible with the vast, incredibly powerful VI instruments that already exist. 

We need picket lines formed outside the VSL studios, with people blocking traffic, carrying signs, staging sit-ins and chanting...

MORE VI !  MORE VI !  

Yes please - more VIs, more MIR rooms, VI Pro UI size increase and features and especially more Dimension Strings!!!

Originally Posted by: Dormusic

Originally Posted by: richhickey

Originally Posted by: Dormusic

Can I use MIDI INSERT EFFECTS WITHIN VEPro, for ex. an arpeggiator?

I don't think so, but I would really like this also, +1

I often need to use something like Logic's Scripter or Plogue Bidule to massage/transform the MIDI that goes to VI Pro, and I can't do that in VE Pro, where it would make more sense and be more DAW-independent.

Funny you should say that actually, I am a Bidule user that just bought VE Pro with intention to switch to it instead. Sick of unstable-ness of Bidule.

Well, there are two jobs. For hosting the VI Pro instances, VE Pro is certainly richer and better integrated. If however VE Pro did have MIDI plugin support, for the scripting I need to do I'd still be looking at using Bidule or maybe Blue Cat Plug'n Script inside VE Pro.

Currently I am sometimes driven to using Bidule to host VI Pro instances, even though I own VE Pro, because I need MIDI plugin/transform support.

Originally Posted by: Dormusic

Can I use MIDI INSERT EFFECTS WITHIN VEPro, for ex. an arpeggiator?

I don't think so, but I would really like this also, +1

I often need to use something like Logic's Scripter or Plogue Bidule to massage/transform the MIDI that goes to VI Pro, and I can't do that in VE Pro, where it would make more sense and be more DAW-independent.

Originally Posted by: AlexanderEbel

Hallo VSL,

I was wondering since the Syncronized Version of Chamber Strings now has the Flautando Articulation previously only present in Orchestral and Solo Strings, will the "old" chamber Strings be updated to include those as well. Are these new recordings or did you do some magic to the old samples?

Just think this would be a nice upgrade for loyal customers!^^

There are several articulations that appear 'new':

sustained soft

flautando

legato soft

legato fast

portamento nonvib

sfz nonvib

fp nonvib

second violins

I would gladly pay for an update to Chamber Strings that included these.

Similarly if they have more content of any sort for Dimension Strings.

Originally Posted by: patmaddox

Well... then how do I set the velocity for mallet instruments when I play them, using a slider? For me it's natural to play with my right hand, and use my left hand to set the slider. So when I play a new note, it plays at the velocity that matches the slider's current setting.

Interestingly, I loaded the Bosendorfer and this is exactly how it behaves. Set the velocity XF slider to max, play a note, and slide it down while the note sustains, and play a new note. The first note is played loudly but the level doesn't change, and the second note plays softly.

I wonder what the difference is between how the Bosendorfer is configured and how the Vibraphone is? I'll take a closer look at it...

In the mean time, if anyone knows how to make Vibraphone respond same way as Bosendorfer, I'd really appreciate it.

I agree that vel-xfade should do velocity-only when dealing with samples that can only decay after the note is struck (like percussion and pizzicato). And what you want is perfectly valid, since faders/pedals can e.g. provide more consistent velocity than many keyboards and controllers, you may have developed performance skills/techniques having used your faders on other instruments etc. There should at least be a mode for this behavior.

In the meantime, I use a Bome MIDI Translator script to change my expression pedal's CC into velocity and replace the velocities on the notes coming from my Linnstrument (a great controller with not-great velocity sensitivity). Then I run VI Pro with vel xfade off. You can do this with other scripting tools too like Logic's Scripter MIDI effect. But it's a workaround for a missing feature IMO.

So I've been working on this 1-D X/Y addressing idea and at the same time working on a method for managing articulations in Digital Performer, which has no articulation support but has good MIDI patch change support (bank+program). This video demonstrates DP driving VEPro using only 1-D program change to choose cells in the matrix.

Of course another MIDI standard (and thus supported by DP in their notion of 'patch change') is Bank Change (CC0), and I hope to use that to switch matrices.

This method uses Bidule to implement the 1-D logic. It would be nice to have VI Pro support for 1-D, as well as the ability to turn off Program Change for matrix selection (I can't see how).

Originally Posted by: Ariam

How do you see it being implemented in notation software?

Well, you'd still have to use the articulation map system of the DAW or notation software, but at least you only have to map to a single message. Another big benefit is that, being independent of the X and Y assignments, you can change the X/Y controls (say if you get different hardware or want to experiment with another control scheme) without breaking your maps.

Also it would facilitate sharing those maps. Right now, if two users want different X/Y controls they can't share articulation/expression maps.

Originally Posted by: TFIS

You could use the matrix list + program change.

One could, but the point of this is that it could address almost all existing matrices. Also matrices are better for showing many items vs a long list. 

Finally, a big benefit of this is that, for any particular X/Y cell, the same number is used to select that cell regardless of the matrix dimensions. This would let us set up grid controllers like the launchpad/push/maschine-jam with a single configuration such that e.g. the button in the third column, second row always selects the corresponding matrix cell. This is not possible now.

The matrix system has many attributes for live control and dealing with the many articulations VSL provides. But it presents challenges for editing in a DAW, working with articulation/expression systems, controllers etc, as you have to coordinate more than one CC/KS to get a single articulation.

I propose adding a new feature to VI Pro player that lets you address the row+column of any matrix with a single CC/KS/program-change. This would be in addition to the current X and Y assignments and would enhance but not break any existing patch. Since the matrix system supports 12x12 matrices, you could support up to 120 cells (12x10) with a single CC/note/program range.

Here's how it would work:

• Add a new setting for a 1-D controller (CC or program change), with a non-conflicting default CC
• When received, the 10's part of its value would select the column (X), the 1's part the row (Y), of the current matrix.

So, for any matrix, the first row is 0/10/20/30...110 and the second is 1/11/21/31...111, the 10th 9/19/29/39...119. Some UI support for seeing the cell to 1-D-number relationship would be useful.

This would give you 1-D control over any existing matrix up to 12x10, and would not disrupt the existing X and Y assignments.

This would let us:

• Directly choose an articulation with a single gesture.
• Edit more easily in a DAW
• Use articulation systems that only support a single message (e.g. Logic)
• More easily use controllers that can't send two messages.
• Use program change (and names) in DAWs without articulation systems.
• etc

Thoughts?

I've made a dynamics control Scripter script for Logic and VSL VI Pro, described in detail here and now with a demonstration video 

and also a Logic articulation set for Dimension Strings with a corresponding helper script.

Both (free) can be found here

That was quite well done, and an excellent demonstration of the library. Thanks for posting it!

I must say I've found Synchronized Chamber Strings to be a very disappointing purchase, even at the 'prior owner of CS and Synchron Strings' price. When set side by side with the original chamber strings and all reverbs off, there is quite evident lack of clarity, phasing and other issues with the Synchronized samples, across all articulations.

Furthermore, the sustains etc sound 'blended' even when xfade is OFF in the Synchron player, which is not the case with the original chamber strings (or any VI series instruments) and the VI Pro player. It seems as if xfade only governs where the dynamic levels come from (keyboard or CC), and that mixing of samples is always occurring (i.e. synchronized CS with xfade OFF sounds like CS/VIPro with xfade ON). Perhaps this is being done to better match the greater number of dynamic levels in Synchron Strings.

It seems the purpose of these is to use a blended up version of chamber strings to cover up the shortcomings of Synchron Strings (another disappointing purchase). Unless you are looking to do that (which might be very effective), I do not recommend synchronized chamber strings. Stick with the original chamber strings, they're still great.